Mini Normal 1809: Game Over

[Elyse]

VOTE: Robbnva

Where's dat RVS vote

[Elyse]

What is that

[Elyse]

what's your logic, friend?

She votes me for not RVSing which implies she has an issue with people not RVSing(which would be stupid to begin with), but by doing that she herself didn't Rvs which makes her a hypocrite and as a result less trustworthy

Since Rvs voting isn't actually necessary anyway it's a bit of a way to force herself to look good by being proactive.

My vote on you wasn't serious

What is that

Final Fantasy X Alternative Universe, modded by Bork.

You were dead by the time I replaced in, but you're reads were awesome.

That wasn't me

I disagree I think scum is more likely to suggest a mass claim d1

He didn't suggest a mass claim d1. He even said "d3, d4ish" would be ideal.

VOTE: BBMolla

cmit is coming across genuine and townie to me. I dislike the shade BB is throwing on him.

[Elyse]

it's k I don't really think you're scum anyway I just hated Hoopla's reasoning

@Elyse

read people jesus fuck

But what you said didn't disprove what Hoopla was saying. Hoopla said that cmit is an overeager newbie trying to figure out what the town should do. You said scum are more likely to massclaim D1. That only makes sense if cmit is suggesting massclaim D1.

[Elyse]

More BB votes please and thank you

[Elyse]

He's scum, sorry. Maybe the mod is lying to you with your role.

He fumbled the whole massclaim thing really badly. He said scum would be more likely to massclaim D1, as if he were saying that cmit was scummy for doing so even though he didn't. Robb calls him out for this and he tells him to read. And THEN he says he wasn't scumreading cmit but just disagreeing with what Hoopla said. The timeline for this is off because he clarified his position after telling Robb to reread for being dumb or whatever.

And then when I called him out on it he realized he fucked up and there's nothing else for him to do. He's caughtscum who needs to hang.

[Elyse]

You don't think it has

any

merit? What about the part where I caught him in a lie?

Listen I know BB is a good player and maybe I'm being too overzealous this early on but I feel pretty confident he's scum.

[Elyse]

I don't share Hoopla's townread on Molla but I'll back off since it seems like no one else sees what I see.

[Elyse]

I don't share Hoopla's townread on Molla but I'll back off since it seems like no one else sees what I see.

Wait, why would you back off your scum read?
Surely you would want to convince us right now? Or are you happy to lynch outside of your scum reads?

Obviously I'm not happy to lynch outside my scumreads. These are terrible questions that make you look like you're scumhunting when you're not.

I'm not going to continue with my "BB lied and is scum" case because multiple people are saying he's stubborn town. It's a black and white thing that I can't really convince people on. Either you think he's lying scum or frustrated, stubborn town. Continuing that line of attack is useless. I'm going to pursue him in other ways if he continues to be scummy.

Scumread on Vedith

[Elyse]

My eyes glaze over every time I try to read the last few pages

[Elyse]

Elyse, I'm torn on 197. I agree with Vedith asking you why you would back off your Scumread, because I think if you suspect someone you should give voice at every opportunity. His latter two questions felt slightly underhanded. Initially I wanted to back Vedith against you over your Scumread of him in response to his 183. But, when reading his two latter questions they do feel Scummy to me.

Vedith, would you please provide feedback?

Do you think me continuing to push "BB was caught in a lie, he's caughtscum" is useful if no one feels the same way? It's literally just me repeating myself over and over again. I've laid out the evidence and BB even admitted he was wrong. I don't know what else to do. Follow me or don't.

That was just such an easy thing to jump on for scum and Vedith of course took that opportunity.

[Elyse]

"BB was caught in a lie, he's caughtscum"

In your experience, is this just as relevant for experienced scum as it is for newb scum in early d1?

I have him the benefit of doubt because my memory is shit and I get crap wrong as town that I'm then pressured as scum for, myself.

EBWOP

I think it's more relevant for experienced scum since they don't typically make mistakes.

I don't really think it's a matter of 'no one feels that way.' Personally I'm curious myself, and am open to listening to you, and considering your thoughts. The moral of the story I feel is that maybe it's not a good idea to assume no one feels this way or that, because they might feel the other way.

And, frankly, I really don't like Vedith's two latter questions he asked you. The way he asked them felt like they were loaded.

I think Robb has been explaining it pretty well. My major beef is that he said his "I disagree, scum are more likely to suggest mass claim D1" was a theory point in response to Hoopla. However, Hoopla said that cmit's overeager newbness was more likely to come from town, not the mass claim suggestion (which he didn't even do). So to me it looked like BB was trying to cast doubt on cmit and covered it up as "theory", but got caught because what he said didn't make sense.

This discussion stopped making sense on the last page.
An absolute is being pinged by someone who is not telling the truth and call it scum because town has no reason to lie. Actual scumhunting is looking for motivation. You are not doing that second thing.
Assume Molla was idd mistaken as he claimed, what else makes him scum?

Like he said, no scumhunting. He's only been defending himself and shitposting.

I agree with Robb. Not on the absolute bullshit and the House vote but that BB is scummier than anyone else. That's why I haven't moved my vote. I'm still pushing other people (mostly Vedith, agree with Hoopla re: BlankFace) but I don't want to completely abandon Molla just yet because he's most likely to be scum.

[Elyse]

It wasn't bolder in the original post.

Scumread on BlankFace.

Look at his ISO.

He's not doing anything, still has his RVS vote on me, and has barely commented on the gamestate, only to poke and prod here and there. Terrible.

In fact

VOTE: BlankFace

[Elyse]

Don't bitch at me for calling you out. Grendel is an oddball, Masq's post haven't stood out to me, Vedith is scummy, Chaos is probably town. I have a problem with you because you have done absolutely nothing. When I call you out, instead of providing reads or something, you bitch and moan and give an entire analysis of how other players have also done nothing. Are you kidding me? That's the scummiest response you could have given me. You're making excuses for yourself and wasting time on things that don't further the game.

I'll humor you for a second though. What do you think my ulterior motive is in only calling you out? Easy pickings? My other scum buddies are also lurking? I like to pick on you?

[Elyse]

No I also think Molla is scum

[Elyse]

Also Robb I totally get your frustration re: older players not voting for each other D1. I went head to head against Thor in a mini twice and it seemed impossible to overcome but I actually did and he was scum both times. While I agree with you re: Molla, I don't think he's going to be lynched today because other people don't see the reasons for him being scum. I really don't think it's the older player thing this time.

You are my strongest townread though so I'm here to offer you a comfy spot on the BlankFace wagon. Vedith is also a great place to go considering he came in and dropped a shitty vote on Hoopla and then refused to vote Molla.

[Elyse]

If you can't lynch the scummiest player in the game then why not compromise on the second or third scummiest? There is more than one scum you know.

[Elyse]

BlankFace continues to not scumhunting and play referee

[Elyse]

*scumhunt

[Elyse]

Who else does it apply to

[Elyse]

What is all this bs with mod kill or whatever? I'm so confused that the thread was locked and nothing happened.

Someone explain please because it's a bunch of vague accusations and I have no idea what's going on.

[Elyse]

But why is House scum for banking on Robb getting modkilled? Why is it not just because he dislikes him?

[Elyse]

What did he do that deserves a force replace?

Did I miss something obvious

Like what the hell is happening. I thought this was just a dick measuring contest but then it blew up

P-edit:
Threatening to post your PM? Really?

Still don't understand what makes him scum because tbh I would be fine if you were force replaced too because that's just shitty of you and takes the fun out of the game.

Logging off MS for the night, will return tomorrow with more thoughts after a reread of the shitshow of these last few pages.

[Elyse]

Dedicating time to this game later tonight

[Elyse]

Grendel, I see House's frustration as genuine regardless of alignment. I don't think his play was helpful at all but it was emotional and could come from town or scum. Robb is clearly infuriating to play with and House reacted. I understand your point about advocating for a modkill being scummy even if Robb first suggested it himself. But I think it's more like this - House is assuming that Robb is going to do something that will cause him to be modkilled. He's basically saying "GET ON WITH IT THEN, GET MODKILLED". House could be scum but it's not for suggesting a modkill.

N e way

I'm interested in lynching BlankFace, BBMolla, and Vedith today. That's it. BB and BlankFace continue to cheerlead Hoopla from the side and avoid scumhunting. I know BB probably won't be lynched simply because no one wants Robb to get what he wants, but he's actually scum y'all.

Vedith's content is pretty awful and he doesn't show much scumhunting initiative at all and has interacted with like three people total. I do find his Hoopla vote a puzzling move to come from scum though so I'm not entirely sure there. If it weren't for that he'd be my number 1 choice.

[Elyse]

House, if Robb retracts the demand will you put BBmolla back on the table where he belongs Day 1?

The second he's modkilled, absolutely.

I'm NOT giving him a pass after everything he's done to destroy this game.

I'll take it to mith if I have to.

Well that's what this post looked like to me.

It looks like you're almost challenging him with the whole take it to mith thing.

[Elyse]

I just hate using stupid things like this to scumhunt anyway when we have three excellent options in BB, BlankFace, and Vedith

[Elyse]

VOTE: Vedith

Ready for a flip

[Elyse]

He's at L-2 so not yet. I mean I wouldn't have a problem with it but I don't want him to claim if he's not in danger of being lynched.

[Elyse]

Wake why aren't you voting

[Elyse]

Wake why aren't you voting

I decide when I vote.

Why do you rush me to act?

I'm not rushing you to act. You were voting Vedith, the top wagon, unvoted without given a reason, and haven't mentioned it since. An update there would be helpful

[Elyse]

would you consider it a good time for him to claim?

Would you?

I think we would be in a much better place voting off Hoopla. I mean, we have already lost the jailkeeper, do we really want to lose me as well?

I thought he was gonna claim PR after this post so I'm confused

[Elyse]

Why not scum who was going to claim PR and switched to VT?

[Elyse]

House why the switch? Did Hoopla's reasoning convince you? Cause I still don't get it

[Elyse]

Still not convinced that claiming VT makes Vedith town and don't want two claims out in the open cause I still think Vedith is scum, but happy to switch to BlankFace before deadline if necessary.

[Elyse]

If BlankFace flips town I'm going after Vedith and cmit. That unvote of Vedith but no vote on BlankFace reeked of alleviating pressure on a buddy but not wanting to vote town.

[Elyse]

VOTE: Hoopla

[Elyse]

Yeah that was pretty fake.

Masq is a good vote. I'll explain my Hoopla scumread later when I get on a computer.

[Elyse]

Hoopla's actions just don't jive with me.

First, she changes her vote from Vedith to BlankFace to "switch up the wagons":

i genuinely don't know what is going on now.

i am mostly waiting for the non-contributors to contribute and over-contributors to stop.

lets switch up the vedith/blankface wagons:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: blankface

The Vedith wagon stalled at this point so changing it up makes sense to see how the momentum of a BlankFace wagon will go.

Do you think Vedith is town now?

he's still in my small pool of lynch targets, but his wagon has stalled recently, so i'm seeing if a blankface wagon will create some new buzz.

ideally i'd like a blankface/vedith wagon battle today.

Here she hypes up a Vedith vs BlankFace duel to the death.

Then, she hastily narrows down the choices to Vedith or BlankFace:

House, Rob, Molla aren't being lynched today. There simply isn't enough support. If there had been, we definitely would have seen it after these last few days.

Vedith and Blankface are good choices that most people seem open to.

This is fine. I thought BB was a good wagon (still think he's scum) but Hoopla didn't feel that way and there's no issue with her channeling the votes toward wagons she likes.

this is essentially a matter of wifom at the moment, but i believe vedith would have fake-claimed a PR as scum here. he seems very much like a VT giving up to me - scum usually aren't so chill with their own demise.

i know towns don't have a tendency to let VT claims live, but it's exceedingly rare for scum to claim VT upon being the first wagon forced to claim. does anyone else share these sentiments?

I found this a very strange reason to townread Vedith. It's weak, and she barely pushes it. For someone who championed either Vedith or BlankFace all day, her townread on Vedith should have made her go full steam ahead on BlankFace. It seemed to me like she wanted the Vedith lynch to still go through but didn't want to be associated with it.

The remainder of her posts on D1 are not urgent at all...the only thing she really does is tell cmit to make a choice, which is obvious for anyone to do at this point.

I think this post:

It's hard to tell how meaningful Vedith eclipsing Blankface's wagon is. My gut instinct is Blank is town too. There was a lot of movement and stalling between the two wagons, to the point where it seemed like scum didn't care which one died, which implies Blank is town. I think if he were scum, we'd have seen less of a challenge on Blank's wagon and Vedith's wagon would have been piled on more earlier when Blank was faint lynch risk. I find on D1 scum tend to be preventative like that, rather than letting it get to a stage where they need to choose between bussing or deliberately voting a town over an under pressure scum.

accurately explains Hoopla's behavior D1. She was the engineer behind the Vedith vs BlankFace deathmatch and didn't seem to care which one died. This would be fine if she scumread both of them, but she thought Vedith's claim made him town. So why was she content in saying "I think Vedith is probably town for his claim" and then remain silent and let him be lynched anyway?

tl;dr
Hoopla steered the lynches toward two townies, didn't care which one was lynched, made a half-assed defense of Vedith to make herself look better, and did nothing to stop her townread from being lynched. I expected more "GET YOUR VOTES ON BLANKFACE!" from her.

[Elyse]

Elyse's reads are really really bad

Which ones and why

[Elyse]

@Grendel
I think cmit is scummy. Will elaborate on that tomorrow.

@Egg
I think Masq and Hoopla could be a team. I'm still trying to figure out if Hoopla had ulterior motives when she demanded everyone choose BlankFace or Vedith. Protecting Masq could be one, but I'm not sure if he was ever in any real danger.

[Elyse]

VOTE: Masquerade

More comfortable with this. Still think Hoopla could be scum but she makes the most sense with Masquerade and brings up a good point about no one else including him in the wagons.

[Elyse]

How so?

[Elyse]

No it's not.

I'm willing to 1v1 him if he says it is though.

[Elyse]

I'd like to know why you've still failed to contribute anything meaningful besides your reads posts at the end of the day when you were about to be lynched

[Elyse]

Seraphim is town cool

[Elyse]

@Elyse: out of Blank, cmitc1, Hoopla, BBmolla, and Mask who do you think is most likely scum team?
Am I right in assuming that you're town reading the other half of the roster?

Masq/Hoopla/cmit

Slightly doubting my Hoopla read but I don't think she's scum with BB. Blank could really fit anywhere but after the double stalled wagons yesterday I'm unsure.

And yes I'm more or less townreading everyone else.

Curious to see who Masq "shot"

[Elyse]

So Egg who would you lynch instead

[Elyse]

Nah it's probably more unlikely because two roleblockers gets messy.

I think Masq is lying but I'd feel reaaaaaaly dumb lynching him if he flipped town. I'd like to hear who he shot but as of now I still want to lynch him.

P-edit: Hoopla who would you want to lynch today

[Elyse]

I'd rather lynch cmit. I'm townreading Egg.

[Elyse]

Why are you townreading him?

Mostly gut. I liked his push on Masq. Nothing about him has really bothered me at all.

[Elyse]

There's no way both cmit and Masq were blocked so if Masq used his shot, he's lying or there's BP or something. I believe cmit's claim.

[Elyse]

I don't think it'll do much if there's a scum RB.

Although my brain is fried rn and I need to put more thought into it. We only have a little over 2 days until deadline.

[Elyse]

Whoa I missed a lot.

Sticking with my Masq vote. Like Hoopla and Seraphim have already said, he doesn't have much scum motivation to lie here.

[Elyse]

Hoopla suddenly deciding Blank is scum after calling the wagons town on D1 is mighty suspicious.

It makes her half hearted "we should lynch BlankFace" make it look like distancing from the Vedith wagon with no actual intent on getting Blank lynched.

Hoopla/Blank/Masq or BB/Blank/Masq makes the most sense to me. BB has done nothing all game and fits if it's not Hoopla. I'm townreading Sera and Egg. Kts could be scum I guess but I'm not worried about it.

[Elyse]

Hopefully we lynch the scum PR today.

VOTE: Hoopla

Also for casting doubt on BB.

[Elyse]

Hoopla said THE mafia PR as in she knows there's only one.

Also why would scum block Grendel if he was going to shoot town?

[Elyse]

Hoopla said THE mafia PR as in she knows there's only one.

Also why would scum block Grendel if he was going to shoot town?

That is not a scumslip. Hoopla can speak for herself, but that's literally not a scumslip.

How did they know he was going to shoot town? He could shoot literally anyone. He was making a show of shooting KTS but we know he could have shot anyone. Scum knew this too and decided to block him to keep numbers even, to play conservatively, rather than letting him shoot anyone. I don't think there needed to be a convo that went "I think Grendel is going to shoot me Mafia-fam, let's roleblock him"; I think scum blocked him because he's a powerful, confirmed PR if he fires. They get a little WIFOM, a little security, and even numbers.

Besides you saying it's not, why? I'm looking for a legitimate reason. To me the scumteam could have two PRs and it would make much more sense for her to say "Hopefully we lynch A pr".

If scum thought Grendel would kill scum, then they would RB him. But if they thought he would shoot town, why wouldn't they take the free kill? Take for instance your supposed me/BF scumteam. Grendel hasn't raised suspicions toward either of us afaik so why would we RB him if he was never going to kill either of us?

[Elyse]

Hoopla said THE mafia PR as in she knows there's only one.

Also why would scum block Grendel if he was going to shoot town?

I think from the context of my posts, it is obvious I am talking about the scum power capable of blocking and interfering with our actions. If they have an encryptor or something else, so be it, but most of the time, the scum will just have a roleblocker/rolestopper here -- and really, a blocking role is the only one we really needed to worry about. If you think it's likely or at all possible the scum has two blocking roles when the town already has a JK too, then I don't know what to say.

Me being shot last night would actually be beneficial for the town, as it removes me as a possible mislynch today/tomorrow and doesn't cost the town one of our two chances at hitting scum.

So you're arguing that scum blocked the kill so they could get a mislynch today?

I find it much more likely that scum was worried they would die and blocked the kill rather than "hmm Grendel is probably gonna shoot town but we should block it anyway and try to use that to mislynch someone." A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

[Elyse]

My bad. I did not think that they would be added even if scum.

So yes you were correct to do that. I still think you are scum, though I thought I had more of a slam dunk than I did. Your handling of the Masq lynch was very strange. It seemed as though you were trying to find a way to keep him alive and then decided there was no way and just bussed him.

[Elyse]

V/LA until Tuesday

[Elyse]

Hoopla you did want Masq alive early on in the day. Just because you switched at the end when it made you look bad doesn't mean your original stance wasn't there. I was on Masq the entire day because it was obvious he was lying.

I agree that BB is town. I don't think he would share something like that in an attempt to confirm himself as town if he were scum because it's easy to verify.

As far as me agreeing with you re: Masq, bussing exists. I'm not going to ignore someone's good points because I think they're scum. Sometimes scum make the best cases on their buddies.

My pool is Hoopla, sera, Blank, and kts.

[Elyse]

When you pushed Grendel??? You are the only reason that the whole double vig claim happened. And before that you voted Egg.

Also lol I'm dumb. I meant the whole time after Masq claimed not the entire day. For some reason I feel like this game has gone on longer than it has.

[Elyse]

I'm not trying to be high and mighty. But there were obvious signs that he was lying (refusing to explain if he still had a shot left, awkwardness surrounding the claim, avoidance of the thread) and it seemed to me like you gave him too much leeway and only switched when there was no other option.

You were also willing to lynch Egg, then Grendel, then finally Masq and now you switch to BlankFace and me without skipping a beat while leaving Sera and kts as options as well. The only person you haven't suspected of the living players is BB, who you buddied early on by giving him a townread that kept him from possibly being lynched.

I just don't see this as town Hoopla.

[Elyse]

Nothing is a slam dunk in this game, so if we could make a play that gave him a chance to confirm himself as town at night, why would we not take it on the chance he was truthful?

The only person you haven't suspected of the living players is BB, who you buddied early on by giving him a townread that kept him from possibly being lynched.

That should be a point in my favour if BBmolla is town.

Because it could be more harmful than good.

Having one pocket townread for the entire game and suspecting the rest of the player list is a classic scum move. It's not a point in your favor at all, considering you channeled the D1 lynch to 1 maybe 2 townies anyway.

[Elyse]

Waiting for BlankFace and kts to choose Hoopla/BF.

Well mostly for BF to post and kts to decide

[Elyse]

Does anyone have meta on Blankscum?

Is he usually a flake?

[Elyse]

Right now I'm thinking it's Hoopla/Blank or Hoopla/Wingback. I wouldn't be heartbroken lynching Blank but I'm really confident in Hooplascum.

[Elyse]

The Hoopla VT claim means nothing.

With cmit and Rob flipped and a highly probable Grendel vig, there's likely no other PR. So Hoopla would claim VT regardless of alignment and the timing doesn't matter since it's inevitable.

[Elyse]

It means nothing to me. I knew she would claim VT so claiming it now rather than later isn't alignment indicative.

Like if you put the pieces together it's clear massclaim is probably unnecessary since everyone's gonna claim VT.

[Elyse]

Do you disagree?

I could be confbiasing but I don't see how that makes Hoopla town

[Elyse]

Checking in, responding to Wingback later.

Nice to get the game rolling again

[Elyse]

Omg what is with this slot and trying to save obvscum Hoopla

Wingback I think your read on Hoopla is off because you weren't there in real time when it was happening. Like it was so so obvious Masq was lying. I get what you're saying that Hoopla made a play that would make her look bad as scum - but she's also intelligent enough to argue this. It's WIFOM to me. I also think you are underrating keeping Masq alive. We were in MyLo with one more mislynch and if one townie voted another townie, bam the game could be over like that. Hoopla took a risk. Plus if Masq was planning this elaborate claim and such, I'd expect at least one buddy to go along with it. Because otherwise what's the point? He claims vig and goes down anyway? Someone needs to give him the benefit of the doubt to give him some sort of foothold. I think Hoopla attempted to do that but everything backfired when Grendel claimed and Masq was stuck.

[Elyse]

Like, Elyse is saying the same thing in Post 1157. That Hoopla is scum for "casting doubt on BB." I find that ridiculous. You are probably town but not "confirmed town" and not looking at the possibility of you being scum is poor town play. Yet, Elyse and Grendel are scumreading her partially for having doubts about you.

In a situation like this scum need to keep their options open because there are only a few people who can actually be lynched.

Like right now the scumteam is counting on me to be a mislynch. But they're gonna need one more so I look for anyone who's hesitant to townread someone and narrow down the pool. Because let's say the team is Hoopla/BlankFace. Ok they lynch me today and plan on lynching you tomorrow. But let's say you obvtown it up. Now what? They're basically screwed. But if Hoopla casts doubt on BB then she has an opening.

There's a difference between being reluctant to townread someone and keeping your options open and Hoopla is doing the latter imo.

[Elyse]

Prodge until tomorrow sorry

[Elyse]

Wouldn't you need to know more about Hoopla to know weather she is reluctant, or quick, to bus her partners as scum? Judging solely from her play this game I would say that Hoopla doesn't seem like the kind of scum player to be quick to bus her partners. So I could definitely see her hoping to salvage Mask at least one more day. I do think that that unvote was indicative of wanting to see if she could save Mask (Which makes more sense as scum since as you pointed out- Mask did not have two town posts to rub together), and she led the reasoning that Mask could use his shot to clear himself tomorrow. The thing about that is with Cmitc1 confirming there being a role blocker it seems like she would recant the plan to clear Mask via shooting right then and there since he would be blocked if he were a vigilante. Instead of moving back to interrogate Mask however, she jumped on me in post 1052. At that point Mask would no longer be confirmable, so why was she interested in trying to lynch a new target? I am not seeing the town intent from that.

This is an excellent point.

I disagree with that theory pretty strongly. For instance, in the Queen Micro, most of the town zoned in on me or BNL. When I started looking outside the pair of us at you and TTH, the general response was something like "he's keeping his options open, therefore scum." It turned out that the final scum wasn't in BNL/me so looking elsewhere was a necessity. I see a somewhat similar situation here with most players looking inside just Hoopla/Blankface and I'm not even close to convinced that that's the team.

I think that's the exception to the rule. Plus I never thought BNL was scum. I just found it suspicious how Hoopla townread BB on day 1 and suddenly started questioning him when his play has been the same the whole time.

Why are you townreading Egg? Sure, he voted Masquerade early but a lot of his posts seem like the casual, passive followups that scum typically while not staying engaged in the moment. On hindsight, I also thought his Masquerade reasoning was pretty weak.

Egg is more of a gut read. Like you said his Masq push was early, earlier than I expect bussing scum to push, and a lot of his posts just jive with what I'm thinking about the game. I don't see him being buddies with Hoopla either which isn't a strong point since she hasn't flipped yet. But you think he's scum with me, and I know that's not the case. What other buddy do you see for him? Blank?

Why BBMolla? We know now that him being in the neighborhood says nothing about his alignment. You had him as a scumread D1 along with Rob. What changed that you abandoned that read? Also, neither of them have been posting much at all lately and just coasting through the game.

If Hoopla is town I will have to reevaluate this read but I really, really do not see Hoopla townreading BB and keeping him in her pocket the entire game only to randomly cast doubt on him now. Her unjustified townread on him based on his "emotional outburst" just screams scum trying to keep a strong town player on her side. (Not that BB has been strong this game, he's barely been a presence)

Checked Egg's scum-meta to see what he's like as scum. The first game I looked at re-affirmed my suspicions that he was bussing Masquerade. For instance, take a look at his ISO here and Ctrl+F "Newbie" who is one of his partners. Egg replaces into the game and makes a giant catchup post most of which are points against his buddy capping it off with a vote at the end. Egg's partner wasn't under much pressure at all and the wagon was started by Egg. The stark similarity between that and his push on Masquerade here in Post 208 should nullify the reasons anyone is townreading him. Granted, he's also townread his partners in other games (his partner Beck in this game) but my point is that his posts in this game are scummy and his interactions with Masquerade shouldn't be a reason for a townread him as they fit very, very well into the range of how Egg interacts with his buddies. In fact, his push on Masquerade was based on very nebulous reasoning and him winding up being right at the end fits much more with an informed perspective than town that genuinely found scum.

Solidly confident Egg is scum here and I'd like everyone to engage me on this read.

Egg tying Hoopla to Masquerade pre-flip also makes more sense from scum tying his partner to the townie he wants to lynch next to set her up. Not at all sure who Egg's buddy is at this point. Just don't think it's Hoopla.

I don't rely on meta much at all, but there are some situations that call for bussing more than others. I normally hate bussing but in some games I have to do it. I don't think looking at one game is a strong enough reason to completely abandon my reason for townreading Egg. Hoopla's "let's let Masq shoot and prove himself" reads much more as what scum would do to me than Egg's early vote on Masq.

Re your points in 1323:

1. I understand what you're saying here. Egg was trying to push Masq-scum to make himself look good and used weak reasoning to do so. But for me the timing is still off. It was so early in the game and didn't lead to anything. He didn't get any credit for doing it. I just think the risks outweigh the benefits so early on.

2. This is a decent point if Egg is scum with BlankFace. But one major reason I personally stayed on Vedith was because he already claimed at that point and I thought it was unnecessary to force a claim out of BlankFace if I was fine with either of the two wagons.

3. Egg wanted to let Masq confirm his shot before Grendel claimed, so I don't have much of an issue with that. I also found it very town of him to vote for Hoopla when Hoopla and kts voted for Grendel right before deadline. Egg could have so easily went with them and said "deadline" but didn't.

4. Yeah his play today hasn't been spectacular. I agree there. But besides yours, no one's has. The game kind of went stale and I could see frustration being a reason for his "tempted to lynch BlankFace" post because it took even more momentum out of the game.

Why do you think it could be BB as Egg's partner now? I thought our unexplained townreads on each other were scummy.

^that's good, cmitc.

~~

VOTE: Masquerade

Hopefully we lynch the scum PR today.

1) If scum have 1 PR how does Hoopla know? This assumes facts not in evidence. Assuming Hoopla scum here this probably makes them a goon.

HAHAHA

Someone else sees it! Though you suggesting a me/Hoopla team is

Anyone know if Elyse tunnels as scum?

Elyse: I'd be happy for some self-meta from you if you're down.

I don't tunnel as scum. I also don't think I tunnel as town except once in a while I get stuck on someone.

Recent towngames:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=67138
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=64520
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=64409 (I tunneled on Titus really bad here and it blew up in my face)

Recent scumgames:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=65280 (third party)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=64487
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=61085


*recent is like 6 months ago lol besides Queen Mafia

This is a fishy turnaround though

Sure do! I practically own stock in greyhound with how much I bus as scum. A good bus is one that is ineffective and weak and entirely unconvincing yet believable. It is also effective when it is perceived you don't have to bus. Wingback can attest to this in 1800 but I bussed Karnos with practically every post I wrote.

The only time I found Hoopla and Elyse going at each other is during that fight. I think that fight was setup for a bus. They didn't really have Hoopla as a scumread far as I can tell. I also find the majority of the posts here completely devoid of any "hootspah".

However if Hoopla is town then Elyse is probably town. A post like 1200 I don't see happening unless Elyse and Hoopla are of the same alignment. Elsye notes the scumminess of Hoopla's vote hopping to seemingly avoid Masq. If they were differing alignments then I would have expected this to happen during the Masq lynch. Therefore either Elyse and Hoopla are scum together or Elyse is confbiasing and looking for more to be convincing.

I don't see a world where Hoopla scum and Elyse town because then Hoopla would have countered saying he wasn't being scummy when Elyse brought up the point in 1200.

I think 1200 is pretty damning for Hoopla and Elyse.

This is just ridiculous.

First of all why are you saying you're gonna vote Hoopla if you can't see Hoopla scum and me-town?

You keep bringing up 1200 and saying I should have brought up Hoopla's scumminess during the Masq lynch. Why would I do that before Masq flipped? I brought it up the very next day. So did Egg. So did Grendel. It seems as though your "tells" could point to all three of us.

In your mind, what's stopping an Egg/Hoopla team?

This looks to me like you're bussing Hoopla and trying to bring me down with her.

p-edit: so why not vote me?

[Elyse]

@Elyse;

re: Post 1364, Egg's push on Masq being early is actually one of the reasons I suspect him. It was too early to deduce that Masquerade was mafia from the information we had at the time. Pushing on your partners early when you don't have a town player you can confidently push has a ton of scum motive. It gives you someone to push without risking antagonizing someone and sew in some early distancing. You were in the Queen game when I made this point about TTH's push on Aristo.

Ok you're right I could see that being more likely to come from scum. I would like you to respond to my point about Egg voting for Hoopla instead of Grendel with deadline approaching because that is probably one of my strongest reasons for Egg town.

I don't follow why you think that besides my play, no one else's has been "spectacular" when from your perspective, I've spent most of today trying to derail a lynch on "obvscum Hoopla." I could maybe see it simply referring to activity level but it feels off. With that said, upon a re-read of the game and from recent interactions with Mathblade, I'm actually leaning against you being scum. Found a few towntells in House's ISO as well. That gives me a pool of Mathblade, Hoopla, Egg, BBMolla to work with.

Yeah I'm talking about you posting a bunch of walls and analyses. Also you're coming around on Hoopla scum so you have the chance to be truly ~spectacular~

Hoopla/Egg is unlikely to me because of the vote I mentioned and Hoopla/BB just flat out does not look like scum-scum to me. I'll never be able to see that.

[Elyse]

I want Hoopla blood

[Elyse]

Ok I kinda skimmed but mostly read that.

Couple things:

1. You can't judge my alignment based on one game of experience with me. That's just fucking bullshit. I was scumreading your slot in that game and your posts were extremely scummy to me. I was saying "shut up, die scum" because I didn't want you to actually influence town and weasel your way out of a lynch. Here I think you're probably town (ngl this has tripped me up a bit seeing as your last ditch "Elyse can we lynch MathBlade instead" looks extremely manipulative and tries to paint me in a bad light because you know Hoopla was my main scumread forever and I wouldn't flip - if you're scum with Math that was an excellent move) so I'm gonna be more receptive about what you have to say.

2. The "spectacular" comment was literally because this game was deceased, dead, in the ground, and you came in and posted novels and brought it back. That's it. And if I was scum and you were town and you were getting it right, I would be pissed. I wouldn't compliment you.

3. You say I was too receptive to your Egg scumread. Ummmmm???? I refuse to vote for him. Like idk what this argument even is. I listened to you and debates with you on a bunch of points but I've never really faltered with that townread. It's not like I pulled a Hoopla and started casting doubt on Egg. Just because I didn't put my fingers in my ears and yell doesn't mean I was agreeing with you.

4. The thing is - I'm very confident Math is scum. Yesterday they mixed up their reads by saying "hiplop" (Hoopla) and I were scum together or something. I have to go back and check cause I don't remember exactly. It reeks as fake reads they couldn't keep track of. But do you think they'd fuck up how they were pretending to read their own scumbuddy? I don't. I think Math knows he fucked up and the only option left is to bus and have Math take someone down with him. (The fact that you are willing to lynch me today is ridiculous btw) I'm coming around to you as his scumbuddy because this all seems very pre planned. You asking me to switch to Math when it wouldn't happen, Math tying me to Hoopla, you doing a complete 180 and saying you're willing to lynch me today when Math basically scum slipped. It seems awfully suspicious.

5. You say I always left Blank as a secondary scumread to Hoopla. This is correct. Me, Egg, and Grendel who is dead town all had Hoopla as our top scumread. The thing is though that once she was lynched, what was I going to do? Suddenly start scumreading someone else? Math is coming next anyway. So you can't argue me as scum for having Math as a secondary scumread because it makes sense for me to do as either alignment.

I'd rather vote Math than no lynch at this point tbh

[Elyse]

So basically this game is Elyse+Mathblade vs. BBmolla+Wingback, and I'm the deciding vote.

Cool.

Nah.

I think Math is scum and BB is town.

Will respond to Wingback later when I have time

[Elyse]

Or he's scum with you or Egg.

Which I find unlikely. Well with Egg at least.

[Elyse]

Well I wasn't previously. I thought it was Hoopla/MathBlade.

So now I have to look elsewhere. Wingback makes sense because like I said his maneuvers seem almost planned at this point. Egg I've been townreading strongly based on his content. You and BB have kind of floated by. But now that Hoopla flipped town that means her townread on BB is legit so she wasn't keeping him as a pocket townread.

So yeah it's possible but unlikely you're scum. And I know I'm gonna get flak for "keeping my options open" but I was wrong on my strongest townread so I've had to reevaluate.

[Elyse]

VOTE: Elyse

Not even mad if we lose.

So you're voting me instead of near confscum Math just because I have the gall to consider you as scum when you've done fuck all the entire game?

Nice.

@town
If you want to lynch me today instead of MathBlade who can't keep his reads straight or a no lynch since this is MyLo, this loss is on you.

[Elyse]

Yeah I never considered you two as a team

P-edit

Ughhh

[Elyse]

There are 8 fucking days until deadline. I've been phone posting all day and frankly don't WANT to respond to you right now. Don't have the energy, would rather do it on a laptop.

So fuck your ultimatum. We have 8 days left and I'm not going out of my way to respond to you in two hours when you're clearly not changing your mind anyway.

[Elyse]

Also your "I don't trust Egg to vote Elyse" is bullshit because you need Egg's vote today anyway. Unless you're counting on my scumbuddy Math's vote :roll

You're just trying to mislynch me to win the game because you're unsure if you can win in LyLo against me. Otherwise there's no reason for you to lynch me before obvscum Math or a NL since

you need Egg's vote anyway

.

[Elyse]

@Elyse, if Math is so obvscum, why aren't you voting Math?

I'm withholding my vote so I can hammer any wagon that gets to L-1 that's not mine

[Elyse]

@Elyse, if Math is so obvscum, why aren't you voting Math?

I'm withholding my vote so I can hammer any wagon that gets to L-1 that's not mine

confirmed herself as scum

VOTE: Elyse

Agreed. Will figure out which of Wingback/Egg tomorrow is scum.

VOTE: Elyse

THIS WAS A JOKE

omg

VOTE: MathBlade

What happened to Wingback scum MathBlade?

@Egg

As I said earlier don't see Hiplop and Elyse being scum together.

Your opening posts were all geared towards showing us how Elyse and Hoopla were cross-bussing so no, that's not what you said earlier.

Can't keep your story straight I see.

This is why MathBlade is basically confscum.

They spent the entire day saying that Hoopla and I are scum together and then randomly decided that they didn't see us as scum together. They know they're going down and want to take me down with them.

Which is why lynching ME over them is ridiculous because their plan all along was clearly to get me lynched first. And now it's coming to fruition. I mean look at that switch from "Wingback is scum" to voting me when it looks like I'll be the lynch.

It mostly pisses me off that the reason town is going to lose is because Wingback either genuinely thinks that Egg won't lynch me or he's scum and made that idea up in order to get me lynched today and win the game without having to go up against me in LyLo.

[Elyse]

You're right. I still haven't responded to your giant walls.

I think banking on BB or kts is riskier than you're making it out to be. People can change their minds on a dime. The best move for any scumteam today is to lynch me.

My townread on Egg is certainly weakened after Hoopla's townflip, but I find his reaching out to me and asking to explain Math obvscum very townie. If he was scum with Math his choices are probably only me and Math today. There's no reason for him to even pretend to be considering voting Math when he could easily vote me and win because we have you and kts tying the noose around my neck as we speak.

[Elyse]

Ok??

[Elyse]

Also idk why you're acting like the optimal play here for me is to bus my buddy MathBlade.

Let's say I get them lynched today. What does that buy me? Hmmm nothing considering everyone thinks I'm scum with him anyway.

If I was scum with MathBlade I'd "reevaluate Egg" and try to get him lynched.

[Elyse]

@kts and BB

Who would you actually be willing to vote today

[Elyse]

OH MY FUCKING GOD WINGBACK

IM NOT GONNA DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT WHEN YOU WANT

I WANT TO SEE IF BB AND KTS WOULD EVEN BE WILLING TO VOTE ANYONE BESIDES ME

OTHERWISE IM NOT GONNA WASTE MY TIME

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

[Elyse]

The game is going to end regardless if BB and kts won't budge on me.

I've never been in a situation where there's someone who is universally scumread (MathBlade) and yet they aren't being lynched.

If I get lynched over him it's embarrassing.

[Elyse]

@egg
Yes as far as I can remember those are the recent ones.

@Wing
It's insulting that you think I would go into LyLo with you and Egg and auto vote you. I'm not someone who would make a decision that quickly.

It's just mind boggling that you're not 100% sure of who's scum between me/Egg yet you're still voting one of us even though MathBlade is the partner in your mind. That's just bad play and I don't think you're a bad player. So it makes me think you're scum who's trying to push a mislynch through instead of having to bus his buddy and face LyLo alone. And again, I reallllly don't think egg is scum because he could've come in here and voted me and the game would be over. But I'll consider it because maybe he was scared to put a vote down.

Anyway let's say we lynch MathBlade today and he flips scum.

If you have kts/BB with you in 4P MyLo, what's stopping both of you from parking your votes on me? Unless you're thinking Egg would force a No Lynch?

I just don't see how you're automatically assuming it's going to be 3P LyLo with me and Egg and we're going to auto vote you. Has Egg even expressed a scumread on you?

[Elyse]

VOTE: Wingback

He just scumslipped

He said that me being at L-1 and Egg not hammering means that Egg is town

But if he was actually town he would realize that Egg and I could be scumbuddies

It has to be Wingback

[Elyse]

Don't bother we have caughtscum

[Elyse]

Which brings me back to my point from earlier.

If you are so sure that MathBlade is scum and BB/kts are town that you're willing to consider Egg conftown by not hammering me, you should've been voting MathBlade this entire day.

You're scum either way.

And stop acting like my Egg read has no validity. Just because I'm confident in it and didn't post a 95 page thesis about it doesn't mean it's any less valid than your read.

[Elyse]

@BB and kts

I know this will probably fall on deaf ears but look at Wingback's play.

He said that he's so confident MathBlade is scum that he's willing to call Egg town for not hammering me. And yet he refuses to vote MathBlade. This is textbook scum play. Scumread your buddy but make up some bullshit excuse not to vote them. Except it's happening in MyLo and it'll cost us the game if you lynch me.

@Egg
I am willing to lynch MathBlade over Wingback today BUT Wingback scumslipped and there's a 1% chance it could be like BB or something.

[Elyse]

It mostly pisses me off that the reason town is going to lose

^That feels genuine though. I might need to skim some Elyse LYLO games.

Knock yourself out. In reverse chronological order:

• Borderlands Mafia - Serial Killer, survived and won.
  
• Anything Goes Mafia - Elyse got lynched D4.
  
• You could be anyone IV - Elyse survived alone and won.
  
• Mini 1668 - Elyse survived and won with her partner Jake From State Farm (which I'm guessing is the same delightful Robbnva that was playing this game D1).
  
• You could be anyone III - She got lynched.
  
• Micro 241 - Elyse won as scum in 6P mylo. Her partner was Mastin2.
  
• Mini 1511 - Elyse won in 5P LYLO. Her partner was aphix I believe.
  
• Mini 1505 - Elyse won in 5P LYLO. I think her partner was garmr.
  
• Newbie 1327 - Survived and won with her partner Uberninja in 5p lylo.

Reading her ISO backwards should give you a decent idea of what she can fake in LYLO.

Going over this made me realize that she can fake quite a lot of ATE as scum. In fact, she successfully fakes ATE in a good majority of her scumgames, and tends to be pretty abrasive in pushing her targets. Given she won 7/9 scumgames (maybe more if I missed any), the things you are calling genuine are completely non-alignment indicative.

That she won games in the past isn't a reason to vote her but it's a damn good reason I want this game solved here and now. So, if you are town, I need you to make that more obvious because given the gamestate, lynching Math isn't really going to win it for us. Whichever of you is town has a horrible misread and need to fix it.

For the most part, Elyse makes sense for the reasons I've listed out in all my walls today. But your fence-sitting sends off all kinds of alarms and I really need you to be as transparent as you can so I can solve this game.

For the record I didn't win 7/9

I won 9/9 but didn't make it to the end in 2

[Elyse]

ORRRR

You're scum with MathBlaade and want to lynch me ftw

Makes much more sense

[Elyse]

You wouldn't look amazing considering EVERYONE thinks MathBlade is scum

Which is why it makes no sense he's not being lynched

Except maybe since you are scared of LyLo with me/Egg?

[Elyse]

You're assuming kts is an idiot and would be immediately vote for me

[Elyse]

Wingback explaining the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true.

It makes much more sense for you to be scum with MathBlade than it does to be treating him as confscum yet not wanting to lynch him.

[Elyse]

How do you know BB will vote me?

What if he's thinking like a normal person and realizes that it's dumb to lynch me today?

Your conclusions are based on assumptions rather than facts

[Elyse]

Wingback effort does not mean town.

I prefer being scum and usually put more effort in when I'm scum.

@Egg
I use hyperbole all the time. It's a habit I should probably shake. But Wingback declaring you town by not voting me uses the assumption that MathBlade must be scum. If he's making this assumption as town, then there's no reason for him to not be voting MathBlade at first. Or he knows that we are not scum together because he's scum, meaning his declaration of you as town is correct.

[Elyse]

But another point against Wingback is manipulating people by assuming that no one will ever change their mind. He does this by saying kts and BB would vote me right away 100% if we got to 5P LyLo and that Egg and I would vote him 100% in 3P LyLo no matter what. These are both false and are the only things he's using to justify lynching me over his buddy MathBlade.

[Elyse]

I did reevaluate it

And he's still town

His actions today are town town town

Obviously him not hammering me makes him conftown to me but even before that

[Elyse]

But you didn't even address my point about you being manipulative.

You just said "you too!" which is what scum do when they have no answer

[Elyse]

Everyone reevaluates in LyLo.

And what do you mean that's not an honest attempt to read him? I didn't sort him in that post.

I townread Egg

Hoopla flipped town

My townread weakened

He towned it up today

He's town

That's it

[Elyse]

This is what we should've done since the beginning

VOTE: MathBlade

[Elyse]

Ok you can stop with the "Elyse is massaging Egg's back" narrative. You're stretching what is a townread I've had on someone for the whole game into buddying.

Guess what? Sometimes people are able to form a read on someone and stick to it. I know you have trouble doing that, but it doesn't mean people who don't have some ulterior motive.

[Elyse]

Except I did explain myself

And that's just shitty

[Elyse]

You didn't catch her because of her 'over-reaction.' It was clear that Math was scum, and you could have easily just bussed them for freelo. It's MyLo today, so all you need is a single mislynch, and boom, you win.

This.

Math was on everyone's radars. You didn't catch them.

Bussing and trying to take me down was your best move.

I explained my read was mostly gut and that Egg reaching out to me to ask why Math was "confscum" was town of him when he could have easily turned on me and won the game.

[Elyse]

Yes they would have

[Elyse]

And the point of bussing is to do just that soooooo

[Elyse]

Elyse is simply telling you what you want to hear. She's propping you up as this amazing, beautiful beacon of town light and showering you with ATE, which is all she's been doing for the entirety of the game. I flat-out told you in no uncertain terms that I'm frustrated and that you should better determine who's honestly trying to read you and who's buddying you. Any above-average scumhunter would see the stark contrast between how Elyse treated you and how I did when you came into the game this morning. You want me to do what Elyse is doing, tell you that you are awesome, that you would make an amazing delicious fluffy Ham and Cheese Omelette once we put you on a frying pan etc. That's not how town behaves. I have been trying to convince you by providing evidence for my reads and explaining in-depth where I'm coming from and every time you post, you basically snipe at the most non-alignment-indicative things and miss my point entirely.

Pedit: you gotta be kidding me. Scum's best play is to nk you because to Elyse, you are confirmed town.

What the fuck are you talking about

I want quotes

You're fucking making things up to make me look bad

[Elyse]

Also saying that scum's best option is to kill Egg is so FAKE because if that were true you would shut up and vote no lynch so Egg dies

[Elyse]

Ok cool ignore my request for quotes showing that

[Elyse]

V/LA until Sunday

[Elyse]

Just checking in...looks like I missed some awkward AtE from Wingback. Nice.

I won't be able to post like I usually do until Sunday. Moving back to school and getting drunk off my ass and such

[Elyse]

Omg

We finally have a replacement and he townreads Wingback for putting in effort

Oh sweetie

[Elyse]

Hi

I probably won't be able to post too much until Friday

but

MathBlade is most likely scum.

Ngl I am paranoid of a Wingback/Expedience team but MathBlade's all over the place D4 and pleads for a NL make me confident he's scum.

Wingback being all "I'm ready for the mega battle between me and Elyse tomorrow" makes me sure this is the team as well. There's nothing to really prove that Expedience is town now (outside of Wingback and MathBlade being hella scummy) that Hoopla is dead and town, yet Wingback is assuming that it's going to be me/him/Egg in LyLo. It reeks of scum knowing what's going to happen.

[Elyse]

Wingback/Expedience is possibly but unlikely

[Elyse]

Elyse don't you think Wing would be more likely to take Expedience to LYLO than me if he's scum?

Eh probably but then again that's mostly WIFOM. Cause if he takes you, it might make you think "hmm Elyse would totes take me" and vote me. And vice versa.

But the way he's saying "we'll get to that later" when talking about your read on me makes it seem like he's thinking of taking you.

[Elyse]

I don't see AtE as a scumtell like a lot of people on this site seem to do. I think townies and scum are equally likely to plead and AtE when their lives are on the line.

It's only scummy when it's deliberate, like what Wingback is doing now.

[Elyse]

Here's an idea. Why don't you bus your partner?

Also, self-meta =/= ATE. I'd only bring it up under the most dire and critical circumstances because outling the differences between my town and scum play and basically showing people the differences isn't something that anyone would be comfortable with.

You are AtEing like a motherfucker. Stfu

Also you're scummy as FUCK for asking me to vote Math and allow him to hammer himself if he's scum - like you believe - without letting Expedience post.

[Elyse]

Hey Math Egg and I could hammer you or Wingback right now

You're desperate

[Elyse]

oh my god

what if it's expedience/wingback

[Elyse]

Wait no that doesn't make sense

[Elyse]

So I'm confident Math is scum

But I need to figure out if it's Expedience using Wingback's insane tunnel vision to turn the lynch on me today, or Wingback using Expedience's willingness to vote me to turn the lynch on me today.

I'm assuming either was planning on lynching Math and going to LyLo with me and someone else and gunning for me. But the sudden "actually let's lynch Elyse" despite the possible rolestopper is sending up major alarm bells.

[Elyse]

Nah I don't think so anymore.

At first the sudden "Ok I'll vote Elyse " made me think they were scum together, but then there's no reason to switch to me when MathBlade is an easy lynch.

What do you think about that?

[Elyse]

VOTE: MathBlade

btw

[Elyse]

Well I think Math is a safe bet since you're not scum and Expedience/Wing probably aren't scum together.

If Wing is town then yeah Expedience and Math can just hammer me

Math and Wingback can't both be town so really the only vote that can allow scum to hammer is Wingback! How surprising! If he was town you'd think he'd consider that.

/inb4 "I don't care if you're hammered, I know you're scum!!!!!"

P-edit: yeah

[Elyse]

I kind of hope the scumteam is Math/Expedience just so I can rub it in Wingback's face post-game

Not that I think that's the case but it would be delicious

@Expedience
I'm reaching out to you because I think you're actually probably town. Wingback literally said, "Let's lynch MathBlade first because if he's rolestopper then it will confirm Elyse is scum." And then he switches on to me and endangers the game if you were actually scum.

If you vote me the game is over. MathBlade hammers and they win. Are you THAT confident that the team is me/MathBlade rather than Wingback/MathBlade that you'd risk lynching me first just to satisfy Wingback's ego?

Ball's in your court.

[Elyse]

Sorry Wingback couldn't hear you from up there on your horse

This behavior would be disgusting if you were town and the only reason you'll avoid a postgame scolding from me is because I can be a bitch when scum to advance my wincon.

P-edit:
Correct...

[Elyse]

I'm not talking about that.

I'm talking about treating Egg like a fucking idiot for disagreeing with you. I get what you're trying to do by appealing to the majority and saying "EVERYONE SEES THE SCUMTEAM EXCEPT FOR YOU" and making him think he's missing something obvious when you're actually just manipulative scum. It's worked before I'm sure, just not a style I'm fond of.

[Elyse]

That's what you keep on doing: I point out something about you that's scummy, you don't address it and instead try to fabricate a reason that I'm scum. It's ridiculous if no one sees it

Also if you haven't noticed,

Egg is already voting MathBlade so me "turning him against you" isn't necessary.

Unless you're thinking about LyLo, but you're taking Expedience so that shouldn't be an issue.

[Elyse]

You still have yet to point out where I'm massaging his ego. I asked you for quotes multiple times and you ignored me. Maaaybe you can say I defended him in the last few posts but that's only because your attitude is pissing ME off.

And what are you talking about? You don't think making someone feel like they're stupid for thinking something ISN'T a valid attempt to change their mind????? ARE YOU KIDDING ME RIGHT NOW????

[Elyse]

No you haven't. And you just refused again. And I already said you could maybe say my latest posts were in support of Egg. So your entire post right there is invalid.

How is me saying that you're pissing me off a low blow? I play mafia to have fun and you're making me uncomfortable by berating Egg.

[Elyse]

I'm not painting you as a bad person. You're doing everything yourself. You can't act like an asshole and blame ME for it. I don't care what Egg thinks. This goes beyond the game.

Once again you have refused to provide quotes of me massaging Egg's ego

[Elyse]

HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES ARE YOU GOING TO IGNORE ME ASKING YOU TO SHOW WHERE IVE STROKED EGG'S EGO?

Also lol @ me making up you being an asshole. I'm hoping you have an iota of self awareness and are just scum playing it up to try to intimidate Egg.

[Elyse]

That's kinda hard when you're scum. Unless you self vote

[Elyse]

Wing is being an asshole and calling me scum for calling him out

[Elyse]

Except that's not what you did

And yet again you have REFUSED to show me stroking Egg's ego.

@Expedience
See how he's doing this. He's scum who's lying and can't back up his biggest argument.

[Elyse]

I'm talking about before today because you've been saying it for a while now. I will give me one moment

[Elyse]

Mathblade is scum or we've already lost though.

Also not sure how I'm "all over the place" but ok lol

I'm trying to guard against you losing us the game in LYLO. What don't you get?

All this game, I've been trying and trying to make you see sense and you're playing so badly I've ran out of ways to show you that I'm town.

Now, someone replaced in who at least has correct reads. If Expedience votes Elyse, town win is pretty much guaranteed because Math's lack of hammer will confirm them as the scumteam and no amount of incorrect reads from you will change that.

Now you want to rush and vote Math? Wtf dude? Do you so badly want to lose you are trying to obstruct every single thing I do to win despite you?

If it were math/expedience, all they need to do is get online together and vote you or elyse. Why even give them that opportunity? Being "100% confident" is unnecessarily cocky at this point.

Not being able to solve the game even in LYLO is unnecessarily bad play. Ffs Egg, it's not Math/Expedience. It's Math/Elyse.

Sometimes I wished you were the one who replaced out. That would give us a much better chance of winning.

To claim that this game is unbearable for YOU when you've been doing your utter best to drive me up the wall and lose us this game is rich coming from you.

And you don't know where I'll vote in LYLO. Quit acting like you do or like I'm some newb who has never played before. I've heard your arguements. I'm not skipping over it just because I'm not talking about all 2 million of your words. I don't see how you think I've played badly. We've lynched one scum and I voted masq from the very beginning. I had to twist your arm to make a standard play and no lynch at 6p LYLO. Now we have a very good chance to hit scum today and my vote is there and yours isn't. I want to lynch math now because I know no one's reads are perfect and if we are lynching math anyway (we are unless scum fucks us), why wait and give a potential math/expedience team a chance to win? Your condescending attitude is the biggest thing that will hurt us in this game especially if you and elyse are both town. It's not impossible.

It's not that I think you are newb. It's that for some goddamn reason, you are eating up everything Elyse is spewing when she's so obviously scum it's not funny. I explained this in depth. You didn't even give me the courtesy of acknowledging it. BBMolla nailed the team. My predecessor (Seraphim) nailed the team. A new replacement walked into the game and nailed the team.

But for whatever reason, everytime Elyse posts, you nod your head and go "yeah, that's a good argument" when she posts the most nonsensically inane things ever. I'm not going to sit by and not try every possible way to win. If I can game the system so that Elyse/Mathblade are confirmed scum to make you see sense, then that's what I'm going to to. I just need Expedience to have faith in me.

You played badly because the entirety of D3, you were tunneling obvtown in a way that basically killed her motivation to play and eventually made me paranoid that she gave up on the game. Then for ten straight days, I was trying to tell you to lynch Elyse and you wouldn't. I gave in and said "at least lynch Mathblade" and you wouldn't do that either despite Mathblade being so obvscum and just creating chaos, you no lynched because it's "safe" and you couldn't figure out who the scumteam was.

Math/Expedience are not the damn scumteam. I explained this to you repeatedly why. I showed you meta-links that show Mathblade's treatment of BBMolla clears him. You are ignoring that too. You basically want to lynch Mathblade because we'd lose anyways.

So, if you want to tunnel town, you do it day in and day out. But when I show you obvscum and tell you to vote them, you act all paralyzed and unable to vote. I'm at the end of my rope dealing with your inability to scumhunt this game. Like, can you not read the thread and figure out who the scum are?

I get the whole argument about how it's also important for townies to be transparent but if I were any more transparent here, I'd be invisible.

[Elyse]

Yeah cause that totally explains why he's switching from lynching you to me when lynching you would win us the game.

I swear to god if I'm lynched over MathBlade...he's not even trying to look town at this point

[Elyse]

Good try Math