Newbie 1761: Welcome to Mafia (Game Over)

[Deimos27]

Okay could you compile them into a single post please? They're kind of all over the place at this point.

[MortFeld]

Okay could you compile them into a single post please? They're kind of all over the place at this point.

This is lazy. They're not all over the place. Our dialogue was very linear.

180 has one question.
182 has one question.
187 has three questions, plus one directing you to 182.
188 has one question.
190 has one question.
199 has one question, but you could argue that it's rhetorical and I don't really care if you answer it.

These all remain unanswered.

[Clemency]

No, what I'm saying is that I was scum in that game, so even if I said this it means nothing.

You didnt say it last game, you were against it as an idea and yet you're directly quoting it now.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.08

Cheetory6 (1) - algebra
karldilkington (1) - Cheetory6
Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez (1) - XnadrojX

Not Voting (6) - ArcAngel9, karldilkington, Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez, Clemency, MortFeld, Deimos27

With 9 votes in play, it will take 5 to lynch.

The deadline is Tuesday, December 13, 2016, at 9:00 PM EST (UTC-5), which is in (expired on 2016-12-13 21:00:00).

Moderator Comments

ArcAngel9 is on V/LA from December 2 to December 8.

[MortFeld]

No, what I'm saying is that I was scum in that game, so even if I said this it means nothing.

You didnt say it last game, you were against it as an idea and yet you're directly quoting it now.

You're not understanding him. He's making this argument:

1) Deimos said X thing as scum.
2) Deimos said ~X in this game. He has claimed town.
3) Scum lie for a number of reasons.
4) C1: Deimos may or may not believe X.
5) C2: Because Deimos was scum when he said X, his saying ~X is NAI.

The argument is flawed because 3) and 4) don't result in 5). Scum don't lie about everything, and inconsistencies are still meaningful.

[MortFeld]

At least I think he's making that argument. All he actually said was 5).

[Clemency]

Well, I'm really tired, I'm gonna clock out for the night.

[Deimos27]

Fair enough Mort, but I really don't recall saying that I was against this conclusion in the first place. I asked Clem to quote it too, but he has not. I repeat this request.

I feel a lot better now and I think I've placed my finger on why I was feeling so flustered. I'll elaborate and answer your questions in my next few posts. (May or may not come immediately as I have little time at the moment.)

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

You know what strikes me odd is the fact Xnad hasn't posted since my post and the slight accusation. He just went totally quiet and lurking all of a sudden. Now you could say this is because he had questions but when I countered he just went dead. Honestly this is weird since usually by the time I've come home from school and stuff he's posted several times over. Now he's silent.

I don't trust this silence, as up until he was accused he was contributing, or as Mort put it, flapping his wings and squacking. Yet the second this is countered, he's gone. Now I don't know about you guys but this is mighty sus for me.

Vote XnadrojX

until proven wrong.

[MortFeld]

You know what strikes me odd is the fact Xnad hasn't posted since my post and the slight accusation. He just went totally quiet and lurking all of a sudden. Now you could say this is because he had questions but when I countered he just went dead. Honestly this is weird since usually by the time I've come home from school and stuff he's posted several times over. Now he's silent.

I don't trust this silence, as up until he was accused he was contributing, or as Mort put it, flapping his wings and squacking. Yet the second this is countered, he's gone. Now I don't know about you guys but this is mighty sus for me.

Vote XnadrojX

until proven wrong.

Can you talk more about why you think he's lurking, as opposed to just doing something else/being away from the internet?

Also, say Xnad posts content in a couple hours. Currently your reason for suspecting him is that you think he's lurking. Do you then unvote?

Arguments based solely on activity tend to be NAI, but if you have something more convincing I'd love to hear it.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

If he does indeed post and explain I will likely unvote. The thing is when he attacked me he attacked a what I feel is a strawman of one or two ambiguous sentences that he based his WHOLE CASE on. He also accused me of weak and fallacious arguements which he never cared to elaborate on, which would be Pro town if he told us. He also seems to be late with his posting time when he's usually rather punctual about it. Now, I feel our time zones are different and I get it but still, isn't it kinda convenient he dissapears right when it starts to get kinda ugly? If he don't post and give a good reason to both answer my post and why he wasn't here my vote is staying.

[MortFeld]

The thing is when he attacked me he attacked a what I feel is a strawman of one or two ambiguous sentences that he based his WHOLE CASE on.

In what way is it a straw man?

It's certainly something, but it's not a straw man. You should focus on this, not the activity argument. His activity is NAI.

[MortFeld]

@Zaraki - how does Xnad's cherrypicking statements make him scum?

[Deimos27]

Okay. I'd like to apologize for everything said last page. (Except the paragraph about Zaraki, I really meant that.)

I haven't been able to read jack this game and I feel kind of pressured to do well, because
a) Before we joined ms, I made a promise to Clemency that we'd try to become the best on the site. Obviously not very likely, but one can dream.

b) I think of myself as a reasonable player as town, and Clemency agrees. So maybe I feel like I should be leading, playing well, asking questions, when this is clearly not the case this game, because as I said,

I can't read anyone...

I think this is why I was so frustrated. I'm generally very overly self-critical anyway.

A lot of you probably aren't feeling very inclined to want to play with me again after my play so far this game (I honestly feel like I was a better town in my scum game), but I'm gonna go ahead and make that right immediately. If anything, the experience I just had has made me more motivated than ever.

@Mort - Answers incoming in my next post.

[Deimos27]

Spoiler: My Answers

180 - I don't know why I was so short and concise. However I can guarantee to you that was my thought process. Not that you have any reason to just take my word for it.

I didn't question the vote before Cheetory's because I felt that a person wouldn't want to vote the same person for the third post in a row, that putting someone to L-2 so soon would not be something people are inclined to do, in RVS at least.

182 - In contrast to his usual playstyle. However as Clemency pointed out, he did say that he was gonna start trying harder, which I missed. Besides, I did say

if

we have a Cheetory scum flip.

187 - a) No, nothing invalid. It just feels horrible to me. I love scumhunting, but here I'm busy trying to constantly defend myself. See by previous post for why I think I was so frustrated.

b) This is about the Cheetory/Clemency thing. People said it was a weird thing to say, but it was my opinion so I voiced it.

c) I wanted to defend myself before anyone had a chance to point it out. Because I felt that saying it after someone called me out on "backpedalling" would seem scummy. I feel like I'm already extreme lynchbait.

188 - #178 and #184 made me feel this way.

190 - Not necessarily. Scummiest out of everyone else I guess but there is so stunningly little content it's difficult to say.

199 - No offense, but I care about what Clemency thinks more than what you think. Especially when he goes and straight up lies about my actions last game (as far as my recollection). Clemency and I are friends IRL, although currently on different continents.

Mort, you're playing really well so far, very townie. Assume I'm also town and give me your thoughts on everyone else in the game. Who are your top picks for scum?

[MortFeld]

So maybe I feel like I should be leading, playing well, asking questions, when this is clearly not the case this game, because as I said,

I can't read anyone...

What makes the players in this game difficult to read?

A lot of you probably aren't feeling very inclined to want to play with me again after my play so far this game

I'm not bothered. If you're scum, you'll act like scum. If you're town, you'll help solve the game. Certain things can set me off personally but you haven't done any of those.

[MortFeld]

a) I know from experience that Clemency loves to play scum and dislikes playing town. So I thought he'd be frustrated being town again after last game (see sig). However he instead seems sort of cheery and more motivated.

Explain this more? Clem doesn't seem motivated to me at all. He only willingly produces content once prodded to.

182 - In contrast to his usual playstyle. However as Clemency pointed out, he did say that he was gonna start trying harder, which I missed. Besides, I did say

if

we have a Cheetory scum flip.

I don't think you understood. Your argument:

1) Clem enjoys playing scum roles more than town roles.
2) Clem seems to be cheery and motivated this game.
3) Therefore, it is more likely that Clem is scum than town.

I don't see how this makes sense. You're saying: "as Clemency pointed out, he did say that he was gonna start trying harder, which I missed." By your own argument, wouldn't trying harder make Clem scummy? Your argument basically implies that, for Clem, anti-town play is townplay. I was trying to see if this is what you meant.

Assuming we have a Cheetory lynch and he flips scum, I can see Clemency as the partner for a number of reasons.

Do you think Cheetory is scum?

190 - Not necessarily. Scummiest out of everyone else I guess but there is so stunningly little content it's difficult to say.

Why is he scummy?

199 - No offense, but I care about what Clemency thinks more than what you think. Especially when he goes and straight up lies about my actions last game (as far as my recollection). Clemency and I are friends IRL, although currently on different continents.

I don't see how any of this is relevant. If you said X last game and ~X this game, who cares whether you value Clem's opinion more than mine? I want to look into it.

[MortFeld]

Mort, you're playing really well so far, very townie.

Thanks.

Assume I'm also town

No.

give me your thoughts on everyone else in the game. Who are your top picks for scum?

Town - Zaraki, Algebra
Town lean - Clem, Karl
Null - Cheetory, Arc
Scum lean - Xnad
Scum - Deimos

[Cheetory6]

Hoping to do a catch-up either tonight or tomorrow.
I've been following along, but some discussions have had a little bit too much depth for me to really follow without jumping post to post and I haven't really had time to do that.

[Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez]

@MortField I feel like his cherry picking is kinda scumlean for me. I mean why would a town be looking at only 1 or 2 statements in an arguement? He refused to even read the rest of my post and just stick with stuff that give him a "case". His entire "case" is basically taking a few words from my post and making it favor him. I don't know if that's strawmanning but it sure is somewhere close. Also why would a town pick and choose? A town CAN'T just be picky. Like I said before he just says what conveniences. His convictión that I'm scum is quite suspicion too. He knows I'm not scum and will use the randomest of stuff to accused and try to lynch a town. Now I can see somebody picking through for clues but refusing to acknowledge the rest of the post and only the parts he seems "scummy"? That's scum tricking ya.

I am not unvoting but if we Xnad lynch and he flips scum I'm betting on a Deimos/Xnad partnership.
Why? He defends that man to the death. I had no issues with him until I stated arguing with Deimos. He just jumped in and accused me willy-nilly. No basis. And when I explained he refused to acknowledge my explanación and ran away with his two statements.

[Clemency]

Fine, Deimos, I went through the last game and there wasn't a single sentence against it on your part. That was my bad.

[XnadrojX]

You know what strikes me odd is the fact Xnad hasn't posted since my post and the slight accusation. He just went totally quiet and lurking all of a sudden. Now you could say this is because he had questions but when I countered he just went dead. Honestly this is weird since usually by the time I've come home from school and stuff he's posted several times over. Now he's silent.

I don't trust this silence, as up until he was accused he was contributing, or as Mort put it, flapping his wings and squacking. Yet the second this is countered, he's gone. Now I don't know about you guys but this is mighty sus for me.

Vote XnadrojX

until proven wrong.

I'm out today I'll answer everything tomorow.

[Clemency]

Good news, I got a computer. It's a laggy toaster that can barely run Google Chrome but oh well.

[Deimos27]

a) I know from experience that Clemency loves to play scum and dislikes playing town. So I thought he'd be frustrated being town again after last game (see sig). However he instead seems sort of cheery and more motivated.

Explain this more? Clem doesn't seem motivated to me at all. He only willingly produces content once prodded to.

182 - In contrast to his usual playstyle. However as Clemency pointed out, he did say that he was gonna start trying harder, which I missed. Besides, I did say

if

we have a Cheetory scum flip.

I don't think you understood. Your argument:

1) Clem enjoys playing scum roles more than town roles.
2) Clem seems to be cheery and motivated this game.
3) Therefore, it is more likely that Clem is scum than town.

I don't see how this makes sense. You're saying: "as Clemency pointed out, he did say that he was gonna start trying harder, which I missed." By your own argument, wouldn't trying harder make Clem scummy? Your argument basically implies that, for Clem, anti-town play is townplay. I was trying to see if this is what you meant.

Nah. He decided last game that he would start focusing and putting more effort into playing town. Therefore he does it as both alignments. Therefore it's NAI.

Assuming we have a Cheetory lynch and he flips scum, I can see Clemency as the partner for a number of reasons.

Do you think Cheetory is scum?

190 - Not necessarily. Scummiest out of everyone else I guess but there is so stunningly little content it's difficult to say.

Why is he scummy?

Scummier than everyone else. Because he's supposed to be the IC but he's somewhat lurking and joking around, not really participating too meaningfully. In this case "scummiest out of everyone else" means pretty close to null though.

199 - No offense, but I care about what Clemency thinks more than what you think. Especially when he goes and straight up lies about my actions last game (as far as my recollection). Clemency and I are friends IRL, although currently on different continents.

I don't see how any of this is relevant. If you said X last game and ~X this game, who cares whether you value Clem's opinion more than mine? I want to look into it.

This was your question in 199:

Why are you focusing on meta stuff and not answering my questions?

I was focusing on Clemency's statements (partly via meta), as opposed to your questions. Therefore my answer was perfectly relevant to your question. As to the X and ~X thing, this was already answered in #207, and now Clemency confirmed in #220.

[Deimos27]

Mort, you're playing really well so far, very townie.

Thanks.

Assume I'm also town

No.

give me your thoughts on everyone else in the game. Who are your top picks for scum?

Town - Zaraki, Algebra
Town lean - Clem, Karl
Null - Cheetory, Arc
Scum lean - Xnad
Scum - Deimos

Sure, but assuming I'm town, who would be your top picks for scum? Also, who do you think is my scumpartner if I'm scum?