Mini 1851 : Order of the Stick Mafia - Epilogue

[Infinity 324]

^ I agree

[Kagami]

VOTE: wraith

[Kagami]

I'd like to hear a bit more about your Tammy, nacho, and kraska reads before I reconsider that^

[Wraith]

I'd like to hear a bit more about your Tammy, nacho, and kraska reads before I reconsider that^

Not much more to say on that front.

Nacho - Competent, insightful, and even-handed. We're thinking along the same lines but Nacho is much better at expressing it. He's made plenty of observations that have influenced my thinking

Kraska - Nacho-lite. Has had a knack for picking up on what's motivating my posts when Wisdom has attacked them. I disagree with several of her reads but to each their own.

Tammy - Has made some good contributions thus far. But as said, Tammy seems like the type of player that's hard to evaluate for certain without some flips because making good contributions seems effortless to her.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: wraith

Once more you avoid answering to me

[Infinity 324]

Does anyone know if farside does pre-flip associatives a lot as town?

[Wraith]

Generally, the vibe I’ve been getting from Wisdom all game is that he wants the approval of other players and actively seeks it out rather than building an actual case against his scumreads, and I think that’s scummy

you have the right vibe, you just described my playstyle. I work with people, I don't make cases.

Well I don't have meta on you, and give meta little weight in general anyways. Personally I don't think that's a townie way of doing things. There's a difference between agreeing with other players and dedicating your efforts toward winning their approval - I view the latter as a scummy playstyle. It's the difference between saying "This is what I believe and I'm sticking to it" and saying "This is what I believe. Am I right, guys?"

Townies shouldn't be concerned with whether other players agree with them unless it gets to the point where you're so isolated you

should

be questioning your perception of the game. Scum are preoccupied with blending in with the prevailing opinion.

[Wraith]

• Wisdom’s #343 is just strange. He tries to draw me to the shadow wagon in #405, so I read shadow’s ISO and find a couple things I don’t like but not very much. But then Wisdom says my post on that ISO is odd because it feels like I was trying to “force a scumread.” Did he want me to just vote for shadow without a read at all?

I expected you to give a solid stance on him but you waffled - started with weak reasons with which to scumread him and it appeared like you were going to force a scumread on him - but then you went "eh I like this post so I don't see why I should vote him"
Doesn't say much, you could still be buddies, but I found it notable

He has like 9 posts in total. I mean...not much to get from it.

[Wraith]

Why?

And why am I null instead of a scumread when you said multiple times you think I'm scummy?

Because I question the motive a player might have to get momentum on a wagon based on pure RVS. I don't see much reason for it.

First of all, you're not "null," you're "murky," which I'd tried to signify by putting you at the bottom of the "neutral/murky" tier.

Why not soft scumread? Because there's enough doubt in my mind that you could simply be misguided town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote Count 1.6

- as of post 458

Wraith (5) - Nachomamma8, farside22, Infinity 324, Kagami, Wisdom
Wisdom (2) - SirCakez, Wraith
shaddowez (1) - Bulbazak
PeregrineV (1) - shaddowez
Nachomamma8 (1) - Tammy
Kagami (1) - kraska77
kraska77 (1) - Leonshade
SirCakez (1) - PeregrineV

Not Voting (0) - None

The Current deadline is November 28 at 9am EST in (expired on 2016-11-28 09:00:00)

With 13 alive - 7 are required to lynch.

Activity Check

- All good currently.

V/LA List

-
Leonshade is V/LA until November 13th.
shaddowez is V/LA until November 14th.
PeregrineV is V/LA until November 14th

[Infinity 324]

Why?

And why am I null instead of a scumread when you said multiple times you think I'm scummy?

Because I question the motive a player might have to get momentum on a wagon based on pure RVS. I don't see much reason for it.

First of all, you're not "null," you're "murky," which I'd tried to signify by putting you at the bottom of the "neutral/murky" tier.

Why not soft scumread? Because there's enough doubt in my mind that you could simply be misguided town.

Actual wagons tend to get discussion going a lot quicker than vanity wagons.

I love how you're still not addressing my responses in 277.

[Wisdom]

Does anyone know if farside does pre-flip associatives a lot as town?

yeah, she does. also she tunnels easily. I'm confident we're seeing her town game here.

[Infinity 324]

I mean 227

[Wisdom]

He has like 9 posts in total. I mean...not much to get from it.

sure? that's irrelevant to my point

[Wraith]

He has like 9 posts in total. I mean...not much to get from it.

sure? that's irrelevant to my point

It's not irrelevant. I don't know how you expected a solid read based off a 9-post ISO.

It's like you're manufacturing a reason to scumread me. "I expected a strong stance from Wraith on a player with 9 total posts. He didn't produce a strong stance, therefore, he's waffling. Potentially on a scumbuddy." That makes it look like you asking me for the read in the first place look entirely disingenuous.

[Wraith]

Hell, at the time you asking me to join that wagon felt like a trap. I bet if I'd just said "sure k" you'd have jumped on me for sheeping you on a counterwagon.

[Wisdom]

9 posts are plenty for a solid read, but that's not the point here

I am not scumreading you for being unable to produce a solid read; I am noting how you waffled on a player because it will be useful in case you flip scum

[Wisdom]

also no I just wanted to see if you'd vote him, if you'd try to defend him, etc for the same reason. No traps.

Though the fact you see it as a trap means you're worried about how people read your actions - as town I believe you wouldn't care about such "traps", no?

[Wraith]

9 posts are plenty for a solid read, but that's not the point here

I am not scumreading you for being unable to produce a solid read; I am noting how you waffled on a player because it will be useful in case you flip scum

And how useful will it be when I flip town?

[Wraith]

also no I just wanted to see if you'd vote him, if you'd try to defend him, etc for the same reason. No traps.

Though the fact you see it as a trap means you're worried about how people read your actions - as town I believe you wouldn't care about such "traps", no?

That is literally a trap.

You asked me to vote for shadow to gauge my reaction.

I read his ISO and refused to. You call it waffling.

I can't possibly believe you'd have not called it scummy if I'd straight up voted for him on flimsy premises.

[Wisdom]

it wont be. Is there a point to that?

pedit: ill take that as a yes

[Infinity 324]

So re the first point, you're saying that I as scum, recognized the obvious joke yet tried to push it when I knew the push would fall apart because ???

And the only reason I posted so much about my comment wrt farside is because kagami questioned me on it.

But I don't think this is a good vote anymore. I'm getting slight townvibes from wraith

VOTE: wisdom

I don't like how much fluff this guy has

@wraith

[Wraith]

So re the first point, you're saying that I as scum, recognized the obvious joke yet tried to push it when I knew the push would fall apart because ???

And the only reason I posted so much about my comment wrt farside is because kagami questioned me on it.

But I don't think this is a good vote anymore. I'm getting slight townvibes from wraith

VOTE: wisdom

I don't like how much fluff this guy has

@wraith

Yeah, I took it under advisement. It adds to the doubt that you're misguided town rather than scum. Since I've now got a hard scumread on Wisdom I think that's the more likely of the two.

[farside22]

Sorry farside you're just wrong here. I'm allowed to have an opinion that's different from yours, and you're pretending like you're seen my towngame to be able to judge what I would think? I think wraith is attempting to scumhunt now. I don't think he was before. I think his current play would be unusual coming from scum and rather sloppy for scum play. I think it would be similarly odd coming from town which is why he's null. I'm sitting here having that opinion about wraith's play, and you're sitting here saying that I couldn't possibly have that opinion. So you do you I guess, but it's kind of difficult to work with you when you're in this tunnel state.

Also I never voted shaddow so ???

• Again I immediately have a problem with Infinity’s nitpicking re: Wisdom early. I ignored it the first time but every time I re-read it I like it less
• Like I said #221, Infinity in #51 acts strangely when he claims he doesn’t think farside’s vote on him is scummy and won’t argue about it when he spent much of the second page arguing about it

Ok, so you say things you dislike about me, then I respond to them in 227, then you state them again without addressing my responses

while referencing the post my responses are in.

This shit pisses me off.

• Still don’t like that Infinity admits he put his RVS on Nacho because there was an RVS wagon forming there

Why?

And why am I null instead of a scumread when you said multiple times you think I'm scummy?

• I have a pretty strong early townread on Nacho and that hasn’t changed
• Posts like Nacho’s #98 are posts I especially like, because they’re posts that follow the same line of thinking as me, and since I’m town, and tend to assume people who following the same lines of thinking as town!me are also town. That may seem strange regarding this particular post, since it’s criticizing one of my own posts, but in hindsight I do see how dumb that particular post of mine was and I’ve come to the same conclusion
• Yeah, I should’ve waited for SirCakez to make his own case re: his vote on Wisdom in #120. I was overeager to find something to get a scumread on (I really hate D1 and RVS) and as a result I think I blew an opportunity to get a more accurate early gauge on SirCakez. And again this ties into my strong townread on Nacho because he calls me out on it in #143
• Again Nacho #229 saying what I’m thinking

So much appeasing and buddying

Seriously, you do this shit and call me out for buddying when I say I have townvibes from you?

As much as I dislike about this wraith post, the fake-feeling appeasing and buddying of nacho is the only thing that's scummy. But that's worth a vote

VOTE: wraith

That's some quick turn around there.

VOTE: infintyVOTE:

I submit anyone to read a current game I played with infinity called poker mafia.
This is 100% his scum game.
He even saw me make association that game like crazy.

[farside22]

VOTE: infinity