Mini Normal 1832 [game over]

[BigYoshiFan]

dumb decision

You keep saying that, but you're not giving me any reason why. I like people that quote other people, and tell me why it's scummy. I like people that can analyze what people say, why they say it, and draw conclusions from it. That shows the effort that a townie would go through to win the game. You gave up, in fact you seem like you entered the game knowing you were gonna lose, and even if you are town, you don't deserve to win with the effort you've put in.

[Psyche]

that's not true
you're misrepresenting my iso
or just misreading it

[Psyche]

as i've said
my iso has more analysis in it than most people's in this thread
your protrayal of my activity is either lying or ignorance

[BigYoshiFan]

oh no i don't know how to handle forum crushes

vote Raskolnikov

this is buddying and i will not tolerate it

vote jake

his advocacy for an rvs seems like it was somehow serious as well as poorly justified

I would like to retract my previous statement.
How about we get Psyche to start contributing for real?

so much talk about other people contributing but his iso is basically nothing

light_ganski
is pretty newby - SE level, to be exact, though; evident in #72, #94
seems sincere, though?
not much she's said is useful but it does seem town
#208-#210 shows thought process that i feel only more experienced scum would know to fabricate; there is a chance she's walking back a vote that she's afraid will come off as opportunistic/lazy; stronger townread by this post for sure
#279 leaves me reasonably confident and cements a shift toward more useful content

BigYoshiFan
his answer to jaack in #231 is weak;
he's taking a moment to criticize having reads during the early game? who does that help? how does that contribute?
banal reads he only provides upon inquiry; rather passive play overall by #235
400/401 looks better i guess

MariaR
her vote on post 89 sort of extended RVS past its expiration date. Post 96 similarly suggests a mindset of someone who's having trouble not just scumhunting but faking scumhunting.
also, her exasperation about the early game's content seems disingenuous
in post 110 she makes her first "srs vote" in order to "get things going" but it's just for Gerry and comes with no justification at all; could she really have believed that would have

done

something her generic rvs wasn't?
the exchange through her #138 is just mehh, like she just did it to rid herself of suspicion
but there is some evidence of thought process that isn't outright avoidance of suspicion; she's trying to be sophisticated?
still no reads on post #278
380 is lame but seems, investigative?

Jake from State Farm
vacillates between casual (ex 78 where he sings the praises of an rvs lynch, or #285 where he's answering rask's rhetorical question to sing the praises of low-effort play) and on-edge (ex 422)
its hard to tell which are more convincing and which seem more skeevy; i'm just ambivalent about him
his reaction to my call for a policy lynch seemed rather tight-lipped. it's not that i expected him to produce some wordy reply; his just seemed sort of reserved
his #289 is so mixed up; i'm the closest thing to a scumread he has and warrant votes, but you're making a case for reading me as town?
and in #294 he's discrediting away the only reason someone would vote for me and think im town - the possibility of pressuring me into contribution
#301 is a smooth enough explanation that i don't see much point in thinking about this exchange further; if my shitposting were a sort of reaction test, the gist of this without the confusing exchange it follows is what a 'decisively' town reaction might look like

Psyche
is town; promise
would you guys believe me if i said i pull the shitposting schtick early often because it's the most low-effort way to get reactions?
doesn't really matter if you don't i suppose

gerryoat
by post #218 has been largely irrelevant
same by #280; there are signs he may just be lazy though
even by #355 still is just boring and trashy

ecane
easy townread?
doesn't seem to be trying to impress anyone, which scum might do with the role he's chosen to take itt

Raskolnikov
easy townread; doubt this is so controversial that i need to say more

Gear
is an alt; beware
and yet, nothing much several pages in?
he's here by page #240, but the vote isn't really very solid
cases on page 6 have to be overblown, gears' not excluded, and jack's vote for yoshi isn't even a good example of that fact
thinks like me in #298
with his #427 what i'm suspecting is that his rather stale play only seems clean because he's experienced

Gamma Emerald
says a lot without saying much. but hey it's day 1.
called rask's post "SCUMMY AS FUCK" and said the post "really pinged me" but there was no vote or further show of, er, passion about the possibility of rask scum afterward; one of the most likely shows of disingenuous emotion in the game so far
his #253 is wrong and also facile
so much talk about other people contributing but his posts are literally nothing; he retracts his #253 without prompting, which is interesting, shows a commitment to the truth that problematizes my hypothesis that he's just fluffposting/going through the motions
his #323 is weird; why does he have to be addressed in order to do things?

Jaack
in 226 he mentioned his belief that gerry was a good scum candidate, but had only vaguely gestured at that in his earlier posts
his vote is on gear and he's even made a small case on the dude in post #67, but there's more mention of gerry than him; kind of strange
given that this quip has little basis in his quotes, it seems more likely that the basis is actually in his own mind - ie that he does have actual scumreads and isn't just posturing; it's reasonably possible that he's confabulating scum, though
by post #226 i wish i could sort him as town but he's rather null
seems more town in #310 for obvious reasons; it's a good case for page whatever

these are my notes
it's a lot clearer where i am on everyone now, though the last few pages have made me less sure about lots of things
unfortunately, i don't have enough townreads or clear scumreads to confidently call a duo or trio, but i do have enough that i can demarcate which lynches i would and wouldn't accept today

it's so weird how someone can go from saying "random quicklynches on day 1 are nbd" to calling inactivity "inexcusable"

It's not weird at all actually. All lynches are useful, even quick lynches. Being a useless lurker isn't at all and is incredibly antitown/scummy.

this such a facile mindset that i'm having a hard time believing you sincerely have it

Prove it to me. I barely see anything that was quoted, just a bunch of 1-line or 2-line noncontributing commentary. The only thing that shows any effort is your wall of notes that you took... a while ago, but never cared to elaborate on.

[Psyche]

and your activity hasn't really been even nearly substantial for most of the game
just a bunch of banal or lazy insights questions that couldn't even imaginably lead anywhere useful besides moments like these

[BigYoshiFan]

Oh my god none of that is supposed to be there. But what I was trying to do is quote anything that shows any sort of analysis, though it may be very minute and not well backed up.

[BigYoshiFan]

and your activity hasn't really been even nearly substantial for most of the game
just a bunch of banal or lazy insights questions that couldn't even imaginably lead anywhere useful besides moments like these

Neither has yours until today.

[Psyche]

just a bunch of 1-line or 2-line noncontributing commentary

you know how to click the iso button but apparently not how to read what comes next

[Psyche]

and your activity hasn't really been even nearly substantial for most of the game
just a bunch of banal or lazy insights questions that couldn't even imaginably lead anywhere useful besides moments like these

Neither has yours until today.

day 1 was devoid of much useful to say and then when i said it jake decided to self-implode like i warned he might since the game started
we had a confirmed scum day 2
gamma was quicklynched before most anyone had a chance to say anything

[Psyche]

do you want me to quote and post everything itt i think involves analysis?
because i'll tell you now that it'll look a lot like me linking to my iso

[Psyche]

how many scum do we think are alive

[Psyche]

on day 1 if i'd had to call scum i'd have listed

gamma
gear
gerry
maria
yoshi

it wouldn't have worked out to lynch this way but that's why i'm glad one doesn't have to call scum day 1

unfortunately the majority of everyone i didnt like is still alive

about maria i noted...
her vote on post 89 sort of extended RVS past its expiration date. Post 96 similarly suggests a mindset of someone who's having trouble not just scumhunting but faking scumhunting.
also, her exasperation about the early game's content seems disingenuous
in post 110 she makes her first "srs vote" in order to "get things going" but it's just for Gerry and comes with no justification at all; could she really have believed that would have done something her generic rvs wasn't?
the exchange through her #138 is just mehh, like she just did it to rid herself of suspicion
but there is some evidence of thought process that isn't outright avoidance of suspicion; she's trying to be sophisticated?
still no reads on post #278
380 is lame but seems, investigative?

in general her contribution was lame and looked like acting;
only a few things changed about her afterward
there was her highly specious voting pattern on Day 2, yoshi's tracker claim, and the observation that she indulges in a bit of emotionality, which sort of colors any re-read of her iso
she also talks a lot about her past games, which may imply that she thinks about her behavior in terms of how it compares to her meta
i still think she's scummy; the alternative is that she's a really bad player

about gear i noted...
is an alt; beware
and yet, nothing much several pages in?
he's here by page #240, but the vote isn't really very solid
cases on page 6 have to be overblown, gears' not excluded, and jack's vote for yoshi isn't even a good example of that fact
thinks like me in #298
with his #427 what i'm suspecting is that his rather stale play only seems clean because he's experienced

gear still doesn't do much
he's always in the background, his posts are only substantial on the surface level; he's never really tried to make anything happen; every time he makes a show of reasoning through something the result is sort of specious
the word for his play is "stale", a step above active lurking
i've seen more experienced scum do it; it achieves the middling respectability that leaves the slot neither too suspicious to get lynched nor too townread to make one wonder why the NK hasn't been attracted yet;
the alternative to him being scum is that Gear just doesn't have the time or energy to actually try at this game

about yoshi...
his answer to jaack in #231 is weak;
he's taking a moment to criticize having reads during the early game? who does that help? how does that contribute?
banal reads he only provides upon inquiry; rather passive play overall by #235
400/401 looks better i guess

yoshi is flat out null
nothing comes out that screams town or scum

ecane looked town and so does iraona
if i'm wrong it's sort of lucky that the same scum slot would be filled by two competent scum players in one game

I guess if I'm to believe Yoshi's claim, then I should naturally support Gear's lynch. That idea repels me a lot because Maria seems so scummy while Gear's play is merely stale.

If I don't believe in Yoshi's claim, though, Maria is still the blinkers distracting me from reasonable play. He could easily be the only scum left, clearing Maria to lay groundwork for a gear/psych lynch train (ira would die N3). If there are two scum left, though, then the final scum has to be Maria (making this lylo), which I have trouble believing given Maria's voting record. On the other hand, irano and maria have both volunteered meta information suggesting that maria sometimes indulges in irrational play as scum to improve her position when town engages in associational analyses like these.

For me it's gear vs yoshi. Gear is easier to push, but also maybe wrong.

[Psyche]

Both had opportunities to quicklynch me. That they didn't suggests a 1-scum game. In fact, I'm ready to commit to the 1-scum theory.

[Gear]

I think anyone who thinks that I am scum after today's posts isn't really trying.

[Gear]

When I was thinking about balance before, I forgot that it is not too likely for the pinger to manage to confirm himself town, so knowing there is a rb I don't think having a tracker in the game is over powered for town. I believe Yoshi's claim, I won't be lynching Maria or Ira today.

Vote: Psyche

So the only reason you're believing my claim is because of balance?

Nope. Also your reaction to Jack's claim.

[Gear]

Yoshi, I asked you some questions, not long ago.

[Gear]

I'm VT.

Okay, but you didn't actually vote light.

Light was at L-1, I didn't feel the need to hurry the day up. You've mentioned the fact that I didn't vote light a couple of times, why do you think that it's relevant?

I haven't seen any other 11 player games, but 13 player games with 3 scum are typical, and 11 players with 2 scum, all vanilla is scum sided (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=68387) see post 11, so watcher + pinger, with scum RB doesn't seem crazy to me.

But with a roleblocker, I feel there should be more roles to block, no?

I don't know.

Okay... I'm a town tracker.
N1: Gerryoat targets Gamma Emerald
N2: Gamma Emerald targeted no one
N3: MariaR targeted no one

I keep getting scummy vibes from Maria, but because she didn't visit anyone, that's keeping me from making a strong scum read. She has no reason NOT to target anyone if she was scum, whether she was killing or roleblocking someone, right?

I don't believe this claim at all. I'll explain in my next post.

Where was he for Gamma's lynch?

You know Gamma was lynched quickly, why are you complaining about this?

[Psyche]

I think anyone who thinks that I am scum after today's posts isn't really trying.

lazy assertion

[Gear]

I think anyone who thinks that I am scum after today's posts isn't really trying.

lazy assertion

No it's correct. Getting people out of the belief that there are two scum in the game has been the most pro-town and productive thing to happen today.

[Gear]

you can lynch me today and i won't care much
but don't tell yourself again the lie that it was unavoidable or someone else's fault
i've made 116 posts since the game started and they include more substantial analysis than most people in this game have even approached
like your jake votes, like your gamma votes, like your jump-the-gun townreads
your incompetence will again be the day's story

Here it sounds like psyche thinks Yoshi's town, but later he says that Yoshi is in his top two scum reads.

[Gear]

From looking at light_ganski's ISO, it looks like ecane and Gamma Emerald are scum-aligned with her from the read list, and how light_ganski is hesitant to read ecane as town-aligned... There is little interaction with Gamma Emerald, and interaction with ecane is suspicious.

Also, it shows BigYoshiFan and probably Psyche as more town-aligned, the way she is pushing them can't be a bus.

Can you say what about light gave you this idea about ecane?

[Gear]

I mean what about light made you think that she was hesitant to read ecane as town-aligned.

[Psyche]

Here it sounds like psyche thinks Yoshi's town, but later he says that Yoshi is in his top two scum reads.

i did my analysis after that post
duh

[Psyche]

wanna guys how many times i've thought "duh" reading this thread
i'll tell you when the game is over something to get excited about

[Psyche]

I think anyone who thinks that I am scum after today's posts isn't really trying.

lazy assertion

No it's correct. Getting people out of the belief that there are two scum in the game has been the most pro-town and productive thing to happen today.

lol
congratulations
you're a real genius