Shadowrun Mafia - Game Over

[Albert B. Rampage]

I hate games with incomplete flips.

[MathBlade]

Gonna answer the Frozen Lady's question?

[JaeReed]

My reads list top to bottom:

Space Cowboy [hydra of Shiro and diamond Sentinel] -- Almost certainly town
Mcmenno -- Likely Town (because D&D is likely scum. However if D&D is town then McMenno is scum)
randomidget -- Likely town
PeregrineV -- Almost certainly town

Karnos had a trolling episode for SpaceCowboy and myself at the start of the game. viewtopic.php?p=8247350#p8247350 (Trolling Space Cowboy by saying it was real in RVS and accusing me of bussing SpaceCowboy when I simply agreed with the votes. His bullshit towards McMenno at the end made me and JaeReed both think that SpaceCowboy was likely town....I don't see any other way to interpret what Karnos was doing as anything but trying to get and Space Cowboy mislynched. Me because I knew his scum meta to a T (since I taught him) and SpaceCowboy because of an easy mislynch. The number one thing I taught Karnos about scum is to look like you passionately believe what you are saying. That's the one thing he did consistently even until the point I shot him. That and throwing WiFoM everywhere. Based on Karnos's play here I think it's almost certain that SpaceCowboy is town.

McMenno is likely town but not to the level of Space Cowboy. While it was possible it's something I put very low on my priority list because of the fact I was pretty sure Karnos was scum. Admittedly I was nervous about bias as I said with JaeReed, but that seemed very much like a scum claim. It's really the mechanics that make McMenno a likely townread here. McMenno and Karnos were likely polar opposites of each other. McMenno was a dayvig and Karnos a night vig. I don't think there's a possible way for McMenno and D&D mechanically to both be town. It's pretty much a 1 v 1 with D&D for McMenno and I would feel a lot more comfortable with both of them in prison and then not have to think about which is scum and which is town.

Random -- Based on Karnos's hammer could be town or could be scum. The more likely scenario is that Random is town. However the only way I see Random being scum is if D&D is also scum and if we have Karnos, D&D, and Random all scum in jail then maybe one or 2 more scum (I think 1) at most so this case I'm not worried about. I'd leave Random in jail at this point so I don't have to try to figure out the depths of Karnos's troll.

PeregrineV -- I think the fact he was imprisoned makes him town. I don't trust D&D's story at all as to how it happened as he doesn't seem to accurately portray House's thoughts at all. What I wouldn't give to be able to see that mission so I could figure some of this shit out. With likely at most one scum in prison and Karnos likely dead then I doubt that a scum would voluntarily imprison themselves. The only way Peregrine V is scum is if this was a gambit gone wrong by PeregrineV and D&D together in which they wanted to imprison House and instead shot him. Considering PeregrineV is allergic to gambits I'm not considering this option and I put him on levels of town equal to Space Cowboy.

In short I'd break out Space Cowboy or Peregrine V (strongly leaning the latter barring any other ideas), leave Random alone and put D&D and McMenno is a single cell far far away and lose the key to those cells.

My reads among the free are as follows

The remaining scum are likely in D&D Worldz and Sooper. With a very slim chance of ABR scum.
D&D is almost certain at this point, all that's missing is the flip. I've been scum with Sircakez and he limits posting as caught scum. The fact the Daenerys head is posting more than the Dragons head(SirCakez) backs up this theory. Furthermore followed by no one really defending D&D yet very little posting or asking him questions means the remaining scum are likely inactive OR just aren't saying anything else to create distance from the D&D lynch.
If JaeReed, FA, or KlingonCelt are scum they have done a DAMN fine job and deserve the world's biggest round of applause. These are very strong townreads.

This is basically my reads also.
Only difference is I'd lean more on breaking SC out over PV because I feel SC would be more likely to do something.
Last night I thought D&D had to be scum due to the way they pushed for a PV lynch. Then PV got jailed and it started to look like scum must be sabotaging the run. I think scum have to be on a mission to sabotage it.
Klingon isn't a strong townread of mine so I'd replace her with Sooper.

[JaeReed]

For other stuff I think just refer to the mission PT? If there are questions let me know.

[Frozen Angel]

I hate games with incomplete flips.

VOTE: Denaries and dragon

Scum gun inventor with a kind of restriction or bonus if targetting out of mafia chat makes sense because of the existance of traitor. Its moonlogic but I can't really convince myelf that the missions got sabotaged remotely and the pv push was healthy and house just died out of nowhere.

tonight we will make this game flipped and that must conclude this.

[Frozen Angel]

@math I need to reread SC wagon thingi later today , will talk about your insights after that.

How do we know that House wasn't killed because he'd received the shot? It would mean that D&D is scum, or scum can see the thread, but he had received it when he was killed, according to D&D, no?

cuase all the prizes I saw till this point was usuable only on the same night. but even if the vig was usable on other nights he could use it on that night

plus we dont have any clue there is even a vig thingi at all

he either died randomly or scum had access to that topic. if they had access to that topic they knew he is a mason masonizer thingi and he could confirm someone as town at start of next day. so either he died becuase they had access to that topic or completly randomly

[Klingoncelt]

You, ABR, Math - Town

Sooperdetective, Jaereed, Worldzmine - Lean Town

D&D - Scum

include the jailed people in your read lists please

@Everyone reads on jailed people, who are most likely town and why.

Space Cowboy - Lean Town

McMenno, PeregrineV - Scum

Randomidget - Definitely Scum (Townreads D&D, jumps off the Karnos wagon... ISO him.)

I find your reads seemingly vise versa of where I am standing atm. guide me through your pov

I'm working on a migraine right now. Remind me later tonight (Thursday) and I'll go through the list.

[Frozen Angel]

@mod vote count please

[Klingoncelt]

Klingon isn't a strong townread of mine so I'd replace her with Sooper.

I haven't been on any missions, and I'm not in either of the PTs, so my interacting with everyone else is very limited.

I don't expect most players to have much of a read on me. just saying.

[Frozen Angel]

hope your migraine get better

Klingon isn't a strong townread of mine so I'd replace her with Sooper.

I haven't been on any missions, and I'm not in either of the PTs, so my interacting with everyone else is very limited.

I don't expect most players to have much of a read on me. just saying.

yep. I definitly need more townreads now

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Regarding Karnos:YOU HAVE A ONE USE NIGHTVIG FOR THESE PTS, IF YOU RETAIN ACCESS. IF YOUR VIG FAILS TWICE FOR WHATEVER REASON, IT TURNS INTO A DAYVIG.

Having D&D scum makes sense that D&D gives me a gun as SirCakez knows my reads are terribad. Then ABR to hope he sheeps house and shoots me when I use it to take out his buddy.

It also isn't the same thing as scum having three kills as D&D couldn't control who the person he gave the gun to. I'd also expect he has some kind of "can only give this to scum on X nights" or when "Y scum dead" or some kind of weird condition. However I see may possible D&D scum possibilities and it matches that Titus would give a gunsmith to scum.

We gave you a gun because we both agreed you were town night 1.
And we gave ABR a gun for the same reason.

It wasn't some conspiracy to get you or abr to misshoot.

You, ABR, Math - Town

Sooperdetective, Jaereed, Worldzmine - Lean Town

D&D - Scum

include the jailed people in your read lists please

@Everyone reads on jailed people, who are most likely town and why.

Space Cowboy - Lean Town

McMenno, PeregrineV - Scum

Randomidget - Definitely Scum (Townreads D&D, jumps off the Karnos wagon... ISO him.)

These reads from Klingon are why she is scum.
Random is very, very obviously town at this point.
And her reads of the living people are town reads on everyonne except us, which looks like scum coasting off the frame.job that's been done on us.

I'll be honest, neither of us really want to play this game anymore. We're both frustrated as fuck with the players and how we're being framed because scum likely either has a PT spy or just picked House to NK because he's House.
So yeah I get why everyone is scumreading us so we've basically accepted we're being lynched. Just let us hash out reads b4 we go to jail.

-dragons

[Frozen Angel]

@D&D so you think its Worldz + KC + PV and karnos scum team ?

I was Isoing you and reading your PV case and all I see is lurking. what about his play in this game was any different from his other games that makes him "confscum" and I want you to point me to another game supporting your line of thoughts.

[Frozen Angel]

You had a townread on PV during day 1 (telling from ISO)

You started questioning PV after Sooper declaered he is taking them to an adventure. You started voting and actually "scumreading him" publickly after ABR pushing him.

I want to know what is driving your thought process here.

[JaeReed]

FA do you have no questions for me? I feel like I haven't been adequately contributing.

@Klingon my read on you is separate from missions/PTs. Why are you focusing only on those as being a reason to townread someone?

[Frozen Angel]

I have a theory :

removing prison break rune from the game instead of doing it will make all the prisoners flip

There might be some other limited prsion breaker abilities which I'm sure has no massive effect so the players who can't run away from the jail anymore will all flip.

this way we will get info to work with during day phase (but it might screw us all if there is other mechanics for a massive jailbreak)

Opinions , reasonings and whatever ...

[Frozen Angel]

I am assuming that can remove an adventure anytime even during a day phase. correct?

[Frozen Angel]

Just to make 3 times more sure

@mod if there is no way for a player to exit the jail (even if the two prison break limit is not yet achieved) they will flip. correct ?

[MathBlade]

The main thing I want to hear from D&D is why scum would volunteer (as your post indicated) if they were scum. That seems really contradictory.

I want to hear why you think SC is town again in more depth than the adventure PT Jae. Not just quoting my post.

@FA Kling is town. Would bet the game on it.

Kling - Same question why would Peregrine V volunteer to get himself imprisoned if scum ? Unless you do not believe D&D's story?

Pedit

FA removing prison break is a horrible idea right now.
We need to get town in there out.
The person who could remove prison break is likely scum. So if it is removed it pretty much confirms the idea there is a lot of town in it.
Info over analysis is bad.

[Frozen Angel]

The person who could remove prison break is likely scum. So if it is removed it pretty much confirms the idea there is a lot of town in it.

there is a lot of town in it anyway. but going in there has the risk of bringing back scum to game which might just count us the game.

I do beleive we started game with 4 scum (3 + 1 traitor) but I might be wrong.

by the looks of things there is scum in jail but again I might be wrong. (but that will give us a good view about the composition of the living players.

[Frozen Angel]

I mean if D&D is scum they can just use it before the lynch anyway if thats beneficial for them. so there is that ...

I don't know I was just thinking about why that mission prize might be useful at all and this is the only reason I can think why its putten in this setup.

[Albert B. Rampage]

@FA Kling is town. Would bet the game on it.

why?

[MathBlade]

They could but they probably won't because of if they use it two things:

1) This confirms or denies the existence of scum in there if people flip from it.
2) It eliminates the possibility of getting scum out.

Do not throw the baby out with the bath water.

Running out the door to work.

[MathBlade]

@FA Kling is town. Would bet the game on it.

why?

Reasons she had said in this thread. I have a hunch about something that I think Kling knows and that she knows that I know what she knows. And the fact she knows and isn't doing <redacted> makes her town.

You on the other hand could answer things yourself. *glares*
Or are you scum with D&D and don't have any reads so you just ask random questions to try to look invested?

[Albert B. Rampage]

think what you want

[Frozen Angel]

They could but they probably won't because of if they use it two things:

1) This confirms or denies the existence of scum in there if people flip from it.
2) It eliminates the possibility of getting scum out.

Do not throw the baby out with the bath water.

Running out the door to work.

and I suggested that becuase of those exact two reasons lol

plus

3) we get the flipps and we can use them to figure out the game

Its just something passed my mind

any other opinions anyone?