Micro 661 | Scumteam UnPick - Pressure Done

[Creature]

Votecount 1.2

Votecount 1.2

[2] Jaack - ZZZX, Secret Agent Jin
[2] ArcAngel9 - Dunhallym, Tenshii
[1] Gamma Emerald - ProHawk
[1] Secret Agent Jin - Jaack
[0] Tenshii
[1] ProHawk - Gamma Emerald
[0] Dunhallym
[0] ZZZX

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: ArcAngel9

8 players are alive and 5 votes is needed to reach majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-12-03 16:00:00)

[ArcAngel9]

And for this you think Jin & I are scum? this looks like you're building a case over nothing.

I don't see how you got this though.

VOTE: ArcAngel9

I think the chart is just a distraction from actual scumhunting and brings a false sense of progression of the game. Like I still think we're in an RVS-esque state with not alot of information, especially considering that a large majority of the game so far was setup/strategy discussion.

I think i got confused reading when Dun mentioned that one of us being scum. I interpret it as that he was twisting a case among us over our discussion about your opening post and accusing both of us being scum. I just re-read it and understood i didn't read it correctly.

I ll have to re-read his post again.

[Gamma Emerald]

Jaack is pushing SAJ over NAI stuff.
VOTE: Jaack

[Jaack]

Calling your self vote a joke in 12 looks like you're walking back to me.

And the fact that you kept your self vote doesn't do you any favors.

What else would it be if not a joke? Was the other votes against the host not jokes? I kept my self vote because it wasnt hurting anything and at the time i didnt have a better place to put the vote.

There is literally always a better place to put your vote than on yourself. If you are town, then you are literally voting against your lynch condition. There might be occasions where it's okay to self vote as scum, but literally never as town unless there are specific setup shenanigans, which don't exist in this game. You may have just been misguided town, but that doesn't mean I'm going to let something blatantly anti-town happen with addressing it.

And while RVS might be a relatively less serious time, even joke votes provide a small amount of info and scum can be caught based on how they act when they don't think people are scouring over their posts. A self vote denies town a small amount if info and fails to force interactions with anyone.

I also don't like how your first respone to me voting you is to vote me right back, considering you had ostensibly been townreading me immediately prior (80).

[Secret Agent Jin]

You are getting all of that off of a joke vote that i placed "so i can put the game on my list"? You either have amazing superhuman reading skills or you are making things up out of nothing. I said i didnt scumread you (null to town) and the actual read was on the null side since we dont have much info to go off of. The minute you voted me for a NAI joke vote i knew something was off.

[Tenshii]

You are getting all of that off of a joke vote that i placed "so i can put the game on my list"?

You either have amazing superhuman reading skills or you are making things up out of nothing.

VOTE: Secret Agent Jin

Wrt the bold, the former wouldn't be considered by town because they know they're town. Town would just jump to the conclusion of the latter.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I know sarcasm is hard to express without voice or visual clues but i assure you that it was sarcasm when i wrote that he must have superhuman reading skills. Its obvious that he is fabricating things based on his biased view toward what is an RVS vote. How is my vote against myself AI? How does anyone look at Zaack's "case" against me prove anything i did was scum? If i gain enough votes today and get lynched please take my town flip as a reason to lynch Zaack.

[Secret Agent Jin]

How does anyone look at Zaack's "case" against me and say it prove anything i did was scum?

EBWOP

[Dunhallym]

I probably won't have time for much today.
@ZZZX
Hint:of you read my previous posts you will know how I feel about your idea.

@Jin
what you said on Jack was more than a null read. See bold below.

I need Jaack to be in all my games from now on. Anyways, say those three people (myself included) are lynched, that leaves three groups which have your name in one of them.

IF you are scum then you are doing a good job of playing it out in public but i am convinced that you arent and that to me leaves only two groups.

Also, from my PoV it is easy to check off my name across the board which A) Still leaves the same amount of possibilities but i dont die and B) Saves a day lynch which we can use on someone else. I understand that it isn't going to happen as it doesnt help anything if my alignment is assumed and not public knowledge but it stops a mislynch. As far as i know there could be a scum within the other two proposed lynches but if i am lynched first then we start off with a mislynch D1.

IF you are scum then you are doing a good job of playing it out in public but i am convinced that you arent and that to me leaves only two groups.

Why?

Why am i convinced he is town?

I am basing that off of myself. If i was scum i wouldnt put myself out in public by making a chart and actively calculating the possible scumteams, i would let someone else make the chart and put themselves out there.

If he is scum then he is doing an oscar worthy portrayal of a town member.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Right but i worded it that way because i dont think something would ask me why i think he is a null read. Again, if someone is convinced i am scummy or a good enough place to put a vote then i will say that they are welcome to but it would be both a mislynch and a horrible choice. I have come to understand that i, in some ways, come off as scummy since i deal with a high volume of attention. All i can say for now is that either town or scum i tend to play this game a bit slimy/scummy. I havent done anything that is AI of scum and you certainly wont find any scumslips since i have to be scum to slip in that direction.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I have come to understand that i, in some ways, come off as scummy since i deal with a high volume of attention.

Let me elaborate on this sentence i said before anyone takes it wrong. I meant that from the first game i had ever played of mafia/werewolf, i have noticed that people show me a lot of (mostly bad) attention for my gameplay. Over the years, that has made me aware that i play a pretty scummy game no matter my alignment, hence the warning in the previous post.

[Jaack]

I know sarcasm is hard to express without voice or visual clues but i assure you that it was sarcasm when i wrote that he must have superhuman reading skills. Its obvious that he is fabricating things based on his biased view toward what is an RVS vote. How is my vote against myself AI? How does anyone look at Zaack's "case" against me prove anything i did was scum? If i gain enough votes today and get lynched please take my town flip as a reason to lynch Zaack.

Well first of all, my name begins with a J. I'm normally not a stickler for this type of stuff but I'm going to stop the misspelling now when I have the chance before the second a gets dropped which will really push my buttons.

Moving along to game related stuff, you're acting like I've condemned you as obvscum, when I literally said you were a good place to start when I voted you. I voted you because of my lynchpool for the day, Dunhallym looks reasonably town and between you and ArcAngel, your RVS looked worse to me. I'll fully admit that my initial reasons for voting you weren't much, but your reaction to a single vote (well now two) has been over the top panicky for the level of pressure I put you under.

That being said, you continue to bury yourself with posts like these:

Let me elaborate on this sentence i said before anyone takes it wrong. I meant that from the first game i had ever played of mafia/werewolf, i have noticed that people show me a lot of (mostly bad) attention for my gameplay. Over the years, that has made me aware that i play a pretty scummy game no matter my alignment, hence the warning in the previous post.

Now I can understand people who naturally look kind of scummy, which is to say that they often get scumread as town. But if you are self-aware in such a way, you should be used to town voting you. But your immediate response was to hardscumread me, right after you had expressed a reasonably hard townread of me (Don't even try to weasel your way out of that. You said you were convinced I wasn't scum. That's not a null read). This just doesn't add up. I feel like if you were town, the immediate response would have been to try to reason with me. But it was to vote me and act like I'm ramrodding you're lynch through.

[ProHawk]

Sorry guys been busy getting ready for festivities! Not caught up yet but should post tonight hopefully

[Secret Agent Jin]

You can feel whatever way you want

Z

Jaack but it doesn't change my alignment. You may feel that a townie should act one way when voted on but i tend to react the way i did. I cant reason with you as there is no way to prove my alignment this early on and with little information from posts. If you bring new AI information to the table i will continue with you until then I am done with this back and forth.

[Jaack]

You can feel whatever way you want

Z

Jaack but it doesn't change my alignment. You may feel that a townie should act one way when voted on but i tend to react the way i did. I cant reason with you as there is no way to prove my alignment this early on and with little information from posts. If you bring new AI information to the table i will continue with you until then I am done with this back and forth.

You're free to not respond to me but just saying that my observations are not indicitive of alignment does not make them so. I think your reaction to my pressure makes more sense if you are scum and your continued attempts to brush me off do nothing to change that opinion.

Furthermore you now purport to have a scumread on me but are declining to try and decifer me any further? You say there is too little information for me to scumread you but you are making no effort to improve the situation.

[Dunhallym]

I know we still have plenty of time in the day but at the moment I feel that the only players in this game are Jaack, SAJ and me with the others picking their nose here and there.
So

to all of you

:
What do you think of Jaack’s plan and why? What are your views on the exchanges between Jaack and SAJ and between Arc and me?

@Arc

: once again I ask you: you are not a newb, and your initial comment to Jin suggested you had signed for this game with understanding of its specific mechanics. Yet you expressed confusion at the chart. Had you not thought of what the specific game design implied? Are you still confused and about what?

@Jin

: I agree with Jaack. His initial point was weak but you have to start somewhere. Your reaction was not that good but most of all I’m not buying your answer to me about your reversal on Jaack. What you expressed was a strong town read, not a weak town lean.

@Jaack

: what do you think of Arc? I’d also like your opinion on ZZZX.

@Prohawk

: see above question about Tenshii.

@ZZZX

: I previously awarded you town points but on the reread you don’t deserve them. You mentioned earlier that you had a plan but wanted to wait for the last pairs of unpick. What was this plan? You now say that we should scumhunt and use the chart as last resort yet you have not moved from your RVS vote and just made a quick non comital post that could pass as a half-assed justification to leave your vote on Jaack.

No further comment for Gamma or Tenshii yet, just the common questions and I’d like to hear more from you.

[ArcAngel9]

@Arc: once again I ask you: you are not a newb, and your initial comment to Jin suggested you had signed for this game with understanding of its specific mechanics. Yet you expressed confusion at the chart. Had you not thought of what the specific game design implied? Are you still confused and about what?

I am definitely not a newbie but I have never played this setup, Yes I read the instructions and i understand the game rules clear. But the matrix is not related to game setup. It's a player interpretation to identify the scum I was curious to know how that works. As I am maths student, I wanted to know what logic Jack was using to make that matrix.

So what is the confusion?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Fine, my vote against Jaack was 100% a reaction to his vote against me. I dont agree with his vote being placed on me because some chart tells him to. Find reasons to vote me or someone else, dont vote me because a chart says that i have a large amount of possible scumteam combinations left. Say everyone went with your chart and voted me, now you have a mislynch when i flip town, a wasted day phase, and one less town member which puts you closer to losing. I will unvote Jaack but i swear if he turns out to be scum, i will be upset at you all.

UNVOTE:

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Jaack/SAJ looks SvT or SvS (not looking at chart for this so I may be off)
Idrk about Arc and Dunhal but the think you're pushing isn't really AI

[ProHawk]

**Takes Finger Out of Nose** OH! Right....

So here is where I am at. I kinda like Jaacks plan, and I am getting town feels from him so I think a debate between {Dunhallym, Jin, ArcAngel} is great. They are all three the most probable to be scum from what I understand in the chart, although not necessarily guaranteed to be scum. I am no statistician, but I think the odds are really pretty low that scum isn't in that group.

Dunhallym is highly likely town, or really good scum, town for me though. Initially wants to start out scum-hunting and has followed through with the scum-hunting. Seems genuine.

Arc Angel really could swing both ways for me. If someone hasn't ever seen a matrix before, its pretty understandable that she could be confused there? I can see what Dunhallym is getting at with the why follow the crowd when you don't have a clue what's going on though...

There are a few posts that I don't like about Jin.

need Jaack to be in all my games from now on.

^This after Jaack puts him in a pool of three lynch candidates.

You are aware that A) My RVS vote was on myself and still is and B) I didnt walk anything back and i wasnt called out on anything. Jaacks whole post is weirdly defensive, or just plain weird.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Jaack

^If that's not a defensive post, I'm not sure what is... and apparently Jaack is scum for being defensive?

I dont agree with his vote being placed on me because some chart tells him to. Find reasons to vote me or someone else, dont vote me because a chart says that i have a large amount of possible scumteam combinations left.

Classic "Caught for the Wrong Reasons" Post. Aaaand then AtE.

VOTE: Secret Agent Jin

[ProHawk]

@ProHawk

I forgot the question I had for you yesterday night.
You said you suspected me because I wanted to postpone the claims. Yet you didn't say anything about Tenshii who gave the same thought. Why?

Could only vote for one person, and it wasn't really a concrete anything to go off of, just a starting point.

[ProHawk]

Gamma probably can't be scum, maybe its conf-bias, but maaan does he look like scum. Imagine all of the people who would be confirmed town if he flipped scum!.... so tempting.

[Secret Agent Jin]

See it however you want to see it ProHawk, i was appealing to logic and not emotion with that post. You dont just look at a sheet and aya someone is capable of being scum, you look at their reasonings, their posts, and their reactions and you build a case on them. I could easily go "Look at Arc, she has 5 possible scum combos available" but that doesnt prove she is scum. You all have your opinions no matter what i do. All i can say is i assessed what i was doing, which was reacting based on a vote on me, and i backed off before it blew up. If you think i am scum then vote me and when i am lynched ill flip town or you could back off of me and look at other possible scum.

[Jaack]

@Jaack

: what do you think of Arc? I’d also like your opinion on ZZZX.

I don't have much of an opinion on Arc. When I voted for Jin initiially I almsot voted for Arc because modvotes aren't much better than self votes in RVS, but other than that I don't really see anything notable with what she's done so far. I think her confusion with regards to your questions is genuine, but that's doesn't rule out her being scum necessarily.

ZZZX gives me a few scummy feels. He says he wants to focus on scumhunting in 98 but doesn't really add much going in that direction. Could just be lazy town, but I'm keeping an eye out here.

[Creature]

Bump