Shadowrun Mafia - Game Over

[Klingoncelt]

This is awkward...

I received explaination from the mod.
A certain action performed on a certain target has several parts, and apparently seeing received/sent messages is one of them. It's not a standard role so I didn't even notice.

That also means I know kling's role, and kling should be able to confirm me as well.
@Kling: do you agree with the fact there were 3 people doing something on the target, including you?

@FA: I sent my message to jae, someone both you and i trusted.

@abr don't get your hopes up. You thought pv would flip scum and i'm pretty sure they wont. You hope we flip scum but i ensure you that you are wrong AGAIN. I'm pretty fucking tired of your random pushes on everyone, not just on me.

-S

I agree, there were 3 people doing something on the target, including me.

Why did the Mod give you my role?

[SooperDetective]

@FA - I totally get that I don't know a lot about mechanics and the implications of different mechanics and what things are happening. I guess it's because of that that some of your posts seem a bit aimless (because your aim isn't clear to me.) Can you explain these a bit more? What responses are/were you expecting? How would certain answers be AI and others not?

In order for McMenno and SC to both be scum, I think scum would need a way to break out of jail and also probably to break multiple people out of jail. I don't think they have this. We've seen Jae's ability and the run which it seems can break people out. I think in order for scum to escape jail, they'd have to be broken out by town. So I don't think they're both scum. karnos had a vig kill and D&D controls this gun. I think that D&D's play has been scummier than MC's and I think it'd be too many kills in the hands of scum for them both to be scum, so I think MC is town. That doesn't indicate anything about SC. I need to have a read through that early parts of the game to make a decision about them.

I believe there is in fact a lot of power with the leader, because everyone naturally wants to get on their good side in order to be on the mission. So they have a lot of sway over the gamestate. One of the reasons that PV wasn't being wagoned properly was because you told ABR and us that if we kept scumreading your townread that you wouldn't take us on the mission.

-Daenerys

I, at least, was super frustrated yesterday because Worldz wasn't the lynch. Do you think we had more influence over the lynch, or ABR? Why would your vote be influenced by whether or not you would be taken on a mission? Do you think it's more important to be on the mission than to vote for who you think is scum?

Can you quote a few posts which back up this description of play yesterday? It doesn't match what I remember happening/thinking. I also think your read on PV and us is weak. The reasons you gave in 2170 for scumreading PV are weak and using the fact that we didn't want to lynch PV, when we've explained amply why, as a reason for us to be scum is weak. You went on a mission with PV - was there anything during that time that influenced your read? You've said the thing about running the mission was NAI, for example.

I wasn't really around during the mission or discussion of what would go on last night, I'm having a re-read more carefully now then I'll have a more informed stance on what's going on with the Jae/Math role outing. Nothing pinged me from the PT when I first read it and Math's response seems reasonable.

-Froot

[Klingoncelt]

Okay if its abr and he claimed

Abr is NOT a strongmanizer. He is a NAR promoter, WHICH I ALREADY CLAIMED TO YOU A WHILE AGO
He can put an action outside of NAR, by my knowledge thats not just a strongmanizer.

I targeted worldz, my mind was derping. It was public knowledge that a bounty was placed on him by karnos D2.

KC does know the killer if she was on drixx, so you are right, she should have said something about it.

-S

I was on ABR.

[Klingoncelt]

so she saw my message night 1 as well according to your claim.

unless she was on ABR not Drixx.

ok , I need to stop for tonight. will reread some stuff and organize my thought process about this.

She sees all sent and received so if you sent to her target yes she did

No I don't.

I just get copies of the ones sent.

[MathBlade]

Just got home I be a reading.

[Frozen Angel]

Just got home

will tell you the summery I promised in less than an hour

[Frozen Angel]

I am going to drop this mystery Bullshit once and for all

according to the summary jaread told us during last night mission which is partially confirmed by mathblade comments so far , math blade claimed she has a power role with indicating highly that she has an ability from a certain group of PR's.

The fact Grovile died from that mission that night indicates eaither math is scum herself or jae is town cuase scum didn't kill math over grovile. this is not a strong lead though.

Math fullclaimed to jae in his message told him she didn't full claim in the pt becuase she has doubts about Drixx and what is she going to do that night and why is she was going to do that.

Jae told us the exact message he recieved from math during last night adventure + a full summary about their night 1 adventure as I said but it was all after exposing mathblade role which I will tell you why if you continue reading this. (and the message he recieved from grovyle as well)

last night we received a prize which would let us disable a category of abilities (like killing, blocking ,protective , etc ...) for the night or to remove someones access from any day chats they have [Moonlogic : this implies scum has a day chat which is why I'm sure MC's second slip was a planed tactic to frame SC but the fact he shot them right after they claimed they can prove their town is weird.]

We obviously used the first prize to stop redirection or block. Our deal was that Sooper use one of them without telling that in adventure pt (we were suspecting there might be an in adventure vig or something which killed PV right after a discussion happened about PV - sooper was weirdly against this idea though like the way he was agaisnt all of my theories like he knows their fualts or wrong aspects already)

anyway we told sooper he must send a message to someone not me and in my tier one or two of townreads about which he disabled : redirection or block (sooper claimed he message jaread and the thing which was disabled was redirection)

This was when Jaread claimed math role to say who she will target very likely and disabling what might stop her. (and after that he gave us full read lists and night 1 details)

All this aside Sooper claimed they are a voyuer and they are targetting mathblade at night. his coded reponse about his night action in here :

@FA 196 didnt happen in what i looked at
The action performed by that person was put outside of 117 and therefore wasnt affected by anything there
There was also someone who saw me do what i did and what said person did after the mission

means:

Noone messed with mathblade actions
The action performed by math was not disabled (was put outside of 117 means was put outseide of NAR system which I din't understand in first time reading)
Someone watched jae and jae knows what that person did.

so this is not a voyuer its a semi watching role cop - but the results match with all claims Now that he changed his claim about watching any ability related to messages

I asked him if he saw anything related to KC message stealing or not and he said No before

My thought process back then : "If he disabled redirection by his own claim (which was behind nar so it would disable redirection for all of the night) he should see some action messing with math message

why?

cuase the same ability targeted You night 1 and couldn't be be targetting drixx. The action must be on sender or reciever and according to KC claim she didn't receive my slot message to drixx night 1. So the told action must be on the sender.

this is where the claims won't add up! Sooper is lieing or KC has some not-targetable message spy ability and/or is lieing about not seeing other messages (at least my slot message night 1)"

Now he chamged his claim : he said it was one complicated action - included in the watch he claimed earlier which would let KC read all sent / recieved messages.

Now the current claims adds up.
actional wise ABR strongmanizing Math is townish. KC watching Math is townish - but she had other utilities that could help scum!her understand town power roles + Math was a good person for spying messages (as ABR was - becuase of his leader ship charisma)

so I do still beleive there is a scum in this two investigative claims - I am sorry that your roles are now outed but that was the reason I was trying to keep my voice down and do these calculations hidden

thoughts , ideas , reads and opinions about the above are welcome

[Frozen Angel]

@FA - I totally get that I don't know a lot about mechanics and the implications of different mechanics and what things are happening. I guess it's because of that that some of your posts seem a bit aimless (because your aim isn't clear to me.) Can you explain these a bit more? What responses are/were you expecting? How would certain answers be AI and others not?

Your slot first claim had an absoloute contradiction with something else I knew. Sooper fixed that last night with a change.

You lieing about your results or KC lieing about recieveing other messages meant there is a scum in you and KC at that time. Now it just highly indicates becuase of the fact I do beleive in this role madness town main faction need a spy utility. Both you and KC roles match in this category.

[Frozen Angel]

Also, there might have been a Mod error.

I will shoot you down just for this sentense.

and I'm sirious KC.

you are claiming you are not informed about what was the thing I was talking about and you are suggesting there was a mod error any way?

[MathBlade]

I am waiting for the reason that my pants were dropped still.

[MathBlade]

How can I be a good person for spying messages when I don't spy messages?

Like what?

My theory of why Grovyle was killed is missing from your post.

JaeReed hand shook with me at the beginning of d2 even though with Grovyle's flip Twas obvious.

[MathBlade]

I also did not say who I would likely target d2 (if I can) in a message on D1 that is dumb.
I also asked in that message to NOT be directly townfirmed.

Yet what does JaeReed do?
Fucking depants me.

And why would it matter who I target (if I can) when the entire point was to make sure I shot ABR? That is the whole reason I was left off is because I wasn't trusted.

About KC and Sooper I am rereading their ISOs but I am still waiting on the reason I was depantsed.

[Frozen Angel]

You were outed by jaread to tell us who your going to likely visit (remember that I was there) and disabling what kind of actions will disable you.

I'm not saying they were good reasons but he came out towny in my eyes when doing it.

You were about to shoot an outed scum , so you were a good place for town huanting or scum huanting so spying you makes sense for KC as either alignment.

all I said there was that I think the fact grove died over you indicates jaread is town cuase he knew you are a PR you know what you are.

[Frozen Angel]

I also did not say who I would likely target d2 (if I can) in a message on D1 that is dumb.

yeah thats the same version he told us about your message.

he just guessed your action for you know why

[Frozen Angel]

And why would it matter who I target (if I can) when the entire point was to make sure I shot ABR? That is the whole reason I was left off is because I wasn't trusted.

to make sure you shot Karnoos you mean?

and yes we wanted to disable the action which could have stopping you. (redirect or blocks)

mod confirmed that if someone gets a gift vig shot they can still shoot with it and do their own action unless its spescified in their role pm that they can only use one action. mod answered it for factional kill and vig shot (someone may use a vig shot and do a factional kill in the same night naturally - there is no one action per night restriction) so your other action mattered as well.

[Frozen Angel]

and I tell you everything about the night if its not outing us or someone else - whitout any reasons - just remember the fact you got outed by jaread is on jaread. I was waiting for him to hint you we know about your role cuase this is kindda dumb to out someone else and don't tell them they are outed , when I saw its not happeneing I claimed it.

I don't see him being scummy for doing it and yes I know your angry but whatever ... I still dont see him scum for doing it.

jaread is likely town for the fact grovile died over you 0 unless they crumbed something as well which I missed

[MathBlade]

And why would it matter who I target (if I can) when the entire point was to make sure I shot ABR? That is the whole reason I was left off is because I wasn't trusted.

to make sure you shot Karnoos you mean?

and yes we wanted to disable the action which could have stopping you. (redirect or blocks)

mod confirmed that if someone gets a gift vig shot they can still shoot with it and do their own action unless its spescified in their role pm that they can only use one action. mod answered it for factional kill and vig shot (someone may use a vig shot and do a factional kill in the same night naturally - there is no one action per night restriction) so your other action mattered as well.

That is what I meant yes. Sorry super early here.

[MathBlade]

guys, we must put jaereed in a jail cell, in order to protect the shadowrunners!
Also if we have someone who can execute the treestumps, like a jailor who can also release or something.
They should instant execute jaereed.

I thought Grovyle was killed because of this post and JaeReed in the hood confirmed he can break out of jail implying a hood or masonry between the two.

Grovyle was also a universal townread and a Mage.

This is why I think Grovyle was killed.

[Frozen Angel]

about KC

but then she that she knew about ABR message day 2. which is highly unlikly from a scum KC.

I want to restrict my FOS pool to {D&D , Sooper and worldz} slots.

pedit : hmmm yeah , but anyway the fact you weren't killed after claiming in a hood implies scum has no access in that hood or your scum.

but then as I said its not a strong reasoning - just an initial thinking process which gave me a slight townread on jae + the fact he was really progressive in the hood last night

I dont know

[MathBlade]

Secondly this is clearly role madness here.
I doubt anyone is a VT. All I said in the mission thread was that I was a PR. I did not say what. This makes me no more the NK than if I said my name was MathBlade.

[Frozen Angel]

You said "I am a PR which ...." according to jae

Maybe I shouldnt assume everyone is smart enough to figure this out but that is pointing at only two nar categories directly.

[Frozen Angel]

and again I am assuming scums will do optimal kills which is false in its core.

so yeah that reasoning is flawed and weak. its just giving a feeling to me that jae is trustable which might be wrong. *shrugs*

[MathBlade]

That is true. I did say that.

I could be an investigative who has to hit a certain kind of player to be useful.
I could be a gift giver who wants to hit town only.
I could be a blocking power who has to go through a lot of WiFoM.
Same with redirecting and protective.
I could have had House's power (which I don't).

I could be a vengeful.

The fact is those were the possibilities off the top of my head. I could be all those things from an uniformed person's view which match that phrase. Hell I strongly suspect another PR of being in the same boat as me. You are starting from IMHO flawed theories.

[Frozen Angel]

nope

only two role- types will trully say that

just stop this discussion k? your hinting at yourself and I'm helping you >.>

[MathBlade]

They could be right but it would be happenstance.

What I find likely is one of scum is in Sooper and KC. That much I agree on.