Micro 648: Mystery Box Mafia - 't is gedaan!

[RyanK]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[NJAC]

@House - His questions feel leading and his vote on Not_Mafia was in fact useless, even if he disagrees. The way he casually says "I don't like the wagon on Flames" without explaining why or pushing on people who voted Flames looks like scum WK-ing a mislynch.

Elaborate how my questions feel "leading". WRT Flames: House voted him based on Flames' RVS vote, I think Flames' response to it was good. I saw nothing scummy from Flames. The way some players were jumping on that wagon seemed opportunistic (e.g.: Ryank's). It was page 2 and I didn't want to put someone at L-1 that early, even more considering that N_M is playing this game.

I was tempted to vote Ryank, but as I said, I wanted to hear more from Expedience. Meanwhile I thought my vote would be fine on N_M.

like Not_Mafia is not a player who will alignment-tell based off of an RVS vote on him. The fact that NJAC tried to use "meta" to justify that as a reason to vote him doesn't make sense.

I saw an attempt to PL N_M in a past game, seeing who supported that lynch and who didn't helped me to figure out N_M's alignment.

These questions. "Why exactly" is just an altogether scummy phrase in general IMO.

Now, you're trying hard to make me look bad. This is ludicrous, why is "Why exactly" a scummy phrase?

Yes, I automatically start to suspect people who RVS vote when there's already wagons and discussion happening. Instead of taking a stance either way on Flames (or even RyanK, the possible counterwagon), NJAC just votes a slot that hasn't posted yet. It's safe and not-productive.

You're misrepping me hard. I took a stance on Flames wagon by not voting him, and as I said before I commented on some posts in the very same post I voted. I already explained my vote on N_M so I repeat that I disagree it was not-productive.

I'm not saying he's definitely scum, he could just be cagey, but he's definitely giving the most scummy pings so far relative to the other posts, especially given a town!Flames

How exactly am I scummy for not putting at L-1 a flipped town, in page 2?

[NJAC]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

However, I may (or may not) switch out my role from the Mystery Box, so I'll update you all if I decide to do that

Did you switch?

[NJAC]

Yes

And according to your experience, is he eager only when he's town?

[NJAC]

Anyway, let's hear who NJAC thinks is scum now. If he votes the person I'm thinking of, he will be officially pardoned.

Who's that person and why will I be officialy pardoned?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Ryan, you explained your hop from Guilty to NJAC, but why go back to Guilty?

Actually if you could walk me through your entire thought process from today a bit more, that'd be nice. I don't think crazy vote hopping like that is extremely alignment indicative, but it's kind of strange to me and I'd like to know where it's coming from.

[Sméagol]

V

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Day 2 #01

NJAC [

1

]:

Expedience

GuiltyLion [

2

]:

RyanK

/

NJAC

Abstaining [4]:

gigabyteTroubadour / Not_Mafia / GuiltyLion /

House

There are 7 active players.
Absolute majority is

4

.
Majority has

not

been reached.

Start of day 2
Next vote count

Spoiler: Current playerlist

[1]

NJAC

[2]

House

[3] Maruchan † -

town

- vanilla - killed night 1

[4]

gigabyteTroubadour

[5] Flames682 † -

town

- hashtag doctor - lynched day 1

[6]

RyanK

[7]

Expedience

[8]

Not_Mafia

[9]

GuiltyLion

Spoiler: Days & nights

Day 1

Night 1

Day 2

Deadline is

22-10-2016 00:00:00 CEST

((expired on 2016-10-22 00:00:00)).

[GuiltyLion]

So I was also a neapolitan in addition to being ascetic, which is why I didn't trade the role.

I investigated RyanK and the action failed. I cannot be roleblocked, so I believe he is also ascetic, and he did not claim it.

VOTE: RyanK

[GuiltyLion]

I'm not saying he's definitely scum, he could just be cagey, but he's definitely giving the most scummy pings so far relative to the other posts, especially given a town!Flames

I've played with Not_Mafia a lot. I have experience with him myself. The idea that he'd react in a significant way to a lone RVS vote is a joke.

You have only played with Non_Mafia at the most 5 times. Why did you claim you play with Not_Mafia a lot.

Is 5 times not a lot? I haven't actually counted but I feel even just two or three games is enough experience to understand someone's playstyle. Further, I have read several other games he has played.

The point is that NJAC claiming that "meta" justified his RVS vote on NM is bad. Do you disagree?

[House]

VOTE: RyanK

Reasonable post from Guilty, I can sheep here for now.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

All roles are randomly generated. Generally speaking it's a role + modifier, though you can end up vanilla and / or with no mods.

hm...

Does having two ascetics mean that one is town and the other scum? I doubt that personally because of this, and I can see Ryan being a relatively new player not knowing to claim ascetic day 1. Doesn't make me want to townread him, of course, but I don't see this as a cop guilty.

[GuiltyLion]

Elaborate how my questions feel "leading". WRT Flames: House voted him based on Flames' RVS vote, I think Flames' response to it was good. I saw nothing scummy from Flames. The way some players were jumping on that wagon seemed opportunistic (e.g.: Ryank's). It was page 2 and I didn't want to put someone at L-1 that early, even more considering that N_M is playing this game.

I was tempted to vote Ryank, but as I said, I wanted to hear more from Expedience. Meanwhile I thought my vote would be fine on N_M.

Look, I can't explain exactly how my gut works, but the way you ask questions reads to me like you're trying to pressure solely for the sake of pressure, making people explain vague things they said rather than actually trying to discern their alignment. It may be playstyle-clash so I will give you some towncred if you are willing to wagon and lynch scum!RyanK with me.

What about Flames' response to House was good? And again, you're saying your vote was "fine" but that's not an argument that it would help game-solve.

P-EDIT: giga I suggest you wait to weigh in until we hear from RyanK

[NJAC]

So I was also a neapolitan in addition to being ascetic, which is why I didn't trade the role.

I investigated RyanK and the action failed. I cannot be roleblocked, so I believe he is also ascetic, and he did not claim it.

VOTE: RyanK

Why did you decide to investigate him?

[House]

I'm not saying he's definitely scum, he could just be cagey, but he's definitely giving the most scummy pings so far relative to the other posts, especially given a town!Flames

I've played with Not_Mafia a lot. I have experience with him myself. The idea that he'd react in a significant way to a lone RVS vote is a joke.

NJAC presented a good question, made me revisit Guilty's ISO where i found this.

Guilty, why didn't you investigate NJAC if you were suspicious of him?

[NJAC]

Look, I can't explain exactly how my gut works, but the way you ask questions reads to me like you're trying to pressure solely for the sake of pressure, making people explain vague things they said rather than actually trying to discern their alignment.

Asking questions is the way I use to discern alignments. I admit my first questions were not too deep, but there's obviously not much to work with only two pages.

It may be playstyle-clash so I will give you some towncred if you are willing to wagon and lynch scum!RyanK with me.

I better wait to hear more from him.

What about Flames' response to House was good? And again, you're saying your vote was "fine" but that's not an argument that it would help game-solve.

Better question: what about Flames' response was scummy in your eyes? I saw a natural response to explain an RVS vote, and to deal with House's pressure.

I already explained my vote on N_M and my reasons for it, I think my vote was fine for those reasons, if there's something you still don't find clear let me know.

[NJAC]

I can see Ryan being a relatively new player not knowing to claim ascetic day 1. Doesn't make me want to townread him, of course, but I don't see this as a cop guilty.

Why are you conjecturing instead of letting Ryank explain?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I can see Ryan being a relatively new player not knowing to claim ascetic day 1. Doesn't make me want to townread him, of course, but I don't see this as a cop guilty.

Why are you conjecturing instead of letting Ryank explain?

i got jumpy, still trying to learn when to shut up

ryan is kind of an oddity to me right now and i wanted him to answer my question before we started lynching him. i wanted to make it clear that i don't think guilty has a guilty on him and the way the vote was placed made it seem like one, so piling on votes because of an interesting result might not be the smartest move.

[House]

I can see Ryan being a relatively new player not knowing to claim ascetic day 1. Doesn't make me want to townread him, of course, but I don't see this as a cop guilty.

Why are you conjecturing instead of letting Ryank explain?

i got jumpy, still trying to learn when to shut up

ryan is kind of an oddity to me right now and i wanted him to answer my question before we started lynching him. i wanted to make it clear that i don't think guilty has a guilty on him and the way the vote was placed made it seem like one, so piling on votes because of an interesting result might not be the smartest move.

It's not like he was going to be speedlynched in less than a day.

Let shit play out.

[House]

So I was also a neapolitan in addition to being ascetic, which is why I didn't trade the role.

Why does getting "Vanilla/Not Vanilla" results as well as being untargetable

for anything except kills

make it a desirable role?

You're a sitting duck for the night kill, and your results don't serve any realistic purpose in a role madness game.

[Expedience]

I think Ryan will be able to explain, I don't think that's a damning result. I'm not going to say why now though for reasons.

[Expedience]

Yes

And according to your experience, is he eager only when he's town?

Not sure

I am currently ascetic

Why exactly do you think it's a good idea to reveal that info this early?

I can see Ryan being a relatively new player not knowing to claim ascetic day 1. Doesn't make me want to townread him, of course, but I don't see this as a cop guilty.

Why are you conjecturing instead of letting Ryank explain?

This is the origin of NJAC's scumposting.

[RyanK]

So I was also a neapolitan in addition to being ascetic, which is why I didn't trade the role.

I investigated RyanK and the action failed. I cannot be roleblocked, so I believe he is also ascetic, and he did not claim it.

VOTE: RyanK

I swapped my role in the night.

Ryan, you explained your hop from Guilty to NJAC, but why go back to Guilty?

Actually if you could walk me through your entire thought process from today a bit more, that'd be nice. I don't think crazy vote hopping like that is extremely alignment indicative, but it's kind of strange to me and I'd like to know where it's coming from.

Here

I'm not saying he's definitely scum, he could just be cagey, but he's definitely giving the most scummy pings so far relative to the other posts, especially given a town!Flames

I've played with Not_Mafia a lot. I have experience with him myself. The idea that he'd react in a significant way to a lone RVS vote is a joke.

You have only played with Non_Mafia at the most 5 times. Why did you claim you play with Not_Mafia a lot.

VOTE: NJAC

[RyanK]

Scum claiming ascetic is usually a terrible idea whether they are really ascetic or not, so I'm inclined to townread Guilty for that alone. I might want to double check the mystery box mechanics for something later, though. Regardless, getting generally good vibes from his posts, too

Flames might actually be the fastest scumread I've picked up in a game, I don't know if the other people on the wagon can say the same.

Why did you think flames was scum?

[RyanK]

I'm going to swap my role so I won't be ascetic.

[House]

I'm going to swap my role so I won't be ascetic.

We're you ascetic last night or no?