Newbie 1732 [Game Over!]: InnocentVille

[shannon]

I will only move off TNE if we get to a situation like yesterday, where we're at deadline and need to get the lynch. If I am tonight's NK, lynch TNE tomorrow.

[thenewearth]

or we could just lynch implosion

[Cass]

Tne, what would be your top three of people to lynch today?
Anyone else feel free to post a top three too.

[shannon]

More Lynchable

TNE - reasons already given
Implosion - reasons already given, though TNE suggesting we lynch him puts me off a bit. I still like these two for a team
Drone - nullish
Cass - nullish
PP - I don't think he's scummy but it seems there's a wagon
Astralflare - looks pretty towny to me
Chrimi - uncontested BP claim, don't lynch the closest we have to conf town

Less Lynchable

[shannon]

Oh and in reply to Drone 612, a question I haven't seen anyone else answer -

I personally would use FOS if a player is at L-1 or L-2 and I'm thinking of joining their wagon, but want to give them the opportunity to redeem themselves. Sometimes (IMHO) I think if a wagon looks too certain, people just give up and accept it, which is bad for town.

Some people use FOS for their second scum read (so voting someone and pointing FOS at someone else), or they might have two solid scum reads and then some other 'dodgy looking' people they will FOS, making FOS a step below null but above a full scum read.

You should use FOS, or not, however you think best.

[Cass]

I might use FoS if I want to dealy lynch or l-1, but would more likely just say so. I use FoS more often if I see someone do a single very scummy thing, then turn it into a vote if they don't provide a good explanation.

[Cass]

Hm, I think if TNE is scum, it's with Chrime, and they set up the current situation together. But if so, at least one of us would know Chrime was lying. It's not impossible, but for today I'm going with assuming this is not the case.

So, under that assumption (meaning I'm ignoring Chrime and tne for now), my lynch-top three is:
- Drone
- Implosion
- Astral Flare

And I wouldn't mind if we started speeding it up. If TNE isn't going to clarify herself today - am I right about that impression, tne? Then I think we won't get more information by dragging this out. But day 3, we might just have much more to go on.

@PP stop lying low and give us some reads and a vote please.

@AF I would really like to see your top three too. What are your opinions of Implosion and Drone?

@Implosion If deadline was imminent, would you 'try' to lynch drone? Or do you see a smarter choice?

@shannon would you in general be ok with delaying a TNE lynch until Day 3, or do you feel it is too risky?

@thenewearth: do you also feel this day will yield no more information than it already has?

@Chrimi: What do you think are the odds that tne is scum? What is your scum top three?

@Drone: Do you think that if Chrime is scum, tne would be her partner and vice versa? Would you mind voting someone that looks like a good lynch for today?

[AstralFlare]

Implosion
PP
TNE/Drone

[shannon]

Replying to Cass - -

"Hm, I think if TNE is scum, it's with Chrime, and they set up the current situation together. But if so, at least one of us would know Chrime was lying. It's not impossible, but for today I'm going with assuming this is not the case."

Agreed, I don't think TNE and Chrimi are a team. I don't support a Chrimi lynch without TNE going first because I think at this stage we have to allow Chrimi's unchallenged claim to stand. But, I think the flip will be revealing. (If TNE flips town, question Chrimi strongly about the claim).

@shannon would you in general be ok with delaying a TNE lynch until Day 3, or do you feel it is too risky?

Well, if I'm right about TNE being scum I think I'm toast tonight and it might make things a bit difficult for me to get him lynched D3! I want to point out that he still hasn't responded to my very first case against him.

I also want to point out that we could potentially lose this N3, and we need to be very careful to lynch correctly and to defend our PRs.

At the moment we are 6:2 town:scum, and getting it wrong today would make it 5:2, with 4:2 after a night kill. A mislynch D3 would leave 3:2, and then the night kill hands it to scum.

Based on Chrimi's claim, we have either a JK or a Tracker in this setup. I'm going to do some reading about what our optimal plays are here, given that a role claim would eliminate any advantage we have as our power roles aren't protectable.

The other possibility is that Chrimi sensed what TNE was up to with her questions about the BP, and quickly claimed so as to protect the Doc + Cop, and those two roles are keeping quiet because they know Chrimi is taking one for the team. If this is the case I would encourage those two players to keep their roles quiet for as long as possible, but cop, if you exist, please don't forget to share your results before you die!

[PenguinPower]

Implosion

: I don't like his use of incorrect information to paint me as scummy. He's saying that "Oops, I didn't realize." But I don't think that's the case since, as shannon pointed out, he did it to her to. null scum

Drone

: Not much has changed since my read on the slot when Rocnix was here. Drone's reads still allow him to shift as needed. I'm his scummiest, but he still hasn't provided a case...sheeping implosion. Scum lean

Shannon

: Town. Town town town. I like her arguments and I like her reads.

Cass

: I have to say that I'm starting to think this slot as more town since Jibs left as she is providing a lot more rationale and logic, and I no longer see that off-putting fake niceness. Sees Drone as scummy. Null for now.

Chrimi

: Claimed BP with no CC. Nothing to see here.

AstralFlare

: Seems to be focused on me and tne, but his pushing seems towny. I think I have been participating, but yes, I haven't provided reads or a vote so that's fair. I dislike his scum read of implosion as that seemed too opportunistic...still Lean town.

thenewearth

: I believe my town read on her based on the other game is wrong and she's like this as town and scum. I know another player who is like that, and it's frustrating. I pretty much see everything from post 565 as unhelpful and trying to cause confusion. It really bothers me that her responses to my questions are "you'll learn from experience" or nothing at all. That's not helpful.

TNE
Drone
Implosion

VOTE: thenewearth

That's

L-1

, I believe. Answer our questions and stop being so unhelpful.

[implosion]

Hm, I think if TNE is scum, it's with Chrime, and they set up the current situation together. But if so, at least one of us would know Chrime was lying. It's not impossible, but for today I'm going with assuming this is not the case.

So, under that assumption (meaning I'm ignoring Chrime and tne for now),

I really dislike this reasoning; do you really find it so definite that tne-scum implies chrimi-scum that that alone is reason to ignore tne for today? I'll yet again reference my earlier argument that partner hunting without flips is terrible practice.

@Implosion If deadline was imminent, would you 'try' to lynch drone? Or do you see a smarter choice?

At this and your other question about lynching tne at deadline, I sort of have trouble answering them because I can't really imagine my reads being in the state that they're in at this moment close to deadline; I mean, for instance, you've been in this game for 4 RL days. Drone is in a similar situation having replaced in at the end of d1. I still need to sort both of you; I didn't really have strong opinions on your predecessors at the times they were replaced so I need to engage with both of you more. If it were about to be deadline I would hammer tne; if it were like a few days off I would be considering you, Drone, tne, and maybe AF and trying to discriminate between you more closely because right now I think I'm satisfied enough with PP's reaction to me to call him town (there's also one other reason that I've neglected to mention which is that the way his tne read has evolved looks genuine, and I think that him metaing her earlier was probably a towntell but I had been putting it in the back of my mind and remembered it on reread). I'm happy with shannon and chrimi as town right now as well.

So eh. Deadline isn't imminent and the game state would be different if it was.

[implosion]

I don't like his use of incorrect information to paint me as scummy. He's saying that "Oops, I didn't realize." But I don't think that's the case since, as shannon pointed out, he did it to her to.

And as I pointed out in response, I didn't actually do this to shannon. I think we just reached a misunderstanding on that point.

Implosion
PP
TNE/Drone

I'd like a bit more elaboration on this as well; from what I can read of your posts today, you seem to think that the way I'm acting is indicative of me being scum with PP, but you also described my play as being unlikely to come from scum who was angling for a mislynch. Has this just changed since I jumped off the wagon? If not, then why am I listed higher than PP, if my being scum is contingent on my being scum with PP? Do you have reason to scumread me individually at this point? Do you have reason to scumread PP individually at this point? Why is Drone on the same level as TNE? Last thing I can see you directly saying about him is calling him a misguided townie.

[shannon]

With TNE at L-1 (I'm just assuming that PP's count is right), here are the questions I'd like answers to:

1) Why draw us in to role speculation, after calling it anti-town late on D1? My contention is that you are scum and your team was thrown off by lack of a NK, so you're now willing to risk questions like that.

2) Why did you fail to address my initial accusation that you were scum and fishing for roles? I even pinned it down to which team I thought you were in. If you think it's a ridiculous accusation, you could at least take the time to explain why.

3) After her uncontested BP claim, why call Chrimi as pseudo innocent child, and then say you'd like to lynch her? This seems like a big contradiction.

4) What do you mean by PR solvable, and why did you try to paint implosion as scum for not knowing what it means?

5) Why are you being cryptic instead of engaging with the rest of us in a productive way? Saying thinks like 'you'll learn one day' doesn't help the town team you're playing with now. I'm reading over your posts again and I can't see anything that hints at a PR crumb, so there's got to be some other reason.

I think it's coming to a time when you need to make a substantive contribution to the game or you're going to get lynched. If you're town, this is your chance to make a real case to defend yourself. Even better, make a substantive case on someone else. I won't accept three line posts, cryptic stuff, and 'you'll see' as answers. Your play isn't doing anything to help town, and I regret that I was one who town read you yesterday.

[Drone]

I'll start off with stating that I'm commenting on PP's ISO.
Took me some time, I'm very sorry. Been tight on time lately.

Implosion's case on you has been answered by you in day 1, where you've been explaining that you're taking a new turn in your playstyle.
You did change it, it's very visible and unlike the other two games, you've been actually quite helpful to town.
It is entirely my idiocy that I haven't read and processed what I read well enough to jump on Implosion's "case" against you.

You are, perhaps the strongest town read player I currently have. And while Jibs would have been a target for a lynch now, Cass' play is a 180 degrees flip and doesn't allow me scum read her.
By the way. Yes, Rocnix was mysteriously ranked most town by Jibs (181), especially since she hadn't contributed much at all.
Cass whatsoever, covered it up with her constant, logical and reasonable scum hunting (if it is towards me, yes.)
I fail to see how much I contribute too. This burdens me a bit and I'm willing to do something about it.
I'll begin with answers to the questions given to me.

[shannon]

OK, a question for Drone:

If Jibs was a scum read ('target for a lynch right now') and Cass in the same slot is a town read, what makes you decide that the slot is town? Could it not also be that Jibs was just a bad scum player, but Cass is an excellent one?

This bit I don't quite understand, could you please give me a simpler version? Are you saying that Cass is doing good scum hunting and that's why you read the slot as town now?

"Cass whatsoever, covered it up with her constant, logical and reasonable scum hunting (if it is towards me, yes.)"

PS - don't be afraid to ask questions, even of your town reads, even if they seem silly

[Chrimi]

Semi v/la, only very shitty mobile access for a couple days. Apologies

[Drone]

That is exactly what I am saying. If Jibs/Cass is scum, then there's a huge scum slip in (181), if town, Cass is definitely covering up bad plays, and successfully.
In fact against Cass, there is just nothing I can call scummy. Even the points against me.
And, as a replacement, I know Cass can't answer questions to Jibs like Jibs can.
But if I am allowed to ask unnecessarily silly question.
@Cass
As Jibs, why would he rate Rocnix/me so low? Even context less posts (Rocnix's) are considered scummy.

@tne, we can't confirm which build this exactly is, but we do have an uncc'ed role. Why you want her lynched..? I really don't get it much.

[Chrimi]

Intent to hammer if TNE doesn't give a satisfactory response.

[thenewearth]

Don't make me do things bzzt

[thenewearth]

Why you want her lynched..?

Is everyone actually ignoring the fact that I never voted her?

Wanting to vote her =/= wanting to lynch her btw :/

[shannon]

Why didn't you vote Chrimi then?

[shannon]

And can you please explain what you mean by PR solvable?

[thenewearth]

Why didn't you vote Chrimi then?

Because she claimed BP

And I spiritually wanna vote her but she's town so no

And can you please explain what you mean by PR solvable?

Matrix6 is somehow breakable 80% of the time

[shannon]

What do you mean by 'spiritually'? Is she giving you vibes? Are you reading bad things in your tea leaves?

[thenewearth]

What do you mean by 'spiritually'?

I mean I just hate the BP role in general