Mini 1853: Trial of the Evoker [Game Over]

[Fire Assassin]

Why are you talking with such a serious and formal tone with me Fire?


Why are you talking with such a serious and formal tone with me Fire?

Because I am getting serious and I am formal.
I don't understand the purpose of this?

Are you trying to see why I am acting differently than normal?

[Mega Frozen]

Town: Not Chara, Sondam
Lean Town: BATORU
Null: Anyone Not Mentioned
Lean Scum: Nosferatu, Pisskop, Mega Frozen

Why is sondam town
Why BATORU is lean Town
why pisskop is lean scum
why am I lean scum

I know you said you won't be able to pinpoint it. I will keep asking till you gain the ability to pinpoint it or drop it.

#Frozen

[Dunnstral]

Do you have a counter opinion on that or you just don't think thats true?

no

Dunnstral, show me your colors.

green

[Dunnstral]

why am I null

[Mega Frozen]

Why are you talking with such a serious and formal tone with me Fire?


Why are you talking with such a serious and formal tone with me Fire?

Because I am getting serious and I am formal.
I don't understand the purpose of this?

Are you trying to see why I am acting differently than normal?

I'm trying to get into your head.

I feel your trying to distance yourself from me and I don't like that

#Frozen

[Not Chara]

Why are you talking with such a serious and formal tone with me Fire?

@NC what about him being able to explain his reasons for town reading you make him probably town? How is that resolved your previous concerns about reads on me and Nosfeartu?

#Frozen

it isn't just me, it's also the way he explained his reads on you two. i don't take issue with having weaker reads at this stage, and the way he tied that into his read on me doesn't feel like scum. i often see what appear to be misunderstandings as town, and point them out, so i liked that Fire was acknowledging misunderstandings as a reason for conflict, instead of just scummy behaviour.
and my concerns weren't as deep as i thought, i realized.

Frozen: have you played with him as scum? is he more formal, then? otherwise, i'm not sure why you'd bring this up.

[Mega Frozen]

it isn't just me, it's also the way he explained his reads on you two. i don't take issue with having weaker reads at this stage, and the way he tied that into his read on me doesn't feel like scum. i often see what appear to be misunderstandings as town, and point them out, so i liked that Fire was acknowledging misunderstandings as a reason for conflict, instead of just scummy behaviour.
and my concerns weren't as deep as i thought, i realized.

no ones concern is so deep so early. thats normal. what about that makes him probably town?

I brought it up to make him talk to me. I just said it.

#Frozen

[Mega Frozen]

and I saw his scumgame before yeah.

we played so many games together and I modded his games multiple times - and he modded my games multiple times.

how is that relevant data?

#Frozen

[Fire Assassin]

why am I null

Do town things.

Why are you talking with such a serious and formal tone with me Fire?


Why are you talking with such a serious and formal tone with me Fire?

Because I am getting serious and I am formal.
I don't understand the purpose of this?

Are you trying to see why I am acting differently than normal?

I'm trying to get into your head.

I feel your trying to distance yourself from me and I don't like that

#Frozen

Do you mean like distancing scum do from teammates or just not interacting?
I am guessing the first since I am interacting with you.
I don't see why a tone or formality would be a issue with you beyond you never playing with this style of me.

Town: Not Chara, Sondam
Lean Town: BATORU
Null: Anyone Not Mentioned
Lean Scum: Nosferatu, Pisskop, Mega Frozen

Why is sondam town
Why BATORU is lean Town
why pisskop is lean scum
why am I lean scum

I know you said you won't be able to pinpoint it. I will keep asking till you gain the ability to pinpoint it or drop it.

#Frozen

Ill go into these more later but ill give you my surface ideas.
Sondam seems like a user (or hydra in this case) who will troll hard as town but take the game serious as scum.
BATORU from the interactions between us and I can get their views a bit (this sounds very vague I know, but I had good feelings reading our interactions and them interacting with others)
Pisskop hasn't given me an aggressive pushing feeling from him and he seems distant (though the game is pretty early).

[Not Chara]

i suppose. i mean, you've been discussing with him on other topics as well.

i don't know how else to explain about Fire. the post you quoted has my thoughts. the problems i had weren't so much problems, i understand his stance, and i liked his responses. there isn't anything else for me to take issue with.
can you give me reads on Sondam and Dunnstral?

pedit: because him acting formal is either alignment indicative and important, or not alignment indicative and unimportant. because you asked, i figured you thought it might be alignment indicative. and if you knew his scumgame, you would know if the formality was something to be wary of, or not.

[Mega Frozen]

Do you mean like distancing scum do from teammates or just not interacting?
I am guessing the first since I am interacting with you.
I don't see why a tone or formality would be a issue with you beyond you never playing with this style of me.

A tone change or formallity makes it like your cold and you don't enjoy the current interaction. From a social point of view it hints to the other person to drop the converstaion and if it was anyone else I guess they would without thinking about this.

Its something happenes unintentionally. I just want to know what is the reason. Is this somehow a way you want to play the whole game or was it occasionally with me.

What is your meta reason for sondom taking game siriously as scum? i never saw that.

What is an aggressive pushing feeling? If its early how is that a concern enough to put him in scum lean? [make no mistake. I do have the similar feeling about pisskop as he is playing more like his cowboy bebop scum thingi so far. I just want to understand how your judging stuff.]

and why you dodged about talking about me?

#Frozen

[Mega Frozen]

pedit: because him acting formal is either alignment indicative and important, or not alignment indicative and unimportant. because you asked, i figured you thought it might be alignment indicative. and if you knew his scumgame, you would know if the formality was something to be wary of, or not.

Everything is alignment indicative and important. Their just in different degrees of importance. I might use anything to make people talk - and to compare that with their previous arguments to test the validity and agenda.

Formality is new for him and alarming so I brought it up.

#Frozen

[Dunnstral]

Do town things.

After you good sir

[Dunnstral]

actually I'm kind of townreading you



maybe I will

ok, I'm activating my second form now

[Prism]

@Prism what? I was talking about your attaking hydra thingi - how is my reasoning courteous but you won't buy it ... and thats how I play to question everything I see

First, this says nothing about the first part of my statement which is the bigger reason behind my vote:

#185 is some pretty accusatory language putting something in my mouth

To elaborate on why this is scummy to me, you're priding yourself on asking questions to "see into our minds" but my interpretation of your #185 is very different. If I had discouraged people from pushing Dunn/iron, that would be very scummy indeed and you were quick to jump on this-but that simply never happened. It appears you weren't really keeping track of my statements and were jumping ahead to a "Gotcha!" moment. Honest mistake? Possibly. But I see no reason for me to

assume

that is the case.

Second, about the hydra questioning, you say "how is my reasoning courteous but you won't buy it." Why should the fact that it's nice mean I believe you? Your explanation being courteous and being legitimate are two separate things. Questioning everything is a valid playstyle-but if I don't see the investigative intent behind it, why should I assume it's town? I do not consider this a convincing reason to vote you, the first part is the big reason. I'm only responding to it due to your question.

I can ask questions all day. That fact alone will never tell you what my role PM says. The fact that you do the same isn't going to tell me anything about yours. The

content

of those questions, on the other hand, are very valuable.

unless you explain why is that scummy your argument is pure shit.

I think its quality is independent of whether or not I explain it. If you want to replace "pure shit" with "unclear" or "unvoiced" that would probably be more appropriate.

[Mega Frozen]

I didn't understand it and I didn't put anything in your mouth?

and yes I felt your discourageing people from that by saying their both nai and it shouldn't be followed. thats why I asked about it from you in first place

and I think I don't understand english here. what is courteous exactly? I interpreted it as somthing that you judge true not nice

I know how to scumhuant thank you ; you don't need to start teaching me. what about me asking questions is scummy?

I never insulted you in any manner stop taking offended mantle. I insulted your scumread on my play style. Idea's are insultable. and no its not just unclear. its pure shit.

#Frozen

[Mega Frozen]

Did you or did you not claim both what has been done about Dunn and Iron were NAI to explain why your not going to follow the formed wagons/arguements against them or not?

How was my question putting something in your mouth?

#Frozen

[Mega Frozen]

I can ask questions all day. That fact alone will never tell you what my role PM says. The fact that you do the same isn't going to tell me anything about yours. The content of those questions, on the other hand, are very valuable.

In another note : Is there any way (I mean beside some night actions and stuff- by actual scumhunting) to learn someone else role pm?

My questions are so contentful. You might fail to see that and I don't care. Thats what make conversations and give me reliable reads. The content of those questions are very valuable, I agree. mainly for me.

lets talk about the content of my questions. I was trying to lead converstaion in manners I value to poke people to talk and to get enough data for comparing stuff and huant scummy agendas.

what about which question of me had a scummy content and whats the meaning of that?

[Frozen Angel]

ego from my main

I need it to keep up with game - sorry nahdia

[Prism]

I didn't understand it and I didn't put anything in your mouth?

and yes I felt your discourageing people from that by saying their both nai and it shouldn't be followed. thats why I asked about it from you in first place

Did you or did you not claim both what has been done about Dunn and Iron were NAI to explain why your not going to follow the formed wagons/arguements against them or not?

How was my question putting something in your mouth?

This is exactly what I am talking about. This is not an accurate portrayal at all of my post. What you said was a big misinterpretation of my post at best. Here it is quoted again:

I don't think either Dunn or Iron's claims are particularly town. They're a balance factor that make sense as starting spells for either alignment, and there are real incentives to immediately claim them as mafia.

This is in response to a townread given on the basis of their claim. I wasn't discouraging people from questioning them further like you were suggesting-I was discouraging people from townreading them based off their claim alone. If anything I was encouraging skepticism. It suggests you weren't (and still aren't)

actually

keeping track of my thoughts or trying to see into my mind like you claim. Presumably, if you were trying to understand my thought process, you would have actually taken note of what I said. How you described it in #185 and now is completely inaccurate.

and I think I don't understand english here. what is courteous exactly? I interpreted it as somthing that you judge true not nice

Polite is the closest synonym.

I know how to scumhuant thank you ; you don't need to start teaching me. what about me asking questions is scummy?

I'm trying to explain my thought process to you. You know I'm trying to explain it to you. Asking like I'm avoiding the answer is really redundant.

I never insulted you in any manner stop taking offended mantle. I insulted your scumread on my play style. Idea's are insultable. and no its not just unclear. its pure shit.

You can insult my argument all you want, but as I said, you can't judge it accurately before you have it explained to you. If no one explained the Theory of Relativity to you, would it be pure shit as well?

Trying to understand someone else's argument while calling it pure shit-without ever hearing it-is not trying to understand someone's argument. It's assuming they're wrong from the start.

P-Edit: I have responded to all of your #267 in full within the post itself. You are acting like I am taking issue with scumhunting in general, or with asking questions. I have made it clear that this is not my argument. I, again, do not think

that question

had

real

intent to investigate my alignment.

[Prism]

You're taking this as an attack on your playstyle, which it

is not.

It is questioning why you, as someone who is trying to "get into the minds of others" and asking questions to "draw it out" did not take note of what my post said. Your account of my post was that I was discouraging questioning Dunn/iron, and would be very scummy indeed if it were true. Yet, it never happened. In truth I did the opposite. This seems contradictory to me. Are you really trying to get into my mind if you didn't even try to understand my statement to begin with, or are you just looking for a reason to push a lynch?

[Mega Frozen]

See you made two points that I put something in your mouth and that I'm asking too much questions.

For first I guess I understand your concern and I think the reason is that I confused you to someone else who made a point about Iron as well and I intrepreted it like that ... I need to reread stuff

how is an answer poilte though? I'm confused

for second "that I called this pure shit" and I haven't tried to understand you on it as its clear and still "pure shit" as thats my playstyle to question people and thats how I scum hunt.

I guess I don't understand you at all and its a language barrier atm. Let me try to reread the whole stuff to understad

#Frozen

[Mega Frozen]

You're taking this as an attack on your playstyle, which it

is not.

It is questioning why you, as someone who is trying to "get into the minds of others" and asking questions to "draw it out" did not take note of what my post said. Your account of my post was that I was discouraging questioning Dunn/iron, and would be very scummy indeed if it were true. Yet, it never happened. In truth I did the opposite. This seems contradictory to me. Are you really trying to get into my mind if you didn't even try to understand my statement to begin with, or are you just looking for a reason to push a lynch?

yeah I guess I misunderstood.

Let me reread the whole thing please

[Mega Frozen]

I don't think either Dunn or Iron's claims are particularly town. They're a balance factor that make sense as starting spells for either alignment, and there are real incentives to immediately claim them as mafia. Of all the players who have posted so far, I like, in a purely mafia-related sense, Sondam and BTD6. The person I like the least is Wisdom so

see that was what you wrote

I asked the following question:

why is that though? arguably yeah both claims are NAI. Their still slots in game. whats your impression on the way their playing?

You answered:

I don't have X-Ray meta vision. My impression is that the way they've played thus far is null. Is this the objective case? No. Is this the subjective case? Certainly.

BATORU voted me before hand for not trying as much as I should or something - which implied he beleives me pushing Iron is not ok. Under impression people are thinking about me like that and are clearing Iron and Dunn for spell claiming (some expressed this multiple times) I mistakingly assumed your one of those people (cuase I had in mind you didn't vote in them after calling their spell thingi NAI - which is accurate detail ) and you called them null. so I asked this to make sure about your stance :

I don't have X-Ray meta vision. My impression is that the way they've played thus far is null. Is this the objective case? No. Is this the subjective case? Certainly.

yeah

But why is pushing them to see what they will do afterward to sort them is an invalid tactic to you?

#Frozen

which was based on wrong assumptions.

If thats your whole argument about how my questions are bad then your whole argument saying how my questions are bad, is not "pure shit" as well. I interpreted that your pushing me for two reasons - that I made that point and I'm questioning too much and I was treating the second one sepratly.

#White

[Mega Frozen]

You can insult my argument all you want, but as I said, you can't judge it accurately before you have it explained to you. If no one explained the Theory of Relativity to you, would it be pure shit as well?

Trying to understand someone else's argument while calling it pure shit-without ever hearing it-is not trying to understand someone's argument. It's assuming they're wrong from the start.

Oh and regarding this

I KNOW your wrong from the start so your point won't apply here. I'm trying to understand your argument and concerns to resolve them not to see if its correct or not

#Frozen