Newbie 1728: Training Your Dragon Mafia [Game Over]

[Vedith]

1 - Distancing from HipLop
2 - I never had him as town day 2 - 588

A roleblock on you does not confirm.
The only way it can confirm is if a cop returns a no result, a kill goes through on someone who is docced or if a tracker gets a no result.
I don't believe a jailkeeper can be blocked, but don't quote me on that part.

[Vedith]

It may give influence, but just to point out, it's very WIFOM-y and should be disregarded immediately as an argument.

Of course it will give influence. It helps provides fake claims in Lylo. I'm not even sure what you are arguing here, I am explaining what possible outcomes there are and pointing out that people claiming that scum knew Maverick was cop are most likely wrong, or to at least explain it further so I can see what they are saying.
As I said, I understand you are new, but I don't understand how you don't understand this.

All the information I gave it to take into Lylo if I am lynched. Why do you have an issue with my pointing out additional information for town to work with?

[Vaxkiller]

1 - Distancing from HipLop
2 - I never had him as town day 2 - 588

That's where I'm confused. You thought we were both scum, and our grand plan was to vote and go after each other on day 2???

Also you thought I was likely scum because you KNEW hiplop was scum? Why go after me first then? When one of your reasons for someone being scum relies on another person being scum, don't you go after the first person?

[Vedith]

That's where I'm confused. You thought we were both scum, and our grand plan was to vote and go after each other on day 2???

Also you thought I was likely scum because you KNEW hiplop was scum? Why go after me first then? When one of your reasons for someone being scum relies on another person being scum, don't you go after the first person?

At the time of my comment, he wasn't voting you.
You were voting him. That's considered bussing if it's from 2 scum reads.

Wait, I didn't say you knew he was scum on my reads. I said you were bussing him (which yeah, if you're scum, you know if he is or isn't).

If you want to go by my reads later in the day, you was saying that I am scum with HipLop because I was voting HipLop on opportunity. I already pointed out that this made no sense.
Then you started to say it was HipLop IV, then HipLop, me and IV.

Not once did you have a consistent read.
Where then yeah, I started to town read HipLop

[Vedith]

As I said, you aren't going to be a lynch today, but in no way are you confirmed in Lylo.

[RyanK]

It may give influence, but just to point out, it's very WIFOM-y and should be disregarded immediately as an argument.

Of course it will give influence. It helps provides fake claims in Lylo. I'm not even sure what you are arguing here, I am explaining what possible outcomes there are and pointing out that people claiming that scum knew Maverick was cop are most likely wrong, or to at least explain it further so I can see what they are saying.
As I said, I understand you are new, but I don't understand how you don't understand this.

All the information I gave it to take into Lylo if I am lynched. Why do you have an issue with my pointing out additional information for town to work with?

And considering how WIFOM-y the information is, how is it beneficial?

[RyanK]

It may give influence, but just to point out, it's very WIFOM-y and should be disregarded immediately as an argument.

Of course it will give influence. It helps provides fake claims in Lylo. I'm not even sure what you are arguing here, I am explaining what possible outcomes there are and pointing out that people claiming that scum knew Maverick was cop are most likely wrong, or to at least explain it further so I can see what they are saying.
As I said, I understand you are new, but I don't understand how you don't understand this.

All the information I gave it to take into Lylo if I am lynched. Why do you have an issue with my pointing out additional information for town to work with?

Also, wouldn't this give the scum enough information to convincingly fake claim?

[Vedith]

I hate when people use these stupid terms means I have to google.
-After googling, I don't get where you are at with this.

The information is very beneficial.
(Example) If for some strange reason I was lynched and IV was killed (or the other way around), that would leave you, Reso and Vax. (Obviously it won't now, because I had to spell it out)
Okay, so now what - What do you have to go with? Lets lynch with a guess? Or actually, lets think back a second, who was trying to say they saw a cop crumb?

(Example)Go into the next day - No kill - Why no kill, why is there 4 people alive? Well it doesn't matter that town can have a doc, because we don't need to know that kind of information. Lets go with scum not killing because not knowing the facts isn't needed.

Do you see where I'm going with this.

Again - Why are you against town having this extra information and opinion - Why are you against this? You didn't answer me first time.

[Vedith]

Also, wouldn't this give the scum enough information to convincingly fake claim?

Scum already know!
Scum know if there is a doctor or not, scum know if there is a RB or not - SCUM WILL KNOW TO EITHER CLAIM OR NOT CLAIM.
Use your fucking head for two seconds and actually read what I am putting.

[RyanK]

Also, wouldn't this give the scum enough information to convincingly fake claim?

Scum already know!
Scum know if there is a doctor or not, scum know if there is a RB or not - SCUM WILL KNOW TO EITHER CLAIM OR NOT CLAIM.
Use your fucking head for two seconds and actually read what I am putting.

I forgot that the scum already knows which setup we're playing.

I hate when people use these stupid terms means I have to google.
-After googling, I don't get where you are at with this.

The information is very beneficial.
(Example) If for some strange reason I was lynched and IV was killed (or the other way around), that would leave you, Reso and Vax. (Obviously it won't now, because I had to spell it out)
Okay, so now what - What do you have to go with? Lets lynch with a guess? Or actually, lets think back a second, who was trying to say they saw a cop crumb?

(Example)Go into the next day - No kill - Why no kill, why is there 4 people alive? Well it doesn't matter that town can have a doc, because we don't need to know that kind of information. Lets go with scum not killing because not knowing the facts isn't needed.

Do you see where I'm going with this.

Again - Why are you against town having this extra information and opinion - Why are you against this? You didn't answer me first time.

I'm fine with us having this information. Just that I don't understand what is the use of it. Maybe it's useful to the others, but not to me.

[innocentvillager]

Please explain why you have a townread on reso and a scum read on Vedith. It's going to be really useful.

Reso's thought process is super transparent and it's clear he's genuinely trying to solve the game, like you

Also that hammer on hiplop over Vax basically confirms him as town (otherwise it's a great scumplay, but very unlikely).

Vedith is scum by PoE since everyone else is clearly town.

[innocentvillager]

I mentioned other points for Vedith earlier, like how on Day 2, scum is very very likely on the Vax wagon over the hiplop wagon, esp when both are at L-1. Those people were me, Vedith, and hiplop. Scum is in here.

Rusty's terrible hammer in the beginning was almost a newbscum claim but not quite. Seemed like trolling newbscum.

[innocentvillager]

It's very simple. Lynch me and Vedith and win.

If you're town, you know for a fact this is a terrible comment.

If I'm lynched today and then you are tomorrow and you're town, then do we put the lose purely down to this thought process?

Even if either of us are the lynch tomorrow, it should be no way the certain lynch and all people alive need to be considered.
No one is confirmed unless 1 - Mod confirms it 2 - They have died and flipped

Lol now you're just desperate to avoid getting lynched. You know that once this goes through, you're screwed.

And if RyanK or reso is the last scum we were never winning this anyway, and if Vax is scum we'll blame Mav postgame.

REgardless, it's clear you and I are the lynches no matter what perspective you look at it from. It's just a matter of order.

[Vedith]

Lol now you're just desperate to avoid getting lynched. You know that once this goes through, you're screwed.

I'm not actually commenting on my lynch I'm commenting on having the game resolved if I am lynched. If you're town, you should be doing that too.

[Firebringer]

Dragon Training Tip 26. Directions. The key to flying and getting directions is kind of hard. Well, you can't just roll up to the nearest dragon rider and asking for directions. You are going to fast and the wind makes it hard to talk to them. Instead, just follow the dragon rider in front of you. They know where they are going. If not, then when they stop, ask for directions. Unless they too are lost.

Vote Count 3.01

Reso (L-3):
Vedith (L-1): Reso, innocentvillager,
Vaxkiller(L-3):
RyanK (L-3):
innocentvillager (L-1): RyanK, Vedith,

Not Voting (1): Vaxkiller,


With 5 Alive, It Takes 3 to Lynch

Day 3 Ends In (expired on 2016-08-31 02:00:00)

[RyanK]

I don't have anything to say about your theories. They seem flawless. If someone spot something that would flaw the theory, please post it.

[reso]

Now, I didn't like Vax day one, that's why I thought he was scum day 2. At first I felt that his vote on HipLop was fake. 589 is the post from Maverick which clears Vax knowing his align, not the post of not hammering him.

How exactly is Maverick's #589 the post that clears up Vax's alignment? I more or less imply the same thing at the end of my #585.

So for all we know, Maverick could have been roleblocked night 1. I see no indication to this, and if he was but hasn't hinted, that will be upsetting.

I think that Maverick was killed instead of someone like Reso or Vax because there is a town doc, meaning also a roleblocker (Scum wouldn't have known town doc,

but with HipLop's knowledge, he would have though about this and most likely told his partner that the odds were there

)

. I don't see Maverick hinting at being cop at all so I'm sure how scum would pick up on that, so to me he looked the safer night kill (without taking the 1 shot Bulletproof into the situation).

This entire section is interesting to me. Just right before, you present the fact that we are left with two possible set-ups with Maverick flipping cop. But immediately afterward, from the way you talk in these two paragraphs, you've clearly made up your mind that we are in Setup 2 (funnily enough, I was referring to the matrix in the first page, but it totally works here as well). What proof do we really have that we are of Setup 2? The only people that can talk like that are the other two power roles in this game, and not a VT like you stated you are.

Let's talked about the bolded next. Why is it upsetting that if Maverick was blocked, he didn't hint that was blocked? This is just me putting on the shoes of a cop, but I would have just kept my mouth shut and hopefully the scum would think they hit the wrong target and move their roleblocking skill to someone else. The only people that would be upset at a cop that revealed himself by hinting that he was blocked would be scum because everyone other townie would just continue to be none the wiser about the setup.

I don't even understand what you're saying in the italicized section. How exactly does Maverick's death and the survival of Vax and I reveal that there is a doctor? From my understanding of the Doctor role, it isn't a driver role. If the scum targeted me, the kill wouldn't go from me to Maverick. I would just stay alive through the kill. And this is also assuming that there is only one night kill available to the Mafia every night for the Matrix6 setup (please correct me if I'm wrong).

And that logic of the underlined section. I don't even. The scum knew right from the start what 2 setups they were possibly dealing with. What odds were there to discuss? It's always been 50/50 for scum until Maverick revealed. There were no odds being possibly leveraged by anything.

Do you agree that my theory with the RB and Doc makes sense here?

That would be a resounding no, sir.

[Vedith]

@Reso - Did you miss the part that this is only for if I'm lynched? I'm not sure why anyone has an issue with receiving facts. I've not once said or even implied to use it as reasoning to vote or not vote me today.
You're not cop, so I don't see why your 585 post would matter. To confirm, as you missed it, Maverick was cop - He basically cleared Vax straight off the bat.

Why should he not crumb at being blocked? Because now it gives the town an impression that Vax is cleared town. If he isn't, that's really bad for town.
A crumb as cop can be as simple as, "I'm struggling with who's town or scum in this game" - It gives nothing away until you flip but says that you have no town or scum confirms.
I've not been in the mindset of which option it is. The difference is option 1 we have nothing to go by, meaning no reviewing to be done, either everyone is a goon or VT.
Option 2 it gives us possibilities to review, which guess what - Adds to power roles! (OMG SHOCK HORROR)

I'm not sure how to dumb it down any more for people to understand.

The italic part has nothing to do with any deaths - As it says in the comment, it has 100% about HipLop and his partner. I suggest you re read.
I don'tr get what you mean by what odds were to discuss - The odds town having a doc or not. And discussing the odds of hitting certain players going by this information. - I can tell that you are very knew to not understand this, but I suggest you re read the setup.

Okay, so explain why you don't that there is a RB/ Doc, or why the kill on X40 Maverick doesn't point to that?
Do you honestly think that X40 was the strongest kill for scum night 1, and Maverick was the strongest kill on night 2?
If so, explain why.

[RyanK]

@Reso - Did you miss the part that this is only for if I'm lynched? I'm not sure why anyone has an issue with receiving facts. I've not once said or even implied to use it as reasoning to vote or not vote me today.
You're not cop, so I don't see why your 585 post would matter. To confirm, as you missed it, Maverick was cop - He basically cleared Vax straight off the bat.

Why should he not crumb at being blocked? Because now it gives the town an impression that Vax is cleared town. If he isn't, that's really bad for town.
A crumb as cop can be as simple as, "I'm struggling with who's town or scum in this game" - It gives nothing away until you flip but says that you have no town or scum confirms.
I've not been in the mindset of which option it is. The difference is option 1 we have nothing to go by, meaning no reviewing to be done, either everyone is a goon or VT.
Option 2 it gives us possibilities to review, which guess what - Adds to power roles! (OMG SHOCK HORROR)

I'm not sure how to dumb it down any more for people to understand.

The italic part has nothing to do with any deaths - As it says in the comment, it has 100% about HipLop and his partner. I suggest you re read.
I don'tr get what you mean by what odds were to discuss - The odds town having a doc or not. And discussing the odds of hitting certain players going by this information. - I can tell that you are very knew to not understand this, but I suggest you re read the setup.

Okay, so explain why you don't that there is a RB/ Doc, or why the kill on X40 Maverick doesn't point to that?
Do you honestly think that X40 was the strongest kill for scum night 1, and Maverick was the strongest kill on night 2?
If so, explain why.

I guess we've had enough talk on setups. Don't you all have any leads?

[RyanK]

EBWOP: We should strengthen the reads.

[Vedith]

I guess we've had enough talk on setups. Don't you all have any leads?

I've already gone through this.
There's nothing else to say on IV which hasn't already been said. He was basically not in the game yesterday apart from saying HipLop was town, apart from that I don't know what else I have on him other than POE.

[RyanK]

I have no conviction Vedith or innocentvillager is scum. Should I trust PoE?

[Vedith]

I have no conviction Vedith or innocentvillager is scum. Should I trust PoE?

Possibly.
I'd say take more consideration in LyLo though if it gets to that.

[Vaxkiller]

I have no conviction Vedith or innocentvillager is scum. Should I trust PoE?

Who do you think the scum is then?

[reso]

Okay, so explain why you don't that there is a RB/ Doc, or why the kill on X40 Maverick doesn't point to that?
Do you honestly think that X40 was the strongest kill for scum night 1, and Maverick was the strongest kill on night 2?
If so, explain why.

It's the fact that there was a kill on 0x40 and Maverick that doesn't point to us having a doctor/roleblocker. There were zero nights where the person chosen for the nightkill survived (and even if there was, it would be impossible to prove the set-up with that as well because in either set-up, mafia can just choose to No Kill). There hasn't been any conclusive proof than anyone was doctored or roleblocked. I'm not saying that we're in a cop-only setup either. I'm just saying we don't have the evidence to prove we have one setup rather than the other. The fact that you're so pushy about us being in the doctor/roleblocker setup implies to me that you have knowledge that we/I don't have access to, meaning you could be one of the power roles of your suggested set-up.

Putting on my scum perspective glasses, I do think that 0x40 and Mavverick were the best kills for their respective nights. Let's talk about Day 1 first. No one in the Phantom wagon was going to be nightkilled because everyone on that wagon would be under scrutiny the following day. So that leaves us with Vax and I left. At the end of Day 1, I left a bad impression on myself with many people, and I also said something on the lines of 'I don't have a list of scum suspects, but rather a list of offenses', so there wasn't anyone in particular that I was gunning for. 0x40 on the other hand spent the majority of Day 1 gunning after Vaxkiller, so if 0x40 was nightkilled, it would have been an easy way to put pressure onto Vaxkiller.

The Maverick nightkill still makes sense to me because I still think his #775/776 look like softclaims. Why let someone who can affiliation scan run amok over two people that people perceive (and not know for sure) as super townie?