Open 35: Big Love - Game over!

[Bookitty]

You're agreeing that you're the proper lynch for today, Sikario?

Mod edit
Votecount:

Sikario8 (1): Ether

Not voting: the rest

With 11 alive it's 6 to lynch.

[Skruffs]

Well, actually, you are forcing observations on me that I don't think are merited.
Why would sikario be the best lynch?

The Fonz stated that he thought Setael said that Sarcastro was her main target of suspicion. BooKitty says, in response:

"In her PM to me, she identified Zindaras as a suspect, not Sarcastro, and while she pointed out that she had at one time had suspicion of Erg0, she no longer felt that way. The Fonz's statements regarding ryan are correct to my knowledge"

to ME, this sounds like maybe Fonz didn't know that Boo got to talk with her precessor, and was trying to deflect attention away from Zindaras onto Sarcastro. At that moment in the game it looked like it was going to be a quick lynch - maybe he was gambitting and it failed. So I guess I am wondering why this would be ignored, and why Sikario is being targetted instead.

I guess I haven't really been paying attention enough, I just mean, Why sikario and not someone else?

[Erg0]

I'm guessing it's more based on previous form than on anything that Fonz/Bookitty have said.

Man, I was all set to just lynch one of Fonz or Bookitty and now I have to actually

think

!

[Erg0]

Incidentally, I've finally wrapped my head around the numbers (thanks to Ether) and agree that lynching a non-lover is the play today. My previous reads would lead me to go for ryan, but those haven't exactly been bulletproof thus far. I'm going to do some re-thinking prior to voting, though I'd probably be open to sikario, especially after that last post.

[Skruffs]

Mod: IN the opening credits of the game, it is said that if one lover dies, the other lover dies 'with them', presumably at the same time.
When Sir Tornado was nightkilled, Adel died the same night. But when Numenorean7 was lynched, pickemgenius committed suicide the following night. Is this a discrepancy?

[Lawrencelot]

Mod: IN the opening credits of the game, it is said that if one lover dies, the other lover dies 'with them', presumably at the same time.
When Sir Tornado was nightkilled, Adel died the same night. But when Numenorean7 was lynched, pickemgenius committed suicide the following night. Is this a discrepancy?

A lover commits suicide during the night his/her lover dies, or the night after the partner is lynched. After the lynch scene the day is over (there's only one death during the day), and town goes to sleep, so they only found out the lover committed suicide when they woke up again.

[Sikario8]

Happy holidays, everyone.

A WEEK OUT OF SCHOOL!

[Bookitty]

Sikario won't be posting for a week due to a school break, when he's one of the main suspects?

-sighs-

[Erg0]

That won't help his nomination chances.

At least I'll have time for a proper re-read...

[Bookitty]

I'm currently waiting for Mert's input. Right now my list of possible scum (in more or less the order I find them suspicious) is this:

• The Fonz (I know he's scum)
  
  Sikario/Manaspryte/Guardian
  
  Mert (for Zindaras' play, since we have no content for Mert yet)
  
  Skruffs, for YogurtBandit's play and for seemingly not really reading the posts. I've stated several times now that I replaced Sacred, not Setael. He persistently hasn't noticed this, even though it's been directed at him. Mistakes happen, but this one seems very persistent, and indicative of someone not paying much attention -- scum wouldn't need to pay much attention, since they know who's town.

@Lawrencelot: Request prods for Jalyn and LoudmouthLee, please? Thanks!

[ryan]

I think the one thing people need to remember is how Guardian left the game, Manaspryte refused to scumhunt and now Sikario8 basically said he can see why he'd be lynched. I'm starting to feel as though he is the currect lynch, but with him not posting for a week now...........well it's not helping your case to NOT be lynched Sikario8

[Skruffs]

BooKitty, I have noticed this, but I forget to replace setael's name with sacred. It's like a glitch in my head, I just put setael down instead. I *really* think that is a bad reason to suspect someone, for putting names down wrong, ESPECIALLY, since Setael even isn't in this game.

[Lawrencelot]

@Lawrencelot: Request prods for Jalyn and LoudmouthLee, please? Thanks!

Consider it done

[NabakovNabakov]

He'd be my best bet. Do you have a preference for someone else?

I could see us lynching Sik, but not quicklynching. With so many people AWOL, it's tough to get a good idea of the game. Zindaras seriously dropped of in abouts D2, right when solid info can start catching up to scum-checks written D1. Sarcastro pinged my scumdar off and on, and we haven't gotten anything constructive out of LML in the past day and a half.

[Ether]

While LML and Mert are indeed inactive and I can't chew you out as hard as I might like to...I still don't feel that this is a straight answer.

What's your impression of Erg0? Ryan? Skruffs? All of them

do

have posts on this page.

Do you think that, under what is currently known, a Sikario lynch would be the lynch most likely to hit scum? (Not counting the lovers, obviously.)

Mod:

prod Mert?

[Ether]

What's your impression of Erg0? Ryan? Skruffs? All of them

do

have posts on this page.

On second thoughts, yeah, inactivity clause is fair. Rank those three in relation to each other and we're cool.

[NabakovNabakov]

What's your impression of Erg0? Ryan? Skruffs? All of them do have posts on this page.

Since Erg0 started playing, he's been playing a quite cautious game. Nudging here, prodding there, generally only taking stands that somebody else had taken before, but what he says makes sense, and I can understand him not wanting to draw any more attention to himself. His behavior attacking Xdaamno was justified, and he was one of the few to actually post a paragraph or two on how he could be scum (I still think that wagon was a result of bad play on Xdaamno's part rather than any scum manevolence, so I would look for the lazy wagoners as the scummiest) Additionally, the deadline wagon on him grew

way

too fast for comfort.

Ryan has been a difficult one through this entire game, technically, he should be dead, but he keeps managing to cheat it out. Just about every lynch up till now has come with a "he's definitely scum with Ryan, let's lynch him today and Ryan tomorrow" rider. His play has been erratic and he has a tendancy to make an ass of himself in 1-1 conversations. He has not played cautiously, even when under the gun, and he was

the

suspect of the lover we now expect to be scum. Ryan's play might make me occasionally cringe, but I'm not sure if

any

of the concrete information we've gathered to this point makes him any more likely to be scum.

Skruffs is replacing YogurtBandit (who I consider a brick wall in terms of reads), but I don't like his play so far. He lurked pretty much through to the Xdaamno-wagon (with the occasional apology for doing so), and his behavior on that wagon seems to match up with scum trying to come out of a town-wagon with a lynch and a good reputation. He oscilates from attacks to doubt from post to post.

Part 6 in the series...

Xdaamno

In the early game, he has a lot of posts containing points on theory but not many opinions on specific players. Kind of wishy-washy in his 6th post when he gives rundowns on 4 players, first solid suspicion is of Sarc in 19 (agreeing with NabNab), still only an IGMEOY. Roundup in post 24, still no particularly strong suspicions (only really seems to dislike Sarc). Eventually votes Sarc in 31 despite not having a particularly strong case against him (2nd vote on Sarc when the biggest wagon (Guardian) had 3). Says he realised he was coming across as being too conservative. Goes back into theory discussion right after this. Says in 40 that his suspicion of Sarc is dimming. Meanders around for a while longer, thinks flea is scummy then likes him again, thinks Guardian is scummy. Votes Jordan at the last minute on day 2 when it's clear he'll be the lynch.

NabNab calls him out for lurking at the start of day 3, which I completely agree with based on my read to this point. Xd's defence regarding hunting scum while staying out of the way would only be valid if he were actually hunting scum. All he's done so far is say "I find this guy scummy, but I could be wrong". The classic "we disagree, but let's leave it at that" post (112) isn't far behind. He starts to become a little more aggressive in his posting after this, which I'm sure isn't a coincidence.

Xdaamno is a little like ryan in that he seems to be playing very cautiously - he just got away with it for longer before being called out. I'd put him o nequal footing with ryan as a scum candidate at this point.

Xdaamno, you are presented with charges of playing cautiously, being wishy-washy, and not being agressive.

How do you plead?

<snip>

Xdaamno seems to be a popular choice right now, which I do'nt exactly see, what some people may consider crap may actually haev a nugget of.. corn... in it.... But from what I see, most of his posts lately seem to be criticizing the way other people are analyzing thigns rather than analyzing things himself.

I'm more trustful of ether, erg0, less of Numenorean.
I might as well start actively putting myself out there and contributing with mroe than just "I'll post later" posts.

Vote : Xdaamno

<snip>
Maybe Xdaamno is just trying not to piss people off, because he's the vote leader right now. I said I could be wrong.

Unvote, Vote : Ryan

There's an utter lack of consistency, and you definitely get the impression that Skruffs

knew

Xdaamno was town/doc.

Based on that:

Scummy:
1) Skruffs
2) Erg0
3) Ryan

(Erg0 and Ryan both rank very low, but Ryan moreso than Erg0).

I'm not sure if I would support a Sik lynch over a Skruffs lynch. I need to think on this.

[Skruffs]

Why would I be consistent regarding someone that was being bandwagoned who hadn't claimed? How would I know he was the doctor at all?
As for lurkign, it was a big game, and I had lots of other big games going on, and I wasn't quite buying into everything. THE post where I voted Xdaamno was probably my first seriously intentional post in the game, the rest before that was more me trying to sink into it.

I mean if you want to think that's scummy, that's fine, but it's, in my opinion, similar to BooKitty thinking I am suspicious for misplacing SEtael and Sacred. Bookitty hasn't responded to my refute of that point.


Why do you say you "Could see us lynching sik"? What would be the reasoning behind it?

[NabakovNabakov]

Why would I be consistent regarding someone that was being bandwagoned who hadn't claimed? How would I know he was the doctor at all?

You switched positions from post to post, there's not excuse for that. All that really matters is that if you're scum, you would have known Xdaamno was doc.

If voting Xdaamno was your first serious post, why was it phrased like a throwaway? Why did you take it back a few pages later?

Why do you say you "Could see us lynching sik"? What would be the reasoning behind it?

Like Ryan, Guardian/Manaspryte/sikario has been a perrenial candidate for the lynch, but unlike Ryan, I think the majority of the points against him are valid. (Do you seriously need me to comb over 90 pages to find them?)However, the entire case has never felt firm or coherent to me. That's my only qualm.

[Bookitty]

I mean if you want to think that's scummy, that's fine, but it's, in my opinion, similar to BooKitty thinking I am suspicious for misplacing SEtael and Sacred. Bookitty hasn't responded to my refute of that point.

Hmmm, I didn't think a response was required. I noticed an error you were making even after having it specifically pointed out, and you admitted to it but said it wasn't scummy. At that point I think it's up to others to decide for themselves if they think you 1) weren't paying attention and thus repeated this error, or 2) if it's a legitimate mental block about the names.

I surely can't prove this either way. But simply giving your reasons doesn't constitute a refutation either, for what it's worth.

[Skruffs]

"is that if you're scum, you would have known Xdaamno was doc. "
This doesn't make sense. How do *You* know that the scum know who the doctor is?
If I knew who the doctor was, why would I have even voted him in the first place?

What makes the points against Sikario 'better' than the points against RYan? More importantly, what do you thinkt he points against Sikario *are*?

I 'took it back' because I changed my mind. It happens.

Bookitty - A similar block was attempting to happen regarding switching up Numenom and Nabakov. I guess I jsut put more attention into that. Still, wether I was paying attention or not, I don't think messing up someone's name is a scum tell.

[Skruffs]

BooKitty, I feel it is a lot more likely that you are the town partner than the alternative, but I think that... If I give my answers, I have refuted you. I mean I think that's the definition. Then it comes down to you either believing those reasons or posting more reasons counterrefuting me. That's just debating. But if I have responded... you can't say I haven't. Wether you respond to them or not.

[Bookitty]

We're having a semantic argument about the difference between "respond" and "refute". I think I'm right, but I don't think it adds anything relevant to the discussion, so I'm dropping it. You've responded to my point sufficiently in my view, and NabNab's post contains a more serious accusation and one I'd prefer you address more fully. As in, what changed your mind, what were your thoughts at the time of the changes, and did you suspect that Xdaamno was the doc before his claim?

I made a case against Guardian/Manaspryte in my post 1932, if you want to read it over.

[NabakovNabakov]

"is that if you're scum, you would have known Xdaamno was doc. "
This doesn't make sense. How do *You* know that the scum know who the doctor is?
If I knew who the doctor was, why would I have even voted him in the first place?

What makes the points against Sikario 'better' than the points against RYan? More importantly, what do you thinkt he points against Sikario *are*?

I 'took it back' because I changed my mind. It happens.
<snip>

Sorry, I phrased that wrong. I meant "If you were scum, you would have known Xdaamno was

town

, doc or no"


I never said the points against Sikario were "better," so I have no idea why you put that word in quotation marks. Among the points against G/M/S:

1) Poor play the first RL day of the game. Later blamed on a "bad day"
2) Leaving lynch wagons on D1 and D2 just before deadline then claiming it confirmed his towniness
3) Erratic play the beginning of D2*
4) Messy exit from the game (borderline)
5) Shirking cases and commitments as ManaSpryte
6) Another messy exit
7) Borderline lurking as Sikario



*Day Two is when info is most likely to come back and bite the scum. Much of the high conjecture that kept them alive D1 is going to come back to haunt them and will certainly restrict their play if they want to stay consistent.

[Skruffs]

Thank you, Nabakov. That is the summary I was looking for.
BooKitty - I had no clue. I was not looking for the doctor, if that is what you are asking. I was looking for scum. I noticed that XDAamno was beign not so much defensive as nervous, but in hindsightt, that makes sense because he was the doctor and knew he couldn't be protected. At the time, I thought he was trying to make an effort to lay low (which to be honest is a bad move as a doctor in any game), and interpreted that behavior as possibly scummy, posssibly town. I really wasn't paying any atetntion thte possibility fo him being the doctor. Were you?