Newbie 1732 [Game Over!]: InnocentVille

[PenguinPower]

Wait what? So according to you we lynched tne for nothing? Are you sure you're still with us?

I voted for TNE because I thought she was scum. What did her flipping town tell you/highlight for you?

Well then if he didn't do anything to change you're reads, what has he done to make you read him town? I don't see it..

You can read my last readlist.

Ouch. This one just... Like... Completely deleted every town read I had on you.
You don't know why we lynched tne, you don't give any meaningful points and your general blabbery about things we've gone over makes me wanna switch my vote. Really bad.

Um...what?

[PenguinPower]

Drone & Cass scumteam, anyways?

No. It's implosion and Drone.

[Drone]

The last comment was an overall comment on that post. Should have commented outside I guess.

I'm mostly worried about pp's opinion on tne flip, that it doesn't give us anything new. I could only guess pp already knew tne was town.. Scum much?

Edit in preview:
Based on..?
I kinda agree with Chrimi's interpretation of Implosion's play as towny.

Also read 857 to answer your question. You obviously don't even read.

[PenguinPower]

Also read 857 to answer your question. You obviously don't even read.

This?:

Thoughts on tne flip:
We didn't lose a big contributor. But her death contributed to my understanding that were back to square 1 again.

You literally say the exact same thing I said about the flip...

[Drone]

No. I didn't talk about the wagon. I don't care for the wagon.
What I said was referring the flip. Her being town messes our findings so far a bit.
I don't know what you tried to get from the wagon read when the wagon was solely made for information, which is why tne didn't even bother posting much against it.
She did give her own "town list" though, which I directly referred to in my post on af.
This was what triggered me to reread his ISO, and conclude the conclusion I posted earlier.

You come up saying I'm scum, according to?

[Drone]

But, you are right. I didn't say the lynch for crucial.
It was crucial.

[Drone]

Ebwodp:
Didn't say the lynch was **

[Cass]

I did not lynch TNE for information, we knew beforehand that a town flip would not give much. I honestly hoped she'd flip scum, against my instincts. If I was scum with drone, why would I have opposed a tne lynch at all? I'd have pushed it through quickly and hammered much sooner. There was a perfectly convincing case to be made there, not that anyone really bothered.

So: PP, Chrimi, Astralflare - shall we lynch Drone today? I mean, he is being quite obvious now, amirite?

VOTE: Drone

[Drone]

Being obvious?
Do you even read? One of the main reasons behind tne's lynch was to shed light on night 1.
With Shannon's claim and the calculations afterwards led to the conclusion that a tne lynch would be most profitable to town.
With tne's flip, a few "scenarios" are now voided, leaving us with two main scenarios.
1)Chrimi is the BP, blocked a nk and we're dealing with goon/rb
2)tne was saved, Chrimi remains quite questionable and we might be dealing with goon/goon.

See? Without a tne flip we'd be cycling through scenarios and probability lists with no leads.
tne was somewhat anti-town and I did contribute my part on her lynch, fully believing in what I'm doing.

I did not lynch TNE for information, we knew beforehand that a town flip would not give much. I honestly hoped she'd flip scum, against my instincts. If I was scum with drone, why would I have opposed a tne lynch at all? I'd have pushed it through quickly and hammered much sooner. There was a perfectly convincing case to be made there, not that anyone really bothered.

So: PP, Chrimi, Astralflare - shall we lynch Drone today? I mean, he is being quite obvious now, amirite?

VOTE: Drone

That would have been a very, very very foolish scum, which you are not at least in my opinion.

What's your case on me again?

[Drone]

And just to remind you, that repetitive possibility chart cycle made you think of a no-lynch.
Which was a terrible idea.

[implosion]

So: PP, Chrimi, Astralflare - shall we lynch Drone today? I mean, he is being quite obvious now, amirite?

VOTE: Drone

This level of directness (directing this towards the three specific people she's townreading) is, I think, indicative of scum who sees what they think to be the easiest way to win the game (note that this doesn't preclude cass+drone scum if her plan is to bus drone then lynch me tomorrow) and is pushing it. I really just don't see this degree of strong confidence from town in this situation in mylo when we've yet to find any scum and only really have one person that we can be confident in for setup reasons. Her casually putting me at L-2 as well - it just feels too forward and too confident for town in this position. To a degree this is burden of proficiency but she should know not to put someone at L-2 less than 12 hours into mylo when we have no concrete information. The fact that she voted and then unvoted just feels so off. Town here should be really scared to vote. If she's willing to unvote when someone mentions it's mylo, as town, she never should have voted me in the first place.

@Pengiunpower, I see where you're coming from with the points on me deflecting for Drone, but that just isn't how I would play as scum. Some of the posts you quoted aren't me deflecting at all, either. 498 was literally just a comment that happened to mention him, it had nothing to do with people calling him scum. 636 was me asking for a justification, not defending him. Ultimately it's just one of the slots that I've been having more trouble reading. That's why I voted him and then unvoted when something else came along, that's why I've mentioned so many things that I haven't been able to read about him. I also went back and forth on Rocnix because I saw things that made me feel both ways.

Right now if I were to make a guess I'd say cass/drone. Second would be a tossup between cass/af and cass/pp. But I really do think cass's play is scummy.

[implosion]

Oh, and @this:

Shouldn't you have expressly stated that you were speaking as an IC in that moment? You did state that you would mark any IC posts specifically as IC posts...

Yes. I've been having a bit of trouble with posts that I felt were on the borderline where I've been saying things that are both my opinion and IC information. But given that it was becoming muddled, I felt like it was important to make it clear what the term "clear" means on mafiascum.

It's irrelevant anyway. I'm not trying to muddle Chrimi's alignment. As I've said, I can't imagine myself voting her. I just want to be clear on semantics. I don't think she's clear; I do confidently think she's town.

[Chrimi]

VOTE: Cass

Join me, implosion?

[PenguinPower]

But I really do think cass's play is scummy.

You mention the level of directness in this post causes you to view Cass as scummy, but what else is it?

Absent her start to today and my gut feeling of her being off the wagon (although I later noticed that AF was also not voting at all) I don't see a whole lot of scummy behavior. Though, I have to consider that she's in Jibs slot and I did not like that slot when he was here...but gut says that's more disliking the playstyle.

[implosion]

You mention the level of directness in this post causes you to view Cass as scummy, but what else is it?

I mean, I explained it beyond just the directness in the following paragraph. Her start to today and her having been off the wagon together account for a lot of her play. I also discussed her vote on me being opportunistically scummy here (which, as Chrimi said, can be summarized by saying that her push on me looks like she was lining up mislynches on me and tne), and here near the end I highlight another thing which is actually a trend in her play: she tends to ask a lot of questions that don't have any obvious discriminatory power (i.e., that aren't clearly useful for scumhunting):

Question for everyone: if today were the deadline, do you think we should lynch tne?

@thenewearth: do you also feel this day will yield no more information than it already has?

Unrelated question: Do you think now would be a good time for a lynch, or would a longer day benefit town more?

The second of these in particular comes from 631 which has a question for everyone, lots of asking about reads. Essentially it feels like Cass asks a very large number of questions and doesn't really use all of the responses. In particular the questions I quoted here don't really have any purpose; I don't really imagine her reading people based off of their answers to these questions (although she's free to prove me wrong if she can discern anything based on those answers) and they don't give her any more information about peoples' reads/etc. I feel like she asks a lot of questions so as to appear very busy, while many of the questions are either directly asking people for their reads (most of the time these are discernable from prior posting) or just asking for useless information.

Join me, implosion?

In due time. At this point she is my preferred lynch but I want to hear more of what people think of her and more from her.

And it would be kind of silly for me to vote her at this point after I criticized her for voting so hastily. I do think this day deserves a bit more time before drilling down.

[innocentvillager]

Mod Notes

	VOTECOUNT 3.1
Player	Being voted by (in chronological order)	Number of Votes
1. Cass	Chrimi	1
2. AstralFlare	Drone	1
3. PenguinPower
5. Drone	Cass	1
6. Chrimi
9. implosion

Not voting: AstralFlare, PenguinPower, implosion

Deadline to lynch is in (expired on 2016-09-19 19:32:54).

With 6 eligible to vote, it's 4 to lynch

Please let me know if there are errors in the VC, or have any other questions in general. Don't forget to bold such requests to me.

[Drone]

@Implosion and Chrimi
My vote on AstralFlare feels comfy until further notice from him, I feel like I'm on to something.
I kinda believe it's af/Cass mafia and since Cass already is on L-2 and we haven't heard anything of neither af or Cass, I guess it's optimal to stay on af at least for now.
Since pp didn't vote Cass yet, I guess it's okay to keep Cass at L-2, I would also like a longer day. Want some answers..
By the way af and Cass share this "filler" posting similarity.
Or I'm the only one seeing this in af?

[Drone]

@Implosion
About me/Cass;
If I was scum with Cass and she'd be digging under me like she did day 2, she'd be way too obvious with her attempt at a bus. Although as Jibs and Rocnix, I'd think as you do (#181).
I really don't think Cass would be so obvious, it's almost a newbie slip.

[Chrimi]

@Implosion and Chrimi
My vote on AstralFlare feels comfy until further notice from him, I feel like I'm on to something.
I kinda believe it's af/Cass mafia and since Cass already is on L-2 and we haven't heard anything of neither af or Cass, I guess it's optimal to stay on af at least for now.
Since pp didn't vote Cass yet, I guess it's okay to keep Cass at L-2, I would also like a longer day. Want some answers..
By the way af and Cass share this "filler" posting similarity.
Or I'm the only one seeing this in af?

No, you're not the only one. I'm following your reads every step of the way, and I'm really starting to like you for town.

implosion, Drone and Chrimi townpool any one?

Cass or AF lynch today please.

Though if it's PP and someone else instead I'll c r y

[Drone]

My bad, Implosion didn't vote Cass. She's L-3.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: implosion

I'm going to put this on implosion for now so my vote is down. This is my best guess right now, but I'll go back and re-read Cass as implosion pointed out her weak questioning, and my already sitting on the fence. My only problem with that is if Cass is scum, who is her partner...I don't think AF is scum, but it could be possible. It obviously cannot be Chrimi. Cass/Drone doesn't make sense to me. It could be Cass/Implosion, but he makes a good point as to why his vote isn't on her yet.

@mod, can we get a prod on AF

AF, I'd like to hear what you have to say about Cass at this point.

[Cass]

@Chrimi: Funny, my 'townpool' is you, me and AF. Not good, though, except for whoever the scum really are.

@Everyone: Look, I'm being aggressive and sometimes a bit random on purpose. It's because so many here are being super careful and hard to read - there's no brilliant plan, but I try to get some responses to indeed let me read people better, to understand their choices better and be able to judge them. I was aware putting someone on L-2 carries a risk atm, but I chose to take that risk, just in case I could catch a scum or confirm a town. Risk taking right now is not scummy, because all scum have to do in this situation is sit back quietly, sip their drinks and wait until two townies agree on the wrong person - like maaaybe chrimi and implosion are doing here when discussing me - and note how Drone is also subtly pushing it. What I think is this is Drone & Imp quietly hoping AF or PP will jump on, and then it'll all be over very fast.
Now after I put a second vote on Implosion, Drone came in and voted AF. he mentioned it was L-2, but gave no opinion on that or on Implosion. PP came in and said L-2 was bad, didn't vote anyone. Then I took my vote off, just in case, because I really feel those posts support Implosion as scum, with Drone. And no, I wouldn't have taken that risk if I hadn't really thought he is scum.

But look what Drone does when he sees the situation: he notes it, then he makes a case on another (distracting), but carefully doesn't give any opinion on Implosion (distancing). Shouldn't he take a stance there, like: 'Take it off! He's probably town! We'll lose!' or: 'Hm, it should be fine, he's probably scum'.
PP only chips in to tell me to take it off, because he hasn't had time to read. This makes me think he's town - scum would just lurk a bit longer, check back in an hour to see if he can hammer - unless PP is scum with Implosion.

What we also learned, is that a Drone/PP scumteam is unlikely.

Now I should build an actual case - I know I haven't, and I'm sorry. Been pretty busy with RL stuff - too much rushed and tablet-posting recently. I hope to find the time tonight (about 4 hours from now) to make a proper post.

(Also at me being scum with Drone or Implosion - I want them both dead. And wtf would scum bus their partner in this situation - when town is already attacking town. Also Yuck @Implosion for keeping to throw that 'lining up lynches' crap on me to see if it will stick.)

[Drone]

Uh.. If you didn't notice, I thought Implosion did vote you and didn't want someone to hammer you before anyone else could do anything.
Rushing at these critical times is bad.
Besides, I said I believe you're scum with af, and explained why af is my current choice.
Also here's a new point: You take risks at a mylo? What would you gain from them if someone would have actually hammered Implosion? What kind of information is of use when the game is already over?

Btw about Implosion: it just so happens that when he posts something, it's so detailed and understandable that I don't need to ask anything. He already answers.
But there was this pp/Implosion interaction where I objected his point and found pp very towny (I regret it so much after his last post).
So yeah, I ram those I feel like I deserve information from. Or just disagree...

I push both of you and AstralFlare but very carefully. I do not hide it and happily admit it. I ship af/Cass mafia and want to lynch one of you. You didn't make any new point just elaborated literally what I've been doing and added some words to make it sound like scummy behaviour.

[Cass]

Uh.. If you didn't notice, I thought Implosion did vote you and didn't want someone to hammer you before anyone else could do anything.
Rushing at these critical times is bad.

You mean you didn't want to be third on the wagon right after your buddy and were hoping for another townie vote first?

Besides, I said I believe you're scum with af, and explained why af is my current choice.
Also here's a new point: You take risks at a mylo? What would you gain from them if someone would have actually hammered Implosion? What kind of information is of use when the game is already over?

Trust me, I was keeping an eye on the game to unvote if necessary.

I push both of you and AstralFlare but very carefully. I do not hide it and happily admit it. I ship af/Cass mafia and want to lynch one of you. You didn't make any new point just elaborated literally what I've been doing and added some words to make it sound like scummy behaviour.

Do you understand how I (being town) can see this as you and implosion coordinating the lynch on me? The one that would win you the game? You know, assuming for the sake of the argument that you two were scum - it would make sense, no?

[Cass]

Right now if I were to make a guess I'd say cass/drone. Second would be a tossup between cass/af and cass/pp. But I really do think cass's play is scummy.

So... basically you'd link me to anyone (except Chrimi, because doubting her got you under fire before...), as long as it gets me lynched, right? Because it takes only one mislynch right now, so who cares, right?

And it would be kind of silly for me to vote her at this point after I criticized her for voting so hastily. I do think this day deserves a bit more time before drilling down.

Yes, that would indeed be too obvious for you, not your style. Also, it's much smoother if another townie joins the wagon first. Btw, if you're going to lynch me, might as well do it quick. It really won't matter anymore how long the day was.