STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[mastin2]

mastin you wanna talk about chara?
That's the only read in the game that doesn't feel easy at this point.

It not being an easy read is exactly why I don't want to talk about Not Chara.

I'm not sure.
On the one hand: all the people who pushed Not Chara felt town. There was a point where there was a substantial wagon on it, and I felt like every name on it was town, so if it was also town the question would be where the scum were? (Aside from maybe RR who cheerleaded the wagon from the side and SirCakez who joined briefly.)
There's also a lot of early posting which felt "too serious": Not Chara, in contrast to players like Skybird, didn't look like it was having fun during the pregame so much, and was sticking out as a result. Plus, Not Chara's peacekeeping attempts in the lategame are hard to quantify, with some aspects looking like passive scum peacekeeping.

But on the other hand: a lot of the points in defense of Not Chara felt good, and I like the people defending Not Chara too (aside from some lategame from SirCakez, sort-of defending it). In particular, Not Chara made some incredibly-sincere-sounding posts in its midgame, and when the defenders pointed these out, I agreed with them, that tonality-wise, Not Chara was no longer reading as scum. It was at this point that I got a bad gut feeling about pushing there, that Not Chara might be the lynch actual scum players (like SirCakez and RR) wanted us to go onto, to help

eviscerate

town cohesion. As in, it felt like the plan was, "let the town lynch Not Chara. Enter into the middle after the ensuing chaos and take control", and that's why I immediately abandoned the push on it. Plus, its posting has gotten better as the game has progressed.

So, I really don't know at this stage. I really want more flips, more info, before I can tell anything.

[DrippingGoofball]

@Farside, Please don't end the day if you can.

I want to hear from DGB why we have no alliance. I need to get in sync with Beeboy. I also need to do the reread I promised Shiro.

You want to ally with me?

[Reasonably Rational]

Mastin. One word: SMITE.

Drixx, I really don't get how you can be so smart in some ways but utterly incompetent in others, and this is a comment which applies regardless of your alignment this game in this case.

If there's one thing you should've learned about me at this point...

...It's that trying to make me feel shitty about my past game failures doesn't work, so I really don't know why you bother to try. You're not going to convince any other players by mentioning them, and you're not going to make me feel bad by doing that, so I really don't get why you do this, regardless of what your alignment is.

Now, I just so

happen

to think this is a tactic you'd be more likely to employ as scum (it's a pretty despicable tactic and I'd like to think that you have a scum role PM to justify using it in the first place), but that's beside the point.

You've spent most of this game basically telling Cerb and I that we're in the bottom 0.01% of players, sorted by skill, on this site. You haven't said it in those words. It's just the implication of everything you've said. So if you want to talk about despicable, please check your glass house first.

I brought up SMITE to remind you that I know what I'm doing as scum and you wouldn't pick me out in the first 24 hours of a game. I prefer to view SMITE as very good play on my part rather than bad play on your part. I brought up the original SU to remind you that making assumptions that you don't actually have the information to safely assume can be a really bad thing. Both because you declared you would be conftown on day 3 (because you were getting a perma-alliance with us) and that was unsound because a scum also got into that alliance, and because WE made the assumption scum would not be given our identity on day 3 only for us to have to be absurdly lucky to survive long enough to become IC.

Remember that we approach the game rationally, inasmuch as possible.

~Drixx

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

A50: my slot is being voted because people are filled with the recklessness of success, and are therefore unwilling to think.

-Cerb

Pedit:farside, what part of that was shifty versus what drixx wrote? I gave you more detailsx and the only thing I can imagine you feel is bad about is is the fact that we thought we could trigger it last night and then found out we couldn't.

Our event has a limitation of only occurring after Episode 1. We asked Varsoon if that meant we could trigger our event on N1, for resolution during D2, and he said yes. This made me think the stress level was checked upon resolution, NOT triggering. He clarified when we tried to trigger it last night, in case stress rose enough over the night for it to resolve today.

Peditx2: what questions are we avoiding farside?

So far events have been triggered during the day, not at night.
That's why I am shifty about your clsim.
I asked you about doing my vig shot, which I said something about it day 2, why wouldn't I use it day 1 when cakez was sure to be lynched?
Your the player talking about a scum show that day.

I have an event that triggers at night.

Varsoona said that scumclaims will be good claims though. So having scum only have night events makes zero sense Farside.

I just figured he was lying about having the event.

His event is real regardless of his alignment. I'd rather, even if we're scumreading him, just force him to trigger his event, then kill him. That will force scum to keep conftown alive.

[mastin2]

@mastin: Is the above fake or really how I feel about the situation?

Mostly real.

You have reason to be frustrated regardless of alignment.

It just so happens that, because of that, it's also not alignment indicative.

[DrippingGoofball]

mastin is town, come on.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Farside, Please don't end the day if you can.

I want to hear from DGB why we have no alliance. I need to get in sync with Beeboy. I also need to do the reread I promised Shiro.

You want to ally with me?

WE were supposed to be allied today. What gives?

[Reasonably Rational]

@mastin: Is the above fake or really how I feel about the situation?

Mostly real.

You have reason to be frustrated regardless of alignment.

It just so happens that, because of that, it's also not alignment indicative.

Agreed, and accurate. Cool. I knew you'd know that, I just didn't want town to be stupid and accuse me of attempting to AtE my way out of a lynch when I don't do AtE.

-Cerb

pedit: Nobody has suggested that mastin isn't town DGB, except for kts in a moment of insanity in the middle of the day yesterday.

[grapes]

The funniest part about all of this.

FOXBIRD is the counterwagon.

[Reasonably Rational]

And ummm... peace out. I see no willingness for re-evaluation in anyone, which means no discussion about anything else is going to happen today, and I've already given my thoughts on reads. Our role utility will be gone so nothing I can do there either. That leaves me nothing to really do except emphasize the following:

You guys should really talk about the event that scum triggered because there's not a lot of time between now and the finale, and there's no way to know how many deaths will happen if no plan is made to keep it from succeeding.

Personal Note

: I'm pretty sure I'm done with this site as of this game for a long time if not forever. Too many people on this site are intentionally nasty and ugly as their default setting. I understand people getting heated in a back and forth, but when someone's default setting starts out at unpleasant and just gets worse, that's a problem, and in the time I've been on this site it has swung super heavily in the direction of elitism and if one isn't a part of the right clique, that person can be treated horribly. I'll just point at how Yume has been treated in this game and let that stand as a representative example.

~D

[grapes]

Oh give me a break.

[DrippingGoofball]

@Farside, Please don't end the day if you can.

I want to hear from DGB why we have no alliance. I need to get in sync with Beeboy. I also need to do the reread I promised Shiro.

You want to ally with me?

WE were supposed to be allied today. What gives?

I was unclear on the timing, I just sent Varsoon the request.

[DrippingGoofball]

Too many people on this site are intentionally nasty and ugly as their default setting.

Noooooooooooooooooooo! <3 <3 <3 stay!

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh give me a break.

Totally not AtE. It was labeled as a personal note for a reason. I should clarify: done playing. I have some interesting games in development and I enjoy modding games in the newbie queue. As a moderator, I can simply refuse to put up with the things that make me not want to play.

For example: YOU knew fuzzy was town because we had demonstrated it logically. You hammered fuzzy out of selfishness. You look down on me/us and so when confronted with it, you tried to say we lost the game but we're the ones who caught Titus's slip and got Sonic (when Mastin was trying hard to save him becuase she was SURE we were wrong). I can link you to the post where we laid out a lynch order which, if followed, guaranteed 100% win for town in Steven Universe. YOU made a selfish play that destroyed that plan and ultimately snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. When confronted with it this game, you took a shit on our approach to playing mafia.

That's okay ... because different strokes for different folks, and if you want to pretend you didn't screw that up, then cool. People delude themselves every day.

The way Yume has been treated by so many different people on this site is abhorrent and that was the point of my comment and the driver of my decision.

By the way, you might want to read what I said

ABOVE

the part labeled personal note. That was meant for people I play with a lot and for Varsoon who has made games that were for the most part quite fun to play. Since I've played with you like twice, we really don't have much "personal" about us, do we?

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

Too many people on this site are intentionally nasty and ugly as their default setting.

Noooooooooooooooooooo! <3 <3 <3 stay!

Can't tell if sarcastic or not.

~D

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Farside, Please don't end the day if you can.

I want to hear from DGB why we have no alliance. I need to get in sync with Beeboy. I also need to do the reread I promised Shiro.

You want to ally with me?

WE were supposed to be allied today. What gives?

I was unclear on the timing, I just sent Varsoon the request.

Not sure I believe this.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Too many people on this site are intentionally nasty and ugly as their default setting.

Noooooooooooooooooooo! <3 <3 <3 stay!

Can't tell if sarcastic or not.

~D

Drixx, if you have to, take a hiatus please. I don't want you to quit as a player. I think you're good.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

How are you thinking I'm not evaluating though Drixx?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Mastina, My biggest issue with Drixx is tonally he reads like really town here. I'd rather do CoolDog or Klingoncelt than RR. I'm not saying RR is town but I do have minor hesitations here.

[Reasonably Rational]

Titus, you don't count?

We're at like L-4 or something right now, which means there are 8 people on the wagon. The only one's who have deigned to speak with us aren't even considering reevaluating, to the point where we tell them about an ability we have and they assume we're lying, rather than considering if that information is possibly true and what it would mean. Nothing else is happening, so of course there's no other wagons. We had 6 votes on us within like 1.5 hours of the day starting.

-Cerb

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Titus, you don't count?

We're at like L-4 or something right now, which means there are 8 people on the wagon. The only one's who have deigned to speak with us aren't even considering reevaluating, to the point where we tell them about an ability we have and they assume we're lying, rather than considering if that information is possibly true and what it would mean. Nothing else is happening, so of course there's no other wagons. We had 6 votes on us within like 1.5 hours of the day starting.

-Cerb

I find that analysis, as someone who has been mislynched a lot, is inaccurate most of the time. There are things I want to investigate and if town checks out, they'll know I'm very pissed off. If you are town, that does suggest why Mastina was left alive.

I'm just struggling to reconcile what you've said with actions here. I still think the better objective play is to let you live and force scum to deal with you. That's more of a pragmatic approach. Until I see you engaging in your trademark elimination of possibilities, I'm going to have difficulties hard townreading you. The end of the day where you and Drixx were not congruent with your thoughts didn't help matters to me.

~Titus

[Reasonably Rational]

Too many people on this site are intentionally nasty and ugly as their default setting.

Noooooooooooooooooooo! <3 <3 <3 stay!

Can't tell if sarcastic or not.

~D

Drixx, if you have to, take a hiatus please. I don't want you to quit as a player. I think you're good.

I'm not even good enough to get people to pay attention to a fucking ridiculously scary looking scum event announcement and talk about what should be done. Go read that shit.

• The Cluster may awaken and
  DESTROY EARTH
• Players MAY forgo using climax abilities (must be activated abilities) to contribute a point towards an unknown target number (Consider: how can we force scum to forgo their actions and help defeat their own event?)
• Both players in an alliance doing so gives an extra point
• If the score isn't high enough, there will be
  several
  ¹ deaths

1: Few is generally 2-3 and Several generally means 4 or more.

I'm not even good enough to get people to set aside lynch talk to figure out how to deal with THAT. Apart from you, not one person is even willing to actually go back and look how things unfolded yesterday. Mastin is preening her ego (I predict that her top six scumspects when she declared she had four of the team figured out for sure will contain, at best, 2 scum ... maybe 3). The rest of them are stuck so far in hindsight bias and confirmation bias that they don't even care about what's going on in the game. There's literally someone who is declaring intent to unilaterally END the day after less than 24 hours, and I'm practically begging people to work on the big problem coming for the finale.

Good? Hardly.

~D

[Not Chara]

i've skimmed. is farside actually going to end the day within 24 hours? unless we're suddenly running on some sort of timer, i really don't understand why she'd choose to do this.

the lack of a real goal with these hidden points makes the Cluster event very concerning. we can't just designate some players to give up their actions, it's unknown how many are needed.
i'm going to catch up properly now.

[DrippingGoofball]

I was not sarcastic at all!

Regarding Yume, Yume lurks and drops out of almost every game. Other than that I have nothing against him.

The way Yume has been treated by so many different people on this site

[Reasonably Rational]

The end of the day where you and Drixx were not congruent with your thoughts didn't help matters to me.

~Titus

I wasn't available and you know EXACTLY why. You can look and see that I literally vanished. Never said another word in thread or in our alliance. Again I repeat: you know why. That's irrelevant though. Cerberus is ALWAYS super cautious with his vote and hammering, regardless of alignment. He ALWAYS questions until he's completely sure he understands something. You do remember that he and I figured out how scum could have won Space Dandy II on day 2, right? You remember we developed a plan that broke the game mechanics so badly, Varsoon had to retroactively change the mechanics AND make mod statements that made you look like caught lying scum.

You (and others?) are literally scum reading Cerberus for exactly what he always does. He's careful, methodical and makes sure he knows what is what.

I think the only difference is that I wasn't available so he had to ask questions in thread instead of talking to me on Slack. And I think none of you except Varsoon has actually read much of our hydra PTs from former games, so you have no fucking idea that what we do is have long discussions and work out exactly what the known info is until we're sure. Go look in the hydra PT for SU and you will see Cerb and I having conversations that look basically identical to what he did at the end of day 1 here. Look at his solo games and you'll see that out of him.

I mean ... for fuck's sake. You know how methodical we are: Varsoon nominated us and in the nomination noted that we spent a WEEK in real time being sure we had you caught in SU before we made a move.

~Drixx