Newbie 1742 Earth - Game Over

[Shadowlancerx]

Newbie 1739 just ended, so I want everyone to go look at it. That's a game where Penguin is scum. I don't think he's scum here.

Reading now. For anyone else interested start at vote count 1.9, penguin replaces in shortly after that.

[Shadowlancerx]

Make that 1.10, sorry.

[Accountant]

Maxx got quickhammered in that game, and PP yelled at everyome for it. Because as scum he likes to be able to take the "moral high ground" and get towncred for yelling at people who rush lynches. That's not the type of mindset that leads you to quickhammer gambit.

[Accountant]

When someone derphammers town, scum's first instinct is to kick back and let town rip itself apart. Especially with the wagon on Icy. The only place I could be wrong is BlackVoid, but we have one mislynch so if we just lynch Huntress and Scarlet we're confirmed a win.

The lurking has been really bothering me, but walk me through why huntress and scarlet wouldn't have added their votes to Icy when they could have? I'm guessing that a lynch on someone who turns town (if Icy is actually town, I don't have a clear read either way anymore) is better when the Mafia don't have to actually throw their votes on it, but would they risk that? I guess I'm just not completely clear here.
UNVOTE: until I've got a clearer picture of what's going on.

Huntress did add her vote to Icy. I don't know about Scarlet, but scum usually doesn't like to double hop onto a wagon at the same time because it looks shady.

Remember, the scum team wants me to drive the lynch onto Icy. They know Icy will flip town and doesn't want to be caught leading the wagon on her when she does. They would rather I drive the wagon while sitting back and hiding in the shadows themselves.

[Accountant]

Also I just realized I've been ignoring the possibility of PP being scum who genuinely accidentally hammered... but Huntress-PP interactions(including the immediate jump Day 2 and PP moving from Icy to Huntress) make that unlikely. Outside chance of scarlet-PP, maybe.

[Shadowlancerx]

Maxx got quickhammered in that game, and PP yelled at everyome for it. Because as scum he likes to be able to take the "moral high ground" and get towncred for yelling at people who rush lynches. That's not the type of mindset that leads you to quickhammer gambit.

Just finished (I read pp and comments directly involved with him). I'm pretty certain he's town this game. It would take some serious play style shifts for him not to be.

Accountant: okay, I follow you now.

[Shadowlancerx]

Also I just realized I've been ignoring the possibility of PP being scum who genuinely accidentally hammered... but Huntress-PP interactions(including the immediate jump Day 2 and PP moving from Icy to Huntress) make that unlikely. Outside chance of scarlet-PP, maybe.

Oh man, scum accidentally hammering would be gross, just because it gives them a virtually free mislynch.
That said, I stand my my read of Penguin as likely town.

[Accountant]

Great to hear you're on board Shadow! Let's wagon Huntress. She'll almost certainly flip scum. She's not scum with PP and probably not scum with void, so no need to worry about stuff like a PP-Scarlet team today. Just lynch Huntress

[Shadowlancerx]

VOTE: Huntress
This is an L-1!!!

L-1

Please one one derphammer before we as a town are ready. I'd really like to hear from Huntress has to say. See if we can glean anything from it.

[Accountant]

Probably scum lies or trolling. I'm okay with a derphammer.

[Shadowlancerx]

No one*
Gosh darn I really hate mobile autocorrect.

[PenguinPower]

I'm getting a really bad feeling that Accountant may be scum leading the town.

[Accountant]

I'm getting a really bad feeling that Accountant may be scum leading the town.

TRUST

YOU GOTTA HAVE TRUST

(also, why would I bother switching off Icy if I was scum)

[BlackVoid]

Penguin and Accountant were my top two. Penguin 1, Accountant 1a. At that point Huntress had voted Penguin, and Accountant voted Huntress. There was already some pressure on Penguin and Accountants reason for vote (valid or not) bothered me. Rather than put more pressure on Penguin and let Accountant slide. I decided to apply some pressure to Accountant by voting him.

Had Accountant not voted Huntress I would have voted Penguin.

This makes a lot of sense actually. Typical town play is to add pressure to suspects by adding a lot of votes to the same person but you seem to genuinely believe that spreading votes on all suspects is good play.

I just don't have enough experience to [make decisions on my own]. If that makes you think I'm scum, go ahead.

As for Penguin's alignment, I think it's he's town. If we're to assume that PP is scum, and hammers Blix on purpose, the chance of him knowing that Accountant will get to his defense, citing him as a conservative defense would be low. As such, the gambit he tried to pull on D1 is risky, it's better to not pull it at all.

Why are you discounting that Penguin could be scum that hammered accidentally?

Regarding you experience, can you give me a bit of background on whether you played mafia before (on other forums or face to face)? How did you come to find this site and start playing?

[BlackVoid]

I agree with the consensus on shadowlancer. I can't see that L-1 vote on himself coming from scum. Accountant is a stronger townread for me based on the latest posting. If he was scum and Icy town, that would have been an easy push and he had plenty of players to scapegoat after a mislynch. If he and Icy are partners, then lol, props for the best distancing I've seen. Either way, unlikely he's scum.

That leaves four players from my POV: Icy, Huntress, Scarlet, Penguin. Hard to see Icy as scum given almost everyone in this pile is pushing him. The way Penguin and Scarlet are pushing from the sidelines makes me think it's unlikely that they are bussing. Minor possibility that he's partnered with Huntress but probably unlikely given how she's pushing him.

Penguin/Huntress is highly unlikely. Huntress was quick to abandon the push on Penguin and move towards Icy after Accountant put him in the spotlight. I suppose Huntress could have made a play at distancing because she knew Penguin would attract pressure but if she did, I'd have expected her to continue along that path and let Accountant lynch Icy rather than switch over and blow the towncred she could have gotten from a Penguin push.

Scarlet/Penguin actually fits pretty well. Scarlet sheeps Accountant's reasoning that Penguin did in fact make a mistake but avoids taking a hard stance on Penguin until I press him on it. On Penguin's end, I think he was very quick to vote Huntress right after Accountant unvotes Icy even though he was pushing Icy for most of D2. Accountant listed out two people (scarlet and huntress) in 167 and immediately Penguin puts down a vote on Huntress in the next post. It seems too much of a co-incidence and looks like he's encouraging Accountant to push the scumread that's not his partner.

Huntress/Scarlet have not had any interactions with each other so hard to rule this out. In this case, Huntress would have started out D2 by making the obvious push on Penguin, then switching over to the Icy wagon led by Accountant. When that became more convenient, she forgets the initial Penguin push. I guess this is possible.

Individually, I'm still not buying that Penguin can't be scum that just accidentally hammered while on a phone. I don't trust him and I think he's playing up the "why would I do this as scum" card a bit too much. My scumteam call would actually be Scarlet and Penguin with an outside chance of Scarlet and Huntress. I want to vote Scarlet but I'll wait to hear back from him about his experience level as that could be coloring my read.

[PenguinPower]

On Penguin's end, I think he was very quick to vote Huntress right after Accountant unvotes Icy even though he was pushing Icy for most of D2. Accountant listed out two people (scarlet and huntress) in 167 and immediately Penguin puts down a vote on Huntress in the next post. It seems too much of a co-incidence and looks like he's encouraging Accountant to push the scumread that's not his partner.

Where was I pushing Icy for most of D2? I never put my vote down on Icy. Also, I can't help that I responded to Icy's post at the exact same time as Account made his post. I didn't see it until p-edit, but there was nothing for me to comment on at that point.

[PenguinPower]

Individually, I'm still not buying that Penguin can't be scum that just accidentally hammered while on a phone.

Agreed. My derphammer should be NAI.

[PenguinPower]

I'm getting a really bad feeling that Accountant may be scum leading the town.

TRUST

YOU GOTTA HAVE TRUST

(also, why would I bother switching off Icy if I was scum)

I got burned by my first IC. Sorry if I'm a bit untrusting.

[BlackVoid]

Where was I pushing Icy for most of D2? I never put my vote down on Icy. Also, I can't help that I responded to Icy's post at the exact same time as Account made his post. I didn't see it until p-edit, but there was nothing for me to comment on at that point.

You might not have put your vote down but correct me if I'm wrong, the tone you use when questioning him looked like you suspected him. For example in 81, 89, 117, 124 (where you call his case weak), 136, 148, and 163. Are you saying you never suspected Icy?

[PenguinPower]

I suspect everyone, that's why I'm asking questions. Did I strongly suspect he was scum? Well...did I put my vote down?

[Accountant]

I don't buy PP scum right now. Paranoia feels genuine as well. Void, I'm up for lynching Scarlet; I don't care what order scum is lynched in.

[hinanawiscarlet]

I just don't have enough experience to [make decisions on my own]. If that makes you think I'm scum, go ahead.

As for Penguin's alignment, I think it's he's town. If we're to assume that PP is scum, and hammers Blix on purpose, the chance of him knowing that Accountant will get to his defense, citing him as a conservative defense would be low. As such, the gambit he tried to pull on D1 is risky, it's better to not pull it at all.

Why are you discounting that Penguin could be scum that hammered accidentally?

Regarding you experience, can you give me a bit of background on whether you played mafia before (on other forums or face to face)? How did you come to find this site and start playing?[/quote]


Is the chance of him being an accidentally hammering scum high? One thing I learn from probability class is that it's almost always not worth it to pursue something with low chance

As for experience, I've played a bit, face to face with my colleagues. Suffice to say that my friends and me aren't particularly skilled and votes mostly based on gut.
I did a quick search on Google with the terms "mafia forum" and this forum shows on top.

[hinanawiscarlet]

When someone derphammers town, scum's first instinct is to kick back and let town rip itself apart. Especially with the wagon on Icy. The only place I could be wrong is BlackVoid, but we have one mislynch so if we just lynch Huntress and Scarlet we're confirmed a win.

The lurking has been really bothering me, but walk me through why huntress and scarlet wouldn't have added their votes to Icy when they could have? I'm guessing that a lynch on someone who turns town (if Icy is actually town, I don't have a clear read either way anymore) is better when the Mafia don't have to actually throw their votes on it, but would they risk that? I guess I'm just not completely clear here.
UNVOTE: until I've got a clearer picture of what's going on.

I didn't vote for Icy on the early D2 because Icy is L-1. When I posted, Huntress had unvoted. I see no reason to bring it back to L-1 again.

[Accountant]

On Penguin's end, I think he was very quick to vote Huntress right after Accountant unvotes Icy even though he was pushing Icy for most of D2. Accountant listed out two people (scarlet and huntress) in 167 and immediately Penguin puts down a vote on Huntress in the next post. It seems too much of a co-incidence and looks like he's encouraging Accountant to push the scumread that's not his partner.

Where was I pushing Icy for most of D2? I never put my vote down on Icy. Also, I can't help that I responded to Icy's post at the exact same time as Account made his post. I didn't see it until p-edit, but there was nothing for me to comment on at that point.

Wow. Be more clear about your reads next time.

Who do you think is scum?

[PenguinPower]

Huntress.