The Thing Mafia - Game over!

[MariaR]

Oh shit, if we lynch Goatmeal today Maria gets a Vig shot

I don't now what to do with my metaphorical hands

I need to think about this at work tomorrow

Wait I do?
HELL YEAH

[Toogeloo]

I wanna try a different approach really quick.

Generation X (4) - Errantparabola, drealmerz7, Wraith, Spiffeh

---null on 3 out of the 4 votes here. null on GenX too.

Untrod Tripod (3) - Fire Assassin, Fire Assassin, Double Trouble

---UT is a town read. I had Fire as a gut town read. I don't like the DT vote here keeping UT in a close second for lynch.

McMenno (2) - McMenno, Creature

---McMenno is a town read, and not sure why he's still self voting. Creature is probably posturing.

Goatmeal (2) - Andrius, MariaR

---Andy is a townish read. Maria is a null read, albeit somewhat hostile. Goat is a null read.

drealmerz7 (2) - MagnaOfIllusion, Espeonage

---Espe is a slight scum read, I'll have to look and see why he voted here because I haven't read serious activity from his slot yet.

Espeonage (1) - Untrod Tripod

---I like this vote, too bad there isn't enough support for it.

Errantparabola (1) - Goatmeal

---No idea what's going on here.

Skybird (1) - PeregrineV

---I remember having a gut town read on PV early, lost track of his content after a bit. I didn't like Skybird's mud-slinging of McMenno.

Double Trouble (1) - SpyreX

---Null read on DT, I don't think I've even read a post by them in the early game.


In the past few pages, there has been a lot of discussion about lynching Goatmeal, yet the pressure seems lacking. Meanwhile the wagons that have the most support, I can't even recall campaigning happening for them. Some of the current votes look like they might even still be what would be a Random Vote Stage vote, like McMenno.

Someone said there are a lot of leaders in this game, yet the Vote Count doesn't seem to relay that same sentiment.

[Toogeloo]

Dinner, BBL

[SpyreX]

Dude I'll go back to esp in a heartbeat

[Double Trouble]

I wanna try a different approach really quick.

Generation X (4) - Errantparabola, drealmerz7, Wraith, Spiffeh

---null on 3 out of the 4 votes here. null on GenX too.

Untrod Tripod (3) - Fire Assassin, Fire Assassin, Double Trouble

---UT is a town read. I had Fire as a gut town read. I don't like the DT vote here keeping UT in a close second for lynch.

McMenno (2) - McMenno, Creature

---McMenno is a town read, and not sure why he's still self voting. Creature is probably posturing.

Goatmeal (2) - Andrius, MariaR

---Andy is a townish read. Maria is a null read, albeit somewhat hostile. Goat is a null read.

drealmerz7 (2) - MagnaOfIllusion, Espeonage

---Espe is a slight scum read, I'll have to look and see why he voted here because I haven't read serious activity from his slot yet.

Espeonage (1) - Untrod Tripod

---I like this vote, too bad there isn't enough support for it.

Errantparabola (1) - Goatmeal

---No idea what's going on here.

Skybird (1) - PeregrineV

---I remember having a gut town read on PV early, lost track of his content after a bit. I didn't like Skybird's mud-slinging of McMenno.

Double Trouble (1) - SpyreX

---Null read on DT, I don't think I've even read a post by them in the early game.


In the past few pages, there has been a lot of discussion about lynching Goatmeal, yet the pressure seems lacking. Meanwhile the wagons that have the most support, I can't even recall campaigning happening for them. Some of the current votes look like they might even still be what would be a Random Vote Stage vote, like McMenno.

Someone said there are a lot of leaders in this game, yet the Vote Count doesn't seem to relay that same sentiment.

We're the Diamond Sentinel slot, so yeah we didn't post in the early game thread. This is coming off as busiwork and useless garbage posting. We were ahead of you in the replace queue.

When you're 30 pages behind, missing the vote counts and major contexts, well come on man. Get it together. If you're town, you're better than this.

~Titus

[Fire Assassin]

Oh shit, if we lynch Goatmeal today Maria gets a Vig shot

I don't now what to do with my metaphorical hands

I need to think about this at work tomorrow

Wait I do?
HELL YEAH

Maria, did you finish up the people people everyone had opinions on?
I saw you comment on the people I was interested hearing from, didn't see that.

[Fire Assassin]

Oh shit, if we lynch Goatmeal today Maria gets a Vig shot

I don't now what to do with my metaphorical hands

I need to think about this at work tomorrow

Wait I do?
HELL YEAH

Maria, did you finish up the people people everyone had opinions on?
I saw you comment on the people I was interested hearing from, didn't see that.

[Wraith]

Ok, one more post.

The semantic cases aren't good. Like Math is going to likely post as they catch up, but I'd like them do that in the PT so I can help them. I do take major issue with your post here. You're seeming to imply that being wrong or having an unpopular read or a read you strongly disagree with is scummy. That's ridiculous. Your reads are fallible and just because someone has a read that's off and takes a unique approach doesn't make them scum. Ask why. Go deeper.

We'll always be a little unique, but that's just going to piss people off when you say that you're scummy or dumb for disagreeing. Try to reach consensus with people and figure out why before dismissing so handily. I know that Math is convinced of some slip (not persuasive to me), but the thread is naturally researching things and posts like this just cut things off. Unless Math is saying things that are blatantly untrue, let them go on. You are not in sole control of the game. If your reads are as right as you say, others will have to naturally carry on after you die. Stopping our investigative processes doesn't help.

~Titus

Yes, my reads are fallible, I know that. But they're really all I have to go on. And my point is that to this point in the game in my opinion Tammy has done nothing to suggest being scum save (I guess) defending drealmerz. But I can see why people might logically defend drealmerz, for the same reason I can see why people might logically defend McMenno or SkyBird (because several players have expressed opinions that one or more of these players are lynchbait).

But, at the moment, based on posts alone since we've had no flips or night action analysis or wagon analysis, I can't see any possible reason to really see Tammy as scum. And the semantic argument doesn't help.

I don't scumread players simply for disagreeing with me. There are plenty of posts of by players who have disagreed with me or even who I view as scum that I feel have been logical. But reads or statements I view as illogical will draw my annoyance.

[MariaR]

Oh shit, if we lynch Goatmeal today Maria gets a Vig shot

I don't now what to do with my metaphorical hands

I need to think about this at work tomorrow

Wait I do?
HELL YEAH

Maria, did you finish up the people people everyone had opinions on?
I saw you comment on the people I was interested hearing from, didn't see that.

It was goat right?
Yeah I did all those ^_^

[Double Trouble]

Ok, one more post.

The semantic cases aren't good. Like Math is going to likely post as they catch up, but I'd like them do that in the PT so I can help them. I do take major issue with your post here. You're seeming to imply that being wrong or having an unpopular read or a read you strongly disagree with is scummy. That's ridiculous. Your reads are fallible and just because someone has a read that's off and takes a unique approach doesn't make them scum. Ask why. Go deeper.

We'll always be a little unique, but that's just going to piss people off when you say that you're scummy or dumb for disagreeing. Try to reach consensus with people and figure out why before dismissing so handily. I know that Math is convinced of some slip (not persuasive to me), but the thread is naturally researching things and posts like this just cut things off. Unless Math is saying things that are blatantly untrue, let them go on. You are not in sole control of the game. If your reads are as right as you say, others will have to naturally carry on after you die. Stopping our investigative processes doesn't help.

~Titus

Yes, my reads are fallible, I know that. But they're really all I have to go on. And my point is that to this point in the game in my opinion Tammy has done nothing to suggest being scum save (I guess) defending drealmerz. But I can see why people might logically defend drealmerz, for the same reason I can see why people might logically defend McMenno or SkyBird (because several players have expressed opinions that one or more of these players are lynchbait).

But, at the moment, based on posts alone since we've had no flips or night action analysis or wagon analysis, I can't see any possible reason to really see Tammy as scum. And the semantic argument doesn't help.

I don't scumread players simply for disagreeing with me. There are plenty of posts of by players who have disagreed with me or even who I view as scum that I feel have been logical. But reads or statements I view as illogical will draw my annoyance.

Yeah, I get it. I don't really see Tammy as scum either. If you don't agree with the reason, pin Math down as to why and then either agree or disagree. The insults shut down communication rather than fleshing our alignment out k?

Take a step back. Mathblade is just as convinced you are that Tammy is scum. She has no flips or wagon analysis, so why not follow her reads? She thinks we're going crazy for defending Tammy and doesn't see much of any reason to ignore the slip they saw (which you call a semantic argument).

Mathblade and I both come from places where every character typed matters. I'm a lawyer and they are a computer programmer (they are genderfluid so the pronoun is they). Word choice to us reveals intent and is not at all foriegn. That is why I push on people looking to eliminate threats rather than scummy players (and is where my evolution of the RVS tell on UT is part of that). Word choice suggests intent to us.

While I think it's a read I don't agree with, I don't find it weird for Math to be pushing a semantic read. We don't deal in guts or feelings much. You'd get to this much easier if not putting Mathblade down.

~Titus

[MariaR]

Ok, one more post.

The semantic cases aren't good. Like Math is going to likely post as they catch up, but I'd like them do that in the PT so I can help them. I do take major issue with your post here. You're seeming to imply that being wrong or having an unpopular read or a read you strongly disagree with is scummy. That's ridiculous. Your reads are fallible and just because someone has a read that's off and takes a unique approach doesn't make them scum. Ask why. Go deeper.

We'll always be a little unique, but that's just going to piss people off when you say that you're scummy or dumb for disagreeing. Try to reach consensus with people and figure out why before dismissing so handily. I know that Math is convinced of some slip (not persuasive to me), but the thread is naturally researching things and posts like this just cut things off. Unless Math is saying things that are blatantly untrue, let them go on. You are not in sole control of the game. If your reads are as right as you say, others will have to naturally carry on after you die. Stopping our investigative processes doesn't help.

~Titus

Yes, my reads are fallible, I know that. But they're really all I have to go on. And my point is that to this point in the game in my opinion Tammy has done nothing to suggest being scum save (I guess) defending drealmerz. But I can see why people might logically defend drealmerz, for the same reason I can see why people might logically defend McMenno or SkyBird (because several players have expressed opinions that one or more of these players are lynchbait).

But, at the moment, based on posts alone since we've had no flips or night action analysis or wagon analysis, I can't see any possible reason to really see Tammy as scum. And the semantic argument doesn't help.

I don't scumread players simply for disagreeing with me. There are plenty of posts of by players who have disagreed with me or even who I view as scum that I feel have been logical. But reads or statements I view as illogical will draw my annoyance.

Yeah, I get it. I don't really see Tammy as scum either. If you don't agree with the reason, pin Math down as to why and then either agree or disagree. The insults shut down communication rather than fleshing our alignment out k?

Take a step back. Mathblade is just as convinced you are that Tammy is scum. She has no flips or wagon analysis, so why not follow her reads? She thinks we're going crazy for defending Tammy and doesn't see much of any reason to ignore the slip they saw (which you call a semantic argument).

Mathblade and I both come from places where every character typed matters. I'm a lawyer and they are a computer programmer (they are genderfluid so the pronoun is they). Word choice to us reveals intent and is not at all foriegn. That is why I push on people looking to eliminate threats rather than scummy players (and is where my evolution of the RVS tell on UT is part of that). Word choice suggests intent to us.

While I think it's a read I don't agree with, I don't find it weird for Math to be pushing a semantic read. We don't deal in guts or feelings much. You'd get to this much easier if not putting Mathblade down.

~Titus

No idea why but I got a lot of joy reading this.

[Tammy]

ill respond to other things tomorrow, but real quick before I fall asleep for realsees:

Math blade I think you are misunderstanding.

Spyrex said he town read ut for his give no fucks approach.

Give no fucks, no fucks given is a phrase.

I asked spryer how does he distinguish between "No fucks given" ut town and "no fucks given" ut scum.

Assume doesn't work there because its not the phrase.

I don't understand your interpretation but it can't come from understanding what I was asking, so maybe that helps.

[Fire Assassin]

Tammy, when your well rested.
Would like to hear some reads and analysis on why your reads are like that.
Thanks.

[Tammy]

I'll give reads as I give them and have them in my own time.

[MariaR]

I'll give reads as I give them and have them in my own time.

I like you

[Untrod Tripod]

OOC: I wasn't purposefully misgendering MathBlade. No offense meant.

[Double Trouble]

OOC: I wasn't purposefully misgendering MathBlade. No offense meant.

OOC: I don't think anyone was. I misgendered them in the post where I said they were a they (referred to them as she). I wish it didn't happen, but I know you mean no ill will behind any misgendering.

BIC:

What did Goatmeal elucidate and why does it make them town?

[Fire Assassin]

I'll give reads as I give them and have them in my own time.

I like you

-_-

[Double Trouble]

@Tammy It is a word choice thing:

I thought that you used "inside knowledge" to buddy Titus meaning "Given UT is scum" from a confirmed angle.
I hadn't heard that phrase so I didn't realize it was a quote.

@All going to shut up and let Titus head drive since they are back from RL issues it seems and I work full time.
About the gender stuff this is the a billionth game (exaggeration) people have messed it up. I just hope people aren't ass hard about it :/

[Double Trouble]

@Tammy It is a word choice thing:

I thought that you used "inside knowledge" to buddy Titus meaning "Given UT is scum" from a confirmed angle.
I hadn't heard that phrase so I didn't realize it was a quote.

@All going to shut up and let Titus head drive since they are back from RL issues it seems and I work full time.
About the gender stuff this is the a billionth game (exaggeration) people have messed it up. I just hope people aren't ass hard about it :/

-- Math

[Double Trouble]

Assholes* (pedit)

-- Math

[Skybird]

I'm behind and working on catching up but wanted to respond to these before I forget. (note to self top of 56)

@bird - if i was convinced you were scum I'd say so. Statistically you've got a better chance than some. Moreso, there is no downside to me blocking you. 0

So what other scum reads do you have?

Gen X – your voting pattern isn’t making a lot of sense to me. You were calling me scum in the draft and wanted the draft over so you could speedlynch me but your first vote of the game was on Yanko (now Toogeloo). When I looked at your ISO, the only mention of Yanko was in post 513 where you called one of his posts bad. Why was he your first vote? Also, you’ve pretty consistently called Yanko/Toogeloo scum but your vote isn’t on that slot and has moved around quite a bit. Why?

just because someone is our "best read" doesn't mean that we're obligated to vote them. sometimes lynches that we want are in vain, and we can't really get them and have to settle for something else.

skybird is probably town and i just really hate their posting style.

~T

If you think someone is your best read, why aren't you trying to push their lynch? Sell us on why Yanko/Toog is scum.

[drealmerz7]

1st: HYDRAS, please sign your posts, every single one of them - it's driving me nuts and I honestly don't understand how it is tolerated to play this way. I'm trying to deal with it the best I can, but, seriously, sign your fucking posts.

The last part ostensibly says that Dreal thinks the Watcher is scum and wants to put him in a Room to thwart him “clearing a partner” but that is rather pointless since the Watcher isn’t required to be in the room they watch.

@Dreal

– again why could you not explain your 4 claimed scum reads as of the time you made them?

Ohman, let me try again. Sorry for confusion. I really should be more careful when playing with strangers! I thought the ridiculousness of the example of me using the ability to do such a thing illustrated my understanding of not doing something stupid/useless/misguided or whatever, general fucking around with it sort of shit.

Everyone, please, relax. I'm not going to fuck with things with this guy. It's why I chose him. Like I said, in my evaluations of roles, he was one of the top roles that I wanted in order to keep out of the hands of Things because I recognize his potential of fuck-with-ability (seriously, I'm not fucking stupid!) I felt relief when he fell all the way to me and I was able to grab him.

Now I'm a bit frustrated with myself because I made myself lynch target from being a little "free" with people I don't know (probably only smart to do if I were VT, now that I think about it) and I don't want to lose him to potential scum (and genuinely don't want D1 mis-lynched on my first big game on MS, a lesser personal defeat than losing the role to scum, but still there in my mind.) I realize now that I'm being considered so strongly because no one is familiar with my playstyles and that I really did do a disservice to my team by not doing a better job at instilling confidence in others in my ability to play / handle the role.

I'm not against planning and coordinating (I feel I'm being mis-repped with that a bit.) I wanted to express my hesitancies with it and have a little discourse about it (Wraith never did answer my "why?" to how he treated me about that I don't think), I think there are more in the reads in relation to me about that than there are in me, but then, I don't need to read me.

I'm liking how things have been being handled for the most part so far in regards to the coordination, just understand that for me I have 0 experience with a game going like this (like I already said, the open setup & coordinating ability because of it, much less actually executing any sort of coordination.) More often than not following the mob-mentality leads to scum-influence and manipulation htat muddles things more than help things (again, in my experience), so I am wary - that should be understandable I think.

Personal comfort = scum-hunt and let chips fall where they fall in regards to all the role+room stuff, trust who I trust on reports of actions and all of that stuff and treat it as a tenuous flux of reads and do my best for my team as I normally do (which a majority of which will not be deniable anyway because of the open-ness of everything), but that doesn't mean I'm not going to be a team player and value my personal comfort over the well-being of the group. Not at all.

I feel like I was barely even given a chance to get comfortable with the coordination idea (and was a little put of at some people's unwillingness to just be real with me about it instead of just treat/paint me as scum - though, just as with everything, it's great to try and generate reads from) and that I have been simply brute-forced into it where I would have ideally liked more reason being talked about it with me. Instinct says doing it like this allows scum to simply hide within the ranks of "obeying" but then figure out ways to exploit otherwise and there will be no way to tell. It's okay though, I got what I needed for comfort at this point. Not 100% comfort or anything, but enough to go along, and definitely enough to drop it as a subject (if others are!)

I am a good team player, I think, and will do what is decided, as a group, that I should do, if anything, of course. Just realize that I have beef because I don't even feel like I was given a chance to say that sort of thing within the space and time that I was trying to discuss my concerns about it all before it started getting hairy.

As for the scum-reads. First of all, I'm not super-great at explaining my reads a lot of the time. A lot of it is tone and gut stuff that I have a harder time articulating than I'd like. I am really good at reading people's motivations, intentions, interactions between/among the group, general behaviors, and compiling a picture of the dynamics of it all in my head and seeing the potentialities of what it could mean if if if if if (I almost went into behaviorism) - not so great at showing it all to others.

At the time I did that list I think it was mostly 2 things (memory a bit hazy now on it though honestly.) 1.) I didn't have time to even try to articulate it, and 2.) I was aware that I should probably go back and ISO first anyway, but still felt it might be useful (if only for myself) to have out there before I went back and perhaps changed my reads around all together (to see how I was positioned after the first go-through vs. a re-read.)

Maybe there is confusion also in what I mean by "draft list" - I meant a preferred order list for you. I have all 21 characters/roles listed in my prefered order of selection (which I'm not sharing but will share after if anyone cares)

I would like to see this now, since it is after.

sure thing! why do you want it? do you have anything similar you could share?

Bennings
Norris
Halverson
Lars
Lloyd
MacReady
Carter
Colin
Jameson
Wolner
Fuchs
Finch
Dr. Blair
Palmer
Peder
Garry
Dr. Copper
Childs
Nauls
Windows
Clark

Your phone posting issue is just a nitpick and you'll have to get over that.

They hinder gameplay often. It's more than a nitpick, but now is not the time to get into it. They're not nearly as horrible as hyrdae seem to be at least.

..and now one head is defending another head's posts and not even signing who they are. GRAAAHHHHHHH! *shakes it off* *deep breath*

I assume that if UT dies, his alignment flips still, right? What use is a Scum Treestump other than to troll the game after they die?

UT is probably my biggest town read if the above is correct.

just to deny it to town?

[Toogeloo]

When you're 30 pages behind, missing the vote counts and major contexts, well come on man. Get it together. If you're town, you're better than this.

I wanna know why lead wagons aren't being discussed, and trash wagons are being touted as "the thing" yet no one is supporting them. I also was told earlier that this is a town full of leaders, yet I'm not seeing it. That was the point of my post. Also, I've come to the conclusion there isn't much to gain from trying to read through the early game, especially the draft period. If there was no enforcement for activity, then scum would have no reason to work themselves into it unless forced, which would just as easily be town being forced to respond to discussion. Only a handful of roles seemed to even garner discussion, and even then it was pointless speculation and gas lighting as to whether or not it's scum motivated or town motivated to take those roles.

As for my current analysis, the fact that I have read the last dozen or so pages and have yet to see why GenX is the lead wagon or any push to keep them there is what concerns me the most. I will not vote Untrod Tripod as he's probably my biggest town read currently, and I see no reason waste my time with the GenX wagon when it doesn't seem serious enough in the first place. I want to know why that is though. Also, what's your opinion of me calling you opportunistic at the fact that you have my town read in second place on the backs of a double voter?

Unvote
Vote: Espeonage

[Toogeloo]

just to deny it to town?

No scum team would take a treestump to deny it to town. Vigilante, Doctor, Watcher, Cop, yes, absofuckinglutely... Treestump, not a chance in hell.