Newbie 1732 [Game Over!]: InnocentVille

[AstralFlare]

PEdit:

Just saw Astral Flare's post pop up ahead of me hitting this one, and he's voted PP. I'm going to post my ISO check anyway, because I think that's the most honest thing to do. I can't vote PP, I can't see any scum motivation in his posts. What am I missing?

The other thing I want to note, AF, is that if you think the team could be Implosion and PP it might be best to vote for Implosion as he's most experienced. If those two are a team, I think PP will struggle without Implosion where as the reverse might not be so true.

My thought process was more of implosion seems to be contributing more than PP, so it is better to leave him alive (for now). But what you said is certainly valid. I'm not taking my vote away until he posts though.

ISOing PP -

I get newbie town vibes rather than scum vibes. Reading back, I think his response to Implosion's 531 is fair.

389- "Absent a scumslip, significant new information, or us getting within 72 hours of deadline, I don't see my vote changing until Rocnix - or her slot - returns and starts participating. "

410 - "Looks like Rocnix isn't coming back, and we won't get a replacement until D2. I will not support a TNE lynch, and I'm hesitant on Chrimi and AF. I'm willing to pursue Jibs or 0x40. Jibs has been more involved, but to what end...I don't know.

UNVOTE: Rocnix
VOTE: 0x40"

I can see why at this later stage in the day, PP changes his vote off of Rocnix. So overall, townish?

Tbh I think his response to implosion is fair as well.

What I didn't like was how hard he tried to push the TNE wagon when she was L-1 without even FoSing her, even after his scumreads from his 280 readlist were Jibs/imp. Also a 'sideline sitting' 'hesitating to commit' attitude which rubs me not as a playstyle thing, but as a scum-motivated thing. Implosion elaborated more on those.

You're case against me is that I don't play this game like you do.

Which is why this made me laugh a little, as I was getting the same vibes from implosion late Day1.

Also

I can't vote PP, I can't see any scum motivation in his posts. What am I missing?

I don't mind the votes on PP either

Was this purely because of the ISO reread? How did the ISO reread help disprove existing suspicion leveled on PP, such as implosion's case?

PEdit: OK, here's a question for everyone. All else being equal, at the end of D1, who did you think would be the D2 lynch and why?
Tne for lurking and unhelpfulness or PP for scumminess.

[Cass]

PBP analysis for Rocnix (now replaced by Drone):
11, 15, 19, 31 - RVS: votes Chrimi, quickly unvotes when she self-votes. Careful player? No real content.
44 - Some opninions, but kinda bla, mostly stating the obvious and agreeing with others. Game was still very early, so doesn't mean much.
81 - Votes 0x40 to make him participate more. (Would be a safe move for careful scum.)
161 - A readslist as requested by Jibs (my predecessor). Reads Jibs (me) and Chrimi as slightly town, the rest as neutral, some weak suspicion at Implosion.

My vote will stay on 0x40 since he's not really at risk of being lynched and I would like to hear more from him.

173 - Questions 0x40 about what he thinks of Chrimi's and TNE's reactions to his attacks on them.
174 - Asks Penguin about his vote on AF.
176 - no content
184 - ah, a big juicy one. Distrusts Jib's townread on her, but decides he's townish after all. Distrusts Implosion in general (gutread). Impressed by Shannon, speculates she's either scum or a power role (Ding! Ding! Scum alarm!). Reads Chrimi as frustrated town. AF weak town. TNE detached, null. PP fake newbie (?), weak scumread. 0x40 opportunistic, moderate scumread. Then speculates about 0x40 possible scumpartner: shannon, penguin, or AstralFlare. (Not really consistent with the reads before, but assuming a scum-Rocnix who knows 0x40 is town I am not sure what to read in this. Will def look back on this one if Drone flips scum though.)

Ok, gtg now. Will do the rest later.

[Cass]

OK, here's a question for everyone. All else being equal, at the end of D1, who did you think would be the D2 lynch and why?

My personal pick would have been Drone even then, see my second post (506), who became my favorite when 0x40 flipped town. That's just based on my read. Based on general voting tendencies I'd say TNE, who was a null read at that point and right now hangs in the balance afaic. Please speak up, TNE.
I am not sure about this PP wagon, Implosions case has not convinced me. I'll ISO both when I have more time.

[PenguinPower]

What I didn't like was how hard he tried to push the TNE wagon when she was L-1 without even FoSing her, even after his scumreads from his 280 readlist were Jibs/imp. Also a 'sideline sitting' 'hesitating to commit' attitude which rubs me not as a playstyle thing, but as a scum-motivated thing. Implosion elaborated more on those.

I wasn't trying to push her wagon (and what is FoSing?). I was trying to get her to participate. She was a null read for me until I saw her previous game conclude, and I had stronger scum reads. I'm not hesitating to commit, but I do like to act after I have sufficient information.

Right now, tne is my strongest town read, and I'd like to see what she has to say now that Chrimi has claimed.

[AstralFlare]

tne is my strongest town read

For a crappy attitude, being unwilling to participate unless put at L-1, and asking people to claim? Why?

FoSing

Finger of suspicion when you say you think someone is scummy

[PenguinPower]

For a crappy attitude, being unwilling to participate unless put at L-1, and asking people to claim? Why?

I've already stated that. Post 394. You'll ask why does that matter, so I'll go ahead and refer you to post 401.

[shannon]

To clarify for AF in 550 - I don't mind the votes on PP because I think we need to get more participation from him. However, I would prefer the votes to be on TNE because I think we really really need to see more from him, and especially, pressure for him to explain his call for a role claim.

[shannon]

PP please don't go blindly forward with a town read you can't back away from.

[Cass]

Ok, yes, running out of patience:

UNVOTE: Drone
VOTE: The New Earth

[shannon]

OK that's two, let's get it rolling. All aboard the TNE wagon, let's get some answers!

[Drone]

@AF
I wasn't voting 0x40. I wasn't in the wagon which lead his lynch.
And I explained why I read him as a bad play towny, rather than a scum.
It's completely possible as an option.
My reads so far:
Astral Flare: null. Haven't been active enough to tell, when posts, posts reasonable arguments. Although a vote for the first post for a while is not all that towny imo.
Shannon: Towny. Active, investigative, motivated to catch scum. No visible slips.
Implosion: Null/weak town lean. Investigative and active. Informative. Proved to closely pay attention to any mistake anyone would say and as he promised, followed PP closely since day 1. Came back with a strong argument to start a wagon on him.
tne: null. Mostly unpredictable, pointing out things, but not explaining. Seems like she intentionally skips explaining and elaborating. Too open to be scummy (she ain't stupid and is experienced). But you can never know.
Cass: null. As Jibs there were some "wtf" moments, (181 as for most memorable example), could be towny with newb mistakes. As Cass whatsoever, interestingly charged on me. This is yet another flip from 818. Contradictions. Null.
Chrimi:Town lean/null Since I joined the game, I felt like Chrimi is just very straightforward and aggressive by nature. Hoping that it is who she is, she totally town read to me.
Hoping is not enough though, as Chrimi is a bit less aggressive this day. Trustworthy, but not too much.
Points for uncc'ed claim.
PP: null/scummy lean. I don't want to declare "OmGeeZus sCoOm!!@#£" by relying only on Implosion's case on PP. He is a very experienced and good player but I want to see and judge for myself. Also I promised to review his ISO, which I haven't done yet.

[Drone]

At the end of d1?
Chrimi/tne.

[Drone]

Ebwodp:
Referring to Shannon's question

[thenewearth]

Someone please tell me they can counterclaim Chrimi

[thenewearth]

I'll explain when there's actually no counterclaim

[thenewearth]

Remember guys,

Matrix6 is PR-solvable

[Cass]

I don't expect a CC anymore, i believe everyone has seen the claim now and had their chance, and am pretty sure a real RB would have cc-ed. Leaving the options that Chrimi is really RB or that there is no RB and she's doing a scum gambit.

So, please explain asap, TNE. How is it solveable and why should a RB claim in this situation?

[Cass]

EBWOP: Erm, read BP where I said RB.

[thenewearth]

Reasons why claiming BP now is better than with fewer people:

1) Destroys LyLo WIFOM of "who the real BP is", which is very a very common mistake BPs do
2) Limits fake claims where either, the real PR and the CC both die, which gives +1 unexplainable kill for scum, or, outs a more useful PR completely. Lets face it, not only is BP useless, its more anti-town than pro-town.
3) Pseudo-Innocent Child. Always helps
4) JK is strong, Tracker is stronger. You heard me right. Tracker is strong. On a matrix6 setup, anyways. You just need a bit of logic.


Weaker reasons why BP should claim on D1 when their PR is used

1) Better NK speculation
2) 70% of people would lynch the BP on MyLo. Its a thing that BP is the most anti-town claim in the universe

[thenewearth]

Also yes I'm one of those persons who want BP claims to be lynched

Which is Ironic because I once claimed BP and won because of it

[Cass]

Do you mean you want to lynch Chrimi today? Because you also just called her a pseudo-innocent-child, right? Or just that you would have had the claim come on a later day?

For now, because of 568 which makes sense:

UNVOTE: The New Earth

Would like to hear everyones opinion about this situation.

[PenguinPower]

Lets face it, not only is BP useless, its more anti-town than pro-town.

Why? Can you explain why a PR is anti-town?

2) 70% of people would lynch the BP on MyLo. Its a thing that BP is the most anti-town claim in the universe

Again, why is it an anti-town claim?

Do you mean you want to lynch Chrimi today?

This is what I took away from post 569. Why should we lynch a claimed and not CC'd role?

[thenewearth]

Do you mean you want to lynch Chrimi today? Because you also just called her a pseudo-innocent-child, right? Or just that you would have had the claim come on a later day?

For now, because of 568 which makes sense:

UNVOTE: The New Earth

Would like to hear everyones opinion about this situation.

I want to but I don't need to

[thenewearth]

Lets face it, not only is BP useless, its more anti-town than pro-town.

Why? Can you explain why a PR is anti-town?

2) 70% of people would lynch the BP on MyLo. Its a thing that BP is the most anti-town claim in the universe

Again, why is it an anti-town claim?

Do you mean you want to lynch Chrimi today?

This is what I took away from post 569. Why should we lynch a claimed and not CC'd role?

You'll learn from experience, friend

[Cass]

@ Astral Flare:

@Cass&Drone: As replacements, I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the people who have been playing since the start. This doesn't have to be a thirty quote supported readlist, but I would appreciate a sense of the general feeling you have towards everyone. Just a lean town/null/lean scum would be good enough.

You mean, like my post 506? Or do you mean an update of that? Or something else?