Newbie 1741 - Game Over

[nn30]

@Zito - Self vouch was post 38.

I'm afraid I fail to see any real scumhunting here, nor do I see what's earned your top townread status.

If none of this is scumhunting, would you mind pointing me to examples which

are

scumhunting?

@Titus - post your reasons. Maybe we can help identify the weakest of your town reads.

[Titus]

Also Titus my name is Empoof that's been bugging me since you started using Emproof D2. Not why I'm scumreading you though

Night kills: Arona and Dunn. Someone give me reasons why these 2 died. Mostly Arona. I read through Arona and am not seeing anything that jumps out at me. Dunn was Papa's homie at the end of D2 and sassed Titus but I haven't read through them yet.

Titus what was your line of questions going for yesterday, it felt like there was no wind in your sails. Most of the questions felt loaded or reasonless.

I'm gonna tear into Titus/nn EoD 1 since I remember titus goading nn for the shaddow hammer

I was fishing a bit. Something felt off that I couldn't explain. I feel like that kill was almost designed to make my theory look bad, but why? *scratch* Something is off with my reads so I'll get to NN30 in a moment.

[Titus]

@Zito - Self vouch was post 38.

I'm afraid I fail to see any real scumhunting here, nor do I see what's earned your top townread status.

If none of this is scumhunting, would you mind pointing me to examples which

are

scumhunting?

@Titus - post your reasons. Maybe we can help identify the weakest of your town reads.

Ok, let's go.

You don't really make sense as a Zito buddy. The way Zito is framing you as scum whiteknighting me or my hypothetical buddy isn't exactly likely in a scum!Zito universe. Possible sure. Likely no. Combined with his openings on you and me, knowing I am town I'm not really inclined to find you scummy.
Morning Tweet has been pretty town since go and Zito hard buddying that slot doesn't suggest scum.
Then we have Empoof, who hasn't really been acting like scum in his push on me to elucidate my reads in order to get a better grasp on them.

Yet, we're at 5 players. One of you must be scum. Gun to my head, Empoof solely because of his last post where he said Morning Tweet could be on any scumteam. That doesn't really look like he's progressing the game and could be planning if Papa dies in a bus. Even I realize that's a bit of a stretch but I'm picking someone in order to shake my reads up as one MUST be wrong. TWO if Papa is town (which is unlikely)

[nn30]

Well here's the first thing.

You [Nn30] don't really make sense as a Zito buddy. The way Zito is framing you as scum whiteknighting me or my hypothetical buddy isn't exactly likely in a scum!Zito universe. Possible sure. Likely no.

Combined with...

Zito hard buddying that slot doesn't suggest scum.

Doesn't make sense.

Your logic:

1) Zito frames me as scum. Therefore, I must be town.
2) Zito buddies Tweet. Therefore, she must be town.

They both can't be indicators of town.

So either Zito is actually town (I agree, unlikely) or you need you rethink your Morning Tweet read.

[Titus]

Well here's the first thing.

You [Nn30] don't really make sense as a Zito buddy. The way Zito is framing you as scum whiteknighting me or my hypothetical buddy isn't exactly likely in a scum!Zito universe. Possible sure. Likely no.

Combined with...

Zito hard buddying that slot doesn't suggest scum.

Doesn't make sense.

Your logic:

1) Zito frames me as scum. Therefore, I must be town.
2) Zito buddies Tweet. Therefore, she must be town.

They both can't be indicators of town.

So either Zito is actually town (I agree, unlikely) or you need you rethink your Morning Tweet read.

No. There's two differing behaviors. Scum don't whiteknight all of town and scumread all of scum or vice versa. How people treat others can be indicative of their own alignment.

As for Morning Tweet, scum don't generally campaign for the votes of their buddy. That doesn't make sense, suggesting Morning Tweet is town.
Scum also don't attack the credibility of their buddy in lylo unless setting up for a bus. That suggests you're town.
Then there's Empoof, who Papa Zito has been wierd with so he's the best bet but *shrug* I partially wonder whether I am selling it to myself.

[Papa Zito]

If none of this is scumhunting, would you mind pointing me to examples which

are

scumhunting?

From Titus? I'm hard-pressed to find any.

So either Zito is actually town (I agree, unlikely)

Justify this read plz.

[Papa Zito]

That's to both of you, nn and Titus. You're both softballing my name, justify your reads.

[Titus]

Papa, thoughts on Empoof?

What do you mean by softballing?

[Xalxe]

Vote Count 3.3

There are plenty of fish in the sea. Some just happen to be imbibed with mercury.

Not Voting

: Empoof, nn30, Papa Zito, Titus, Morning Tweet

With 5 alive, it's 3 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2016-11-06 09:27:10)

[Papa Zito]

What do you mean by softballing?

Your teeheehee zito is scum routine is getting old.

Justify your read.

[Titus]

Already did. You aren't solving anyone.

I can see you ignored my request for your read on Empoof. Why not answer it if you have one?

[Titus]

If you don't answer by the time my morning court ends, I am voting you PZ.

[Papa Zito]

I've already answered that question. Clearly you're not reading.

I don't see a justification anywhere. Make a case.

[Titus]

I did that. Sorry you cannot assail it. Not Sorry.

Care to quote where you reach a decision on him?

[Papa Zito]

No I'm saying I essentially scumread all three and I'm desperately trying to sort them with all the various reading things I'm doing.

Did that where? Links or quotes.

[Titus]

That's not reaching a decision.

Tbh, I would already be voting you but Empoof's comments about Papa Zito/Titus are ridiculous.

[Papa Zito]

No I'm saying I essentially scumread all three and I'm desperately trying to sort them with all the various reading things I'm doing.

Did that where? Links or quotes.

[Empoof]

That's not reaching a decision.

Tbh, I would already be voting you but Empoof's comments about Papa Zito/Titus are ridiculous.

It doesn't seem so ridiculous when you only need 1 to make it into f3 to win

. Also how does this stop your vote, we shouldn't be voting until last day anyways.
You guys are also

BOTH

just talking past each other. I don't like when my tinfoil crackpot theory makes sense either. I see it as the least likely option but it's still an option. Why do I feel like the only one presenting a wide erray of scum teams.

Shouldn't the other 2 villagers be considering all the lines since they don't know who scum is?

Scum can do so much shade throwing and bussing during this f5 it's ridiculous. I even have reason to believe MT is scum while he's my "most townie" player but am the only one that's expressed that.

When scumhunting, we should be seeking resolution, right or wrong. Being able to vote anyone at any time is a red flag just as much as buddying. I am pretty sure Zito is scum using that standard but I want to find the other scum before I vote. The catch is there's good reason to doubt all of you as scum.

Can you give me more on why Papa is scum than this and white-knighting.

Papa respond to the above Titus post. Also give us an example of good scumhunting from someone from this game.

You guys are clearly forming a line in the sand of Papa v Titus. As it stands I'm more convinced of Papa. I don't see why scum!papa sits on the sidelines of algebra v nn and then forms the shaddow wagon. Was he trying to make himself appear more townie? He was widely town read and easily could've went on either of these wagons without looking scummy at a lot of different points. Explain this for me please, especially from nn's perspective, as this is a real hang up for me.

nn give me succinct post on why Titus is your basically locked town so I can refer to it easier. What's your reaction when Papa picked apart Titus' scumhunting. Give me more on scum!Papa. It's a red flag for me when nn/titus have been painting town!zito as "unlikely" and I can't find why.

@Emproof, It wasn't so much that I wanted Papa over Algebra, but I was alarmed at the lack of scumhunting going on. No one was trying to press the game forward, and

something felt off

about Papa Zito. So I pressured it.

I was fishing a bit.

Something felt off

that I couldn't explain. I feel like that kill was almost designed to make my theory look bad, but why? *scratch*

Something is off

with my reads so I'll get to NN30 in a moment.

I'm putting these here because I want your explanations to not have "something was off" in it and have you put some meat in your argumentation.

Morning Tweet needs to get in this thread

[Empoof]

I keep reading the Papa/Titus back and forth above and it looks like 2 little kids fighting in a playground

"You're not answering my question"
"YOU'RE not answering my question"
"You're clearly not reading"
"YOU'RE clearly not reading"

[Papa Zito]

[1]When scumhunting, we should be seeking resolution, right or wrong. [2]Being able to vote anyone at any time is a red flag just as much as buddying. [3]I am pretty sure Zito is scum using that standard but I want to find the other scum before I vote. The catch is there's good reason to doubt all of you as scum.

Papa respond to the above Titus post.

Ok.

1. Yes, sure.
2. I've already stated I don't have any desire to vote Tweet.
3. See 2

There's really no substance to that post.

Also give us an example of good scumhunting from someone from this game.

Sure. There's more to this sequence but look at this series of posts.

Spoiler: Scumhunting=yes

Self preservation?

what?

Seriously, did you not put together that newbie scum might suggest no lynch because they fear getting lynched?

Shaddowez already answered this but no, it never crossed my mind that someone would fear getting lynched on page freaking 2.

Can you explain how "fear of getting lynched" is specific to newb scum only and not something that'd afflict newb town?

It could be either. I voted to start the sorting process. I wanted to figure out whether the fear was town or scum motivated. The best way to do that was to increase the pressure he feels.

Can you show me where you attempted to do this sorting?

No no no no no.

You stated the purpose of that vote was to "start the sorting process." The sorting process would "figure out whether the fear was town or scum motivated."

I'm asking you to show us the sorting process you're referring to.

Ok Zito is probably town.

Just need two more town to powerblock through this.

Is this appeasement or what

I actually do want my question answered.

idc if you're annoyed, I'm not getting what I want. I asked about your process. You said the word "process" I used the word "process" at no point did I ever dig at you about "questions". Where is your process. How does it work. Show me what it was supposed to be doing. You "increased the fear level" gr8 but how the hell does that sort anybody. Is this thing on? ¿Estoy hablando Inglés?

Like this shouldn't be so hard. I'm literally trying to get at what your motivation was on that vote cuz what was posted in-game made 0 sense. It's super easy to understand what I'm trying to get at here and thus (AND THUS) should be super easy to just provide what I'm looking for and move on. Why am I having to drag this shit over multiple pages?

So here's where my thoughts are right now. Please chime in if you agree / disagree.

How can you have 0 read on me? I'm the loudest thing here.

It's because you are not listening that's so frustrating.

I am listening. If I listened any harder my head would implode. Do you want me to have an imploded head.

I guess the part I'm

still having trouble with

is that a naked vote with 0 interaction doesn't really do much to ramp up pressure so I'm just completely at a loss to how you expected to achieve your intended result. I mean is this an ego thing? Do you think Random Newbie is gonna be so scared that they were voted by The Great and Mighty Titus that they'll just wet the bed and spill the goods?

Contrast that to what Titus has done this game.

Spoiler: Scumhunting=no

Ooooh thanks.

VOTE: Titus

no lynches are bad, but so is voting for someone for legitimately asking a question. you could've at least waited for an answer y'know?

How do you assume the question is legitimate?

I see someone wanting to ensure scum feel no heat today as possible scum. It needs to be examined.

^ does not compute

more Titus votes plz

You don't compute. You know as an IC, I am not allowed to lie about mechanics, so why are you insinuating I am?

algebra is the other SE slot, Titus.

Yeah, my point exactly. He's trying wounded puppy dog defense, while acting dumber than he is.

Arona, are you alegbra's buddy?

I don't really believe that the vote was random. I voted for titus because I interpreted her post as first acknowledging that nn30's question about new lynches was just a newbie question, and then voting for nn30 as if nn30 legitimately wanted to push a no lynch. It just struck me as odd.

Oh you. I like you.

This is precisely what earned my vote. There's were some screwball mental gymnastics involved with that post and I'd love to hear Titus explain wtf was going on in her headmeat when she made it.

Newbie scum that wanted a no lynch.

That's not mental gymnastics but calling out self preservation when I see it.

Self preservation?

what?

Seriously, did you not put together that newbie scum might suggest no lynch because they fear getting lynched?

The difference is stark and obvious.

pedit: That's not at all what's going on here WHY WON'T SOMEONE OTHER THAN TWEET BE TOWN JESUS CHRIST

[Papa Zito]

Since Empoof has decided to be an ass and nobody else is actually putting in any effort I'm going on a mini vacation.

Ya'll fucking do something I'll see you later.

[Empoof]

Since Empoof has decided to be an ass and nobody else is actually putting in any effort I'm going on a mini vacation.

Ya'll fucking do something I'll see you later.

I would say I counterbalanced my assness with decent questions

[Morning Tweet]

nn is treating Titus like confirmed town. It doesn't look like he can be persuaded otherwise.

I don't think that's a smart move for an nn/Titus scumteam, but it certainly feels suspicious to me. I explored other motivations for nn.

Let's say nn is scum. Perhaps he is buddying up with Titus to set up the f3 for his real scumpartner?

Here's what the buddying strategy would look like if I'm wrong:

nn/Titus scumteam-
nn buddies Titus while pushing Zito. To lynch Zito, he just needs Empoof or myself to vote with him. He either:
1) Successfully sways one of us to help him, Zito is lynched.
2) Their plan falls apart if nn or Titus is lynched, as they've been voting together yet still amassed three votes from town. Almost guaranteed lost f3.

Now compare that to other scumteams:

nn/Zito scumteam-
Again, nn buddies Titus and pushes Zito. In addition to needing Empoof/myself, he also needs Titus' vote.
1) Zito is lynched and flips scum. Titus looks really good for tomorrow, but nn would have a chance of winning against Empoof or I.
2) nn is lynched and flips scum. Titus is "framed" by his buddying. The Titus/nn narrative has been in the spotlight for a while now, it's not unreasonable for nn to try to do this.

nn/Empoof scumteam-
nn buddies Titus and pushes Zito. He needs just Titus to lynch Zito (although he could try to persuade me to help, he doesn't really need to when you've got the Zito v. Titus going on).
1) Zito is lynched, game over.
2) nn is lynched, if Empoof bussed him rather than Titus voting him, it'd pretty much lock the f3.

These seem to get progressively better as we get further and further away from Titus.

It could be intentional WIFOM from nn and Titus, sure. However the buddying feels like it'd net negative to me.

Various Pedits (I've been thinking and building on this post as I work irl)//

Empoof I hear you, we have to look at all the possibilities. But as tempting as it is to not trust anyone we've got to make a unanimous decision to be able to lynch scum.

Sheesh, it's not like I left the thread for a whole day. Is there anything specific you'd like to hear from me?

Are you bringing up Titus and Zito's fighting style to suggest it looks staged, so the "Titus/Zito" scumteam may have legs?

[Empoof]

Empoof I hear you, we have to look at all the possibilities. But as tempting as it is to not trust anyone we've got to make a unanimous decision to be able to lynch scum.

Sheesh, it's not like I left the thread for a whole day. Is there anything specific you'd like to hear from me?

Are you bringing up Titus and Zito's fighting style to suggest it looks staged, so the "Titus/Zito" scumteam may have legs?

I just want you as a driving force on this day. If everyone is reading you town your opinion and outlook are really important. I know we have to make a unanimous decision today. I think odd scumteams should still have been considered which is why I brought up the ever unlikely Titus/Zito in the first place. I'm not giving the Titus/Zito scumteam legs with the fighting, I'm just pointing out that they are acting like children in their squabble and with neither of them really budging it wasn't doing anything productive. I still think it's the least likely pair but I want the townies that make it to f3 to not overlook anything.

I don't need anything specific from you right now, keep making posts like that last one and I'll be happy.

I think it's safe to remove Zito from the scum discussion. He was the first to vote Shadow - scum don't like to rock the boat and stick their neck out that way.

So either Zito is actually town (I agree, unlikely) or you need you rethink your Morning Tweet read.

nn answer all my stuff and tell me what happened between these 2 posts.

[nn30]

Re: Zito scumread - after the Algebra flip, I did an iso of Zito. Other than getting Shadow lynched, he spent most of day one on the sidelines. On day two the most proactive thing he did was to speed up the Algebra lynch. That, coupled with the fact that he refuses to see the possibility of Titus!Town, is resulting in my scum reading him. This is the answer to Empoof's question in 648.

Re: Empoof's questions in 642 - a scum!Zito would have known that Algebra and myself would have flipped town. Since there's no difference between us, he sat on the sidelines (because why bother?) As far as lynching Shadow, I think he saw the opportunity to throw shade on another townie. Unfortunately for us, Shadow's reaction to this felt scummy and he got lynched for it. I don't think Papa ever expected to get a Shadow lynch when he began this wagon.

Titus is my top town read because of the amount of scum hunting she did on day one - which she also carried into day two by investigating Zito. She displayed an earnest attempt to solve the game. I feel that her pushes come from a town mindset.

Papa refusing to admit that Titus was scum hunting furthered my scum read of him. Her style may not be the same that he would employ, but it

is

scumhunting. Refusing to admit that worries me.