STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[Reasonably Rational]

That's pretty convincing Titus. In fact, that's probably the most relatable case I've ever seen you make against someone. Please do THAT more often. And please just don't get baited into fights. Let's be accountability buddies on that front because we both rise to the bait (remember our Learned Hand experience?).

@Farside - Can you argue anything that Titus said? It's all very simple there with very little snark or side commentary. This should be something you can easily agree on, and I'm struggling to figure out what the problem is.

~Drixx

[mastin2]

Wtf? You "empathize" with why he voted after 5477? You "get it"? You "really do"?

Yes.
I understand

exactly

why he voted you. I understand why he saw it as scummy. I understand why he thinks you're scum. I understand that, and I can't say I really disagree. The best I can give you is that I might not agree. Because you've lost your towncred. You had it early-on. And then you coasted.
A lot.

A lot, a lot.

So you're sitting on the south side of null.

Want towncred back?

Then do something town.
This aint it.

But the main point I was making there is...I don't support lynching you today.
If you don't town it up, I will support lynching you tomorrow.
Yet today, I am commanding a Mathblade lynch take place.

[farside22]

That's pretty convincing Titus. In fact, that's probably the most relatable case I've ever seen you make against someone. Please do THAT more often. And please just don't get baited into fights. Let's be accountability buddies on that front because we both rise to the bait (remember our Learned Hand experience?).

@Farside - Can you argue anything that Titus said? It's all very simple there with very little snark or side commentary. This should be something you can easily agree on, and I'm struggling to figure out what the problem is.

~Drixx

You must be joking.
Half her past was pure hypocrisy.
Shit I haven't posted in this game for hours and she is still calling me a spammer.
Everything she said I've done, she's done.

If you can't see that, I can't help you.

You should ally with me.
I'm going to make you really read this game.

[mastin2]

Right?

Off-topic a bit, but you of all people know that I don't actually have an ego.
Like, at all.
Not even a bit of one.
There's a reason (a damn good reason at that!) that I appear to have more of an ego this game than compared to a normal mastina game. (That being, essentially, I'm not quite playing like the normal mastina. My style feels "better" than normal mastina right now. That's a MASSIVE oversimplification, but adequate enough an explanation for now.) But not only is that something which is not permanent, it's also still (even now) not a true ego. I'd call it more, "strategic confidence". This delves into MD theory, but generally across all games, I am not of the mindset that showing my actual confidence level is the tactically-correct move in getting people to follow me in games. ESPECIALLY not when I have a permanent private topic where I can share my actual thoughts as needed.

[Killthestory]

believable

[mastin2]

If math is scum, why am I not voted by more people (namely scum buddies) in order to save her.

Easy enough.
There's an attempt at a Shiro wagon.
There's an attempt at a DGB wagon.
Support for one draws from support from the other, NOT from Mathblade.

In short: dueling town counterwagons to the wagon on scum. The scum can't get enough votes on only ONE of the wagons.

[farside22]

Here I'll do the first step because this is not an argument I want day 3.

Vote: math

In before titus/mastin/Shiro call me scum for voting math.

[mastin2]

DrippingGoofball (4): Klingoncelt, Not Chara, Firebringer, SnarkySnowman

The only person in here that I see as potentially scum is Klingoncelt.

Odd, the only person I see in there above suspicion is Firebringer.

[Titus]

@Drixx, I do think avoiding being baited in the future is good. I will think on how to do that. Being baitable is probably a side effect of who I am as town. It annoys me much more when people go after my townreads than myself but I am equally annoyed by lies. If you see something that tends to bait me, let me know.

I can tell you that one of yours is anytime someone suspects you of lying, you take it as a personal affront rather than part of the game.

Now, your turn on me whenever you want. Please don't align with Farside, do not reward her behavior.

[Titus]

Here I'll do the first step because this is not an argument I want day 3.

Vote: math

In before titus/mastin/Shiro call me scum for voting math.

Thank you.

[mastin2]

Guys math isn't scum
Their posts don't look like self preservation, if that's what they were trying to do they wouldn't have made the pushes they made

Mathblade's been alternating votes, continuously, between Shiro and DGB, the two largest counterwagons to them.

That isn't an effort at self-preservation...

...

How

?

[farside22]

Nope rr you get to align with me.
I'm going to give you info in the PT and there will be no spam to manipulate those words.

[Reasonably Rational]

Guys math isn't scum
Their posts don't look like self preservation, if that's what they were trying to do they wouldn't have made the pushes they made

Mathblade's been alternating votes, continuously, between Shiro and DGB, the two largest counterwagons to them.

That isn't an effort at self-preservation...

...

How

?

QFT.

Farside, I have no idea what to do here with the allying thing.

:/

-Cerb

[Titus]

@Drixx, Farside wants you to break your word to random just to try and convince you of something you should know I can beat without even seeing your PT. Do not waste her time or yours.

[mastin2]

I can be a super artist in a way, but it may fail. Do you want me to take the chance or hold? We should not both be drawing as it is superfluous. I will respect what choice you make.

I'd say both hold to be honest.

[farside22]

Guys math isn't scum
Their posts don't look like self preservation, if that's what they were trying to do they wouldn't have made the pushes they made

Mathblade's been alternating votes, continuously, between Shiro and DGB, the two largest counterwagons to them.

That isn't an effort at self-preservation...

...

How

?

QFT.

Farside, I have no idea what to do here with the allying thing.

:/

-Cerb

Not doing what Titus claims at all.
Here is the thing, you know I'm interested, you have a garenteed player to chat with and you know I'll chat back.
I'm not scum despite what Titus says.
I'm not telling anyone that there not entitled to their opinion.
I don't call everyone scum that calls Shiro town.
A50, Fire just to name a few.

[Titus]

I can be a super artist in a way, but it may fail. Do you want me to take the chance or hold? We should not both be drawing as it is superfluous. I will respect what choice you make.

I'd say both hold to be honest.

Ok, but the longer Farside spews bullshit, the more my artist finger gets itchy, but I will hold.

[mastin2]

There is almost certainly a separate Crystal Gems faction and they are almost certainly third party.

Yeah, I don't buy this.

The second is only necessary if there is either some way that we could remove all scum and also somehow all be dead.

There is. Bubbling counts as being removed from the game, remember? (V declared this publicly a while back.)
I repeat: that is a town-controlled power. If the last town member used it on scum while scum killed them, then the result would be nobody being technically "alive", and therefore, we'd have failed to achieve our wincon.

I know more about the bubbling power than most players in the game could ever know about it.

Second, there's Klingoncelt.

I'm a miller because I'm a corrupted gem, not because I'm a crystal gem.
Klingoncelt is indeed a crystal gem. I even know which one, which is either her real role or her flavor-given fakeclaim.

Last I checked, Yume didn't share with me your other private reasons. So if you want me to have so much as a chance of buying this: that needs to be done.
If I'm wrong and Yume did, then what was posted must have been so underwhelming that I didn't even think it was a point. Suffice to say:

Yeah, not buying it.

[mastin2]

What makes the most sense is that Klingoncelt is just scum, claiming miller.

If Klingoncelt is scum, she has miller as either a built-in ability of her actual role, or a built-in piece of her fakeclaim. Speaking as a miller myself, I can tell you that much. She knows details about the miller role that I doubt V would hand out to scum willy-nilly requesting a miller fakeclaim that he didn't give. (That being said, her miller flavor doesn't make nearly as much sense as mine does, but I digress.)

Is it possible she's scum, yes, most certainly it is.
But I'm not going to pressure her right now. She has a free pass for the time being.

[Reasonably Rational]

That's okay Mastin. As I told Yume when Titus didn't believe us: the best we can do is tell you what we figured out so people aren't doing dumb things out of ignorance.

We don't need you to buy it. We just need you to be informed at this time.

And stop bickering over stupid shit that is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the setup.

Fyi though, there is basically no chance that we're wrong. If we're wrong, I will NEVER delve into the realm of setup speculation again. *shrug*

And yes, I already knew those things about KC and yourself. I'm even quite sure I know which corrupted gem you are!

Anyways, I'm looking forward to being proven right!

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, and your bubbling argument: it's not an argument. Not at all.

It's FAR more likely that there is another faction, than Varsoon decided to bake in what would happen in the rare event that the game came down to a 1v1 between a town and a scum vig.

There's no practical difference as far as win condition success is concerned between bubbling and vigging, from what we've seen.

-Cerb

[mastin2]

Narrative Evidence for Mathblade slot as scum
1) The only vote Cooldog places is for McMenno, as a counterwagon to RR and NC. He never gives an opinion on RR or NC.
2) CoolDog says NC will be clear after Mastina flips, but has zero issue with Mastina voting NC.
3) Discredits my Cakey read but doesn't call me scummy or elaborate.
4) He calls Not Chara a lurker in his defense of them.
5) His interactions regarding KTS's innocent child are just awkward.
6) Cooldog had prod dodges delaying content promised repeatedly.
7) His ISO has virtually no interaction with Cakey.
8) He's never pushed as a lurker when the push was to lynch a lurker.
9) Loopdan has the same broken promises.
10) Mathblade has only taken stances that are ridiculous, designed not to give information after they flip.
11) They're making manipulative personal appeals to me, while at the same time discrediting me.
12) The CoolDog didn't claim ascetic early on but Math did.
13) Lars doesn't make sense as an ability cloner (he's a human bully who doesn't really do anything). [Caveat: I'm still in Season 1]
14) When pressured for plausible reads, they give none.
15) Math has jumped to every single counterwagon that existed to her slot, and claimed to scumread them all.
16) The constant doubtcasting of Mastina is terrible.
17) The stretch to try and argue I townread them.
18) Math views Shiro's ISO the exact opposite of Farside, but neither question each other.
19) Math buddying TFL.

Okay, so I unspoiled this so everyone can see this in its entirety. This. So much this. Every point here, literally every point here, is valid and perfectly summarizes my feelings on Mathblade.

[Creature]

Hopefully Math isn't just a policy.

[Titus]

That's okay Mastin. As I told Yume when Titus didn't believe us: the best we can do is tell you what we figured out so people aren't doing dumb things out of ignorance.

We don't need you to buy it. We just need you to be informed at this time.

And stop bickering over stupid shit that is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the setup.

Fyi though, there is basically no chance that we're wrong. If we're wrong, I will NEVER delve into the realm of setup speculation again. *shrug*

And yes, I already knew those things about KC and yourself. I'm even quite sure I know which corrupted gem you are!

Anyways, I'm looking forward to being proven right!

-Cerb

Don't stop setup speccing permanently if wrong. I love having a non scum motivated setup spec partner. I am not doing anything tonight, so no worries there.

For what it's worth, I think you're doing the right thing for what you believe. I think you're missing a fundamental fact Or facts that I deduced through what happened to me and partial flavor knowledge.

#supportanddisagree

[mastin2]

Mathblade and Farside are treating me exactly like SirCakez who flipped scum and the wagon developed similarly to SirCakez.

While I recognize it as slightly different, there

are

some rather striking similarities.

VERY striking similarities.

Mathblade's wagon has a near-perfect mirror to the SirCakez wagon development. Mathblade is treating Titus similarly.
farside among others is treating Mathblade similarly to how SirCakez was treated, though this is where I diverge from Titus in that I think this happens to not be alignment-indicative.

Otherwise, though, I still think it's a valid point.

Mathblade will not flip town.