Newbie 1732 [Game Over!]: InnocentVille

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Post Post #450 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:17 pm

Post by 0x40 »

In post 448, implosion wrote:Yet again, you're taking a very black and white approach to things - not everyone has the time,
It's an 18-page thread. About an hour should be plenty of time. He has a little less than 48 hours.
motivation
If he's town, wanting get scum lynched and win the game would be plenty of motivation.
or attention span,
I don't think reading an 18-page thread once or twice requires that great of an attention span.
even as town, to re-read over a game several times. There are plenty of good players on this site who will replace into games and then not even read them because it's more productive to focus effort on deducing reads from actually interacting with players.

He literally made his first post 3 hours ago; only having reads on two players at that point is not a scumclaim.
I don't have much of a problem with him not having a read on everyone yet. He's scummy because he refuses to give any more reads at all, and his reasons are literally worse than thenewearth's reason for not wanting to give any townreads.
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Post Post #451 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:26 pm

Post by PenguinPower »

Claim and/or present an alternative wagon. Please do something other than tunneling someone else for little reason, especially someone who just came into the game. We are now less than 48 hours to deadline.
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Post Post #452 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:35 pm

Post by 0x40 »

In post 449, shannon wrote:1) Flips give info to scum, so if you're holding out and someone hammers you anyway, scum will know your role.
So? Like I said, I'll claim when I'm convinced I'll get lynched if I don't. If I claim and don't get lynched, that's just giving scum free info.
In post 449, shannon wrote:3)You haven't identified another candidate for scum. At least give us someone else to look at?
After Drone, next best lynch candidate is thenewearth, third best is Jibs, fourth, Chrimi.
I've made a case against Jibs and Chrimi, and the thenewearth case is similar to Drone in that she refuses to give reads, and has a really bad reason for it. Is there anything else I should clarify on my opinion on those three?
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Post Post #453 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:42 pm

Post by 0x40 »

In post 451, PenguinPower wrote:Claim and/or present an alternative wagon. Please do something other than tunneling someone else for little reason, especially someone who just came into the game. We are now less than 48 hours to deadline.
Reads are pretty much the only thing we can base our votes on. Someone refusing to provide reads, and giving obviously made-up reasons for not doing so, is a pretty good reason to lynch them I'd say.
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Post Post #454 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:56 pm

Post by 0x40 »

Drone's slot has also done some scummy things by the way of Rocnix literally copy-pasting someone's readlist and changing the wording a bit. Just compare her #161 to PenguinPower's #147. Order is identical, and reasons are the same but worded differently.
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Post Post #455 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:02 pm

Post by implosion »

0x, you have been asked to claim explicitly by more than half of the player list.

Claim in your next post, or I will hammer you.
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Post Post #456 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:03 pm

Post by implosion »

If you are town, you should recognize that stifling half of the player list from being able to do anything until you claim and possibly inviting a hammer without a claim is far more anti-town than letting the scum know what your role is.
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Post Post #457 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:54 pm

Post by innocentvillager »

Mod NotesAstralFlare's V/LA just ended, and will be prodded if he does not post within 24 hours.


VOTECOUNT 1.6
Player
Being voted by (in chronological order)
Number of Votes
1. Jibs
2. AstralFlare Chrimi
1
3. PenguinPower implosion
1
4. 0x40 thenewearth, PenguinPower, Jibs, shannon
4 (L-1)!!
5. Drone 0x40
1
6. Chrimi
7. thenewearth AstralFlare, Rocnix
2
8. shannon
9. implosion


Not voting:

Deadline to lynch is in (expired on 2016-08-21 21:23:28).

With 9 eligible to vote, it's 5 to lynch

Please let me know if there are errors in the VC, or have any other questions in general. Don't forget to bold such requests to me.
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Post Post #458 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:08 pm

Post by thenewearth »

*4) If he's scum he's WIFOM'ing everyone
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Post Post #459 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:09 pm

Post by thenewearth »

In post 449, shannon wrote:I am not very impressed with 0x40's reason for not claiming. I'm referring to this - "Of course I want to hide my role. I want this day to end with scum having as little information about who the prs are as possible, and unless I'm convinced I'm getting lynched if I don't, I'm not claiming."

0x40, here are the problems with this, for me:

1) Flips give info to scum, so if you're holding out and someone hammers you anyway, scum will know your role.
2) If you were going to claim a PR and are trying to avoid it, 1) happening is really bad because it doesn't give any other town PRs the chance to save you.
3)You haven't identified another candidate for scum. At least give us someone else to look at?
Whoops ^
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Post Post #460 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:10 pm

Post by thenewearth »

In post 452, 0x40 wrote:After Drone, next best lynch candidate is thenewearth, third best is Jibs, fourth, Chrimi.
I've made a case against Jibs and Chrimi, and the thenewearth case is similar to Drone in that she refuses to give reads, and has a really bad reason for it. Is there anything else I should clarify on my opinion on those three?
You have very week cases though :/
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Post Post #461 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:31 pm

Post by shannon »

Yeah, please clarify why you've got four candidates there? Drone, TNE, Jibs, Chrimi. You've made cases on 3 and 4 you say, then there's Drone (a new case, I don't get how the new player is the scummiest for not giving reads, scummier than three existing players who you've already cased?
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Post Post #462 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:16 am

Post by 0x40 »

In post 461, shannon wrote:Yeah, please clarify why you've got four candidates there? Drone, TNE, Jibs, Chrimi. You've made cases on 3 and 4 you say, then there's Drone (a new case, I don't get how the new player is the scummiest for not giving reads, scummier than three existing players who you've already cased?
Drone is scummy because of refusing to give reads, and giving bullshit reasons for not doing so. Rocnix was scummy for copy-pasting PenguinPower's readlist and using her as her own, and doing pretty much nothing but echoing things other people have said, despite having experience playing mafia before. (#31)
In post 460, thenewearth wrote:You have very week cases though :/
Weaker than the pretty much nonexistent case on me?
In post 455, implosion wrote:0x, you have been asked to claim explicitly by more than half of the player list.

Claim in your next post, or I will hammer you.
Alright.
Claim: vt
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Post Post #463 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:34 am

Post by Chrimi »

In post 462, 0x40 wrote:
Claim: vt
VOTE: 0x40

Crossing my fingers, boys and girls.
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Post Post #464 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:39 am

Post by implosion »

I'd say this was a somewhat typical d1 I think. We had a variety of wagons that rose and fell and ultimately got probably a good amount of information out of peoples' opinions and voting patterns. If you're town, don't worry too much if we hit town with the lynch; d1 is always the most difficult day to hit scum in because we have no information from either flips or night actions, and relatively little from peoples' actions.

Day one is really more about feeling the game out a lot of the time, so also don't worry if you feel like there's a lot of information to parse through.




I'm pretty fine with that hammer. In a sense it's somewhat disconcerting that so many people were willing to push 0x but ultimately it wouldn't surprise me if he is scum and someone was bussing him, particularly late on the wagon once it became clearer that he was gonna be the lynch over tne. Once we have his flip and a nightkill to go off of, we should be able to get more traction.
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Post Post #465 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:22 pm

Post by shannon »

Given that pretty much everyone either voted or stated intent to hammer, it's pretty safe to say there was scum
Involvement.

If you are a town pr, this is the time to think about your night action. If you have a protective role, try to use it on someone you think is a PR. If you don't have any idea about other PRs, target someone you think is town. But please prioritise suspected PRs first. (I say this as someone who was once killed the same night I would have got a result on scum, because the doc protected her favourite town player instead of me).

If you have an investigative role, please target someone in your 'dunno' zone. Not someone you think is definite scum or town, but someone you're unsure of. The aim is to get as much info as possible.
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Post Post #466 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:26 pm

Post by thenewearth »

Shannon its posts like that that make me think you're 1000% scum :/
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Post Post #467 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:30 pm

Post by Chrimi »

In post 465, shannon wrote:If you have an investigative role, please target someone in your 'dunno' zone. Not someone you think is definite scum or town, but someone you're unsure of. The aim is to get as much info as possible.
Disagree.

Investigate someone you think is definite town, that way you don't waste tomorrow tunneling them, thanks.
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Post Post #468 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:30 pm

Post by Chrimi »

EBWOP: definite scum**
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Post Post #469 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:34 pm

Post by implosion »

In post 465, shannon wrote:If you are a town pr, this is the time to think about your night action. If you have a protective role, try to use it on someone you think is a PR. If you don't have any idea about other PRs, target someone you think is town. But please prioritise suspected PRs first. (I say this as someone who was once killed the same night I would have got a result on scum, because the doc protected her favourite town player instead of me).
This is a philosophy I tend to disagree with; it's typically good town play as a PR to not make it clear that you're a PR so that scum won't target you, so theoretically if a PR is playing well another PR won't be able to figure out who they are.

Additionally a lot of tells that look PR-ish are often similar to tells that look scummy (flying under the radar, etc) so you might wind up protecting scum.

A protective role (well, a doctor) should try to predict who the scum are going to kill and target that player. Because otherwise their role doesn't do anything. A cop or tracker can pretty much do whatever they want, investigating someone they're unsure of is fine but I think investigating a scumread is also perfectly fine; it's a scumread for a cop but not for everyone, and getting a guilty means that there's no more uncertainty. A jailkeeper, which is the only other PR we can have in this setup, will typically attempt to target scum for a few reasons: it's easier to figure out who's scum than it is to figure out who scum are going to kill a lot of the time, it serves as a pseudo-guilty if you target someone who was unlikely to have been the nightkill, and targeting town has the risk of blocking a power role (although the last reason doesn't matter in this setup because jailkeeper will never exist with another active power role).
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Post Post #470 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:03 pm

Post by Jibs »

Hello all.

I agree with and I have no idea what implosion is trying to crumb in .

This is my last post. I can't keep playing this game--it's too stressful, and I haven't been able to sleep enough or get much done while I've been playing. I feel bad about quitting, but I really need to be selfish on this one. Sorry.

To everyone playing, thank you for the good times.

TO MY REPLACEMENT:
Good luck, and pay attention to all of the cryptic stuff that isn't in this game.
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Post Post #471 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:05 pm

Post by Chrimi »

In post 470, Jibs wrote:Hello all.

I agree with and I have no idea what implosion is trying to crumb in .

This is my last post. I can't keep playing this game--it's too stressful, and I haven't been able to sleep enough or get much done while I've been playing. I feel bad about quitting, but I really need to be selfish on this one. Sorry.

To everyone playing, thank you for the good times.

TO MY REPLACEMENT:
Good luck, and pay attention to all of the cryptic stuff that isn't in this game.
See you, Jibs! Thank you for playing!
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Post Post #472 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:11 pm

Post by shannon »

In post 466, thenewearth wrote:Shannon its posts like that that make me think you're 1000% scum :/

Because you disagree with my recommendations, or because I posted at all? I see a few others have now added their own advice, which may be better or worse than mine (likely better, they've got more experience), so I'm sure our PRs will take that in to account.

Jibs, sorry to see you go. I don't know whether Implosion was crumbing anything TBH, and if there's cryptic stuff going on it's going over my head. That's part of why I am playing mafia, I am trying to learn not to take everything literally, and not to speak so forthrightly.
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Post Post #473 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:50 pm

Post by thenewearth »

Nah its because that post was almost either

role fishing, LAMIST post, PR controlling

All 3 points are scummy
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Post Post #474 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2016 6:18 pm

Post by Drone »

In the end, the day ends up with what appears to be a policy lynch.
In day 2 we'll have a bit more information, and less distractions.
In my honest opinion, 0x40's lynch will save us distractions and blatant attacks based on personal disagreement.

As for Shannon's "advice", while I mostly agree with her it is most important to me to state that such thought should be kept to yourself and hope that the one you're trying to address would take what you said as common logic.

I myself took what you said as an attempt to role fish or even hint your own role a little. While I don't find this scummy much, it was rather wrong to come out like that.

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