Mini 1851 : Order of the Stick Mafia - Epilogue

[Infinity 324]

Sometimes you just have bad days, you know?

[Nachomamma8]

And I don't think you believe the sum of my reads on you are "I want to hear from nacho."

I certainly hope not, but that + "he has said a lot without doing anything" is the sum of what you've expressed unless I missed some juicy Kagami commentary somewhere.

[PeregrineV]

If you were scum and Nacho was town, would you leave him around?

If nightklills aren't rolefishing or a group decision or a game reason, I find they are mostly personal (as in XXXX knows me too well, not as in I hate XXXX).

but see, towards the end of the day, anti-nacho sentiment started flying about the room and it was mostly farside and kagami's doing. wisdom chimed in on it too iirc, maybe infinity too.
tammy at the time looked like one of the few people who wouldnt give him a hard time on day 2

I don't think scum-Nacho would be killing players "pushing for his lynch" on day1. Anyone who has played even a few games can weather anything like that.

[Tammy]

Basically nacho I'm thinking about the last time I saw you as scum, at GOG, when I caught your partner in part for SK hunting and you dismissed it because you thought it was an SK kill also while perfectly well knowing that my argument was the he stopped scum hunting and was SK hunting.

As for why I'm also getting the feeling of gog is just the disconnection you feel here. I did like your energy day one; unfortunately it was ended too soon before I could really see you interact and how you would approach end of day.

Plus, if you were the NK last night, Nacho makes more sense as scum, since you guys have that readback-feedback-reverb thing going on.

Me possibly being the nk last night is the thing that is giving me the most pause where nacho is concerned. He'd have little reason to kill me besides the vig shot I might possibly have. I didn't express any doubts on him yesterday; I only expressed them last night in the neighborhood. In order for him to have known about it, Kraska would have had to tell him, which would mean he also knows I'm bulletproof so it would be a wasted shot unless he was trying to confirm kraska as town. Except he knows I get paranoid and would entertain this possibility.

Regardless I just can't understand why he would shoot me night one.

If you were scum and Nacho was town, would you leave him around?

If nightklills aren't rolefishing or a group decision or a game reason, I find they are mostly personal (as in XXXX knows me too well, not as in I hate XXXX).

Yep. We tend to leave each other alive night one especially.

[Nachomamma8]

therere only 2 flipped vanillas and thats hardly "many". so this is basically kagami claiming vt and i dont see why kagami as scum would randomly cut down options for herself like that when theres no need to

I mean, it's not like three vanillas is many either.

[Infinity 324]

It's possible leon thought killing shaddow to save himself was good, but i really don't think it would've been optimal. He still could've been lynched if people thought he was SK or something, and killing shaddow saves town from having to lynch him.

[Tammy]

Oh shit it's Robb Stark

I was just over at mafiauniverse trying to figure that out.

So, nacho if you're scum reading cakez, how come you ignored my concerns on cakez?

[PeregrineV]

Basically nacho I'm thinking about the last time I saw you as scum, at GOG, when I caught your partner in part for SK hunting and you dismissed it because you thought it was an SK kill also while perfectly well knowing that my argument was the he stopped scum hunting and was SK hunting.

As for why I'm also getting the feeling of gog is just the disconnection you feel here. I did like your energy day one; unfortunately it was ended too soon before I could really see you interact and how you would approach end of day.

Plus, if you were the NK last night, Nacho makes more sense as scum, since you guys have that readback-feedback-reverb thing going on.

Me possibly being the nk last night is the thing that is giving me the most pause where nacho is concerned. He'd have little reason to kill me besides the vig shot I might possibly have. I didn't express any doubts on him yesterday; I only expressed them last night in the neighborhood. In order for him to have known about it, Kraska would have had to tell him, which would mean he also knows I'm bulletproof so it would be a wasted shot unless he was trying to confirm kraska as town. Except he knows I get paranoid and would entertain this possibility.

Regardless I just can't understand why he would shoot me night one.

If you were scum and Nacho was town, would you leave him around?

If nightklills aren't rolefishing or a group decision or a game reason, I find they are mostly personal (as in XXXX knows me too well, not as in I hate XXXX).

Yep. We tend to leave each other alive night one especially.

OK, I'll take your word for it, but it really is the explanation for some of the strange night1 kills in games.

[kraska77]

@nacho well yeaah but
still makes more sense that she would think towns not pr heavy if she knows there are 3 vanillas

[Nachomamma8]

I'd probably not be having an issue with this is you had ended it with "surprise" because it's the last bit that bugs me.

When your paranoia spiked because of my absence, that was the thought process behind it, no?

[Nachomamma8]

@nacho well yeaah but
still makes more sense that she would think towns not pr heavy if she knows there are 3 vanillas

I can agree with this, but it's not a huge difference and it's a weird conclusion to reach either way.

[PeregrineV]

It's possible leon thought killing shaddow to save himself was good, but i really don't think it would've been optimal. He still could've been lynched if people thought he was SK or something, and killing shaddow saves town from having to lynch him.

Well then, really, if leon is scum, he could save his vig shot and shoot town tonight.

Shaddow could have just shot himself to make us think Leon used up his vig.

That would be some wily mafia there.....

[Nachomamma8]

Oh shit it's Robb Stark

I was just over at mafiauniverse trying to figure that out.

So, nacho if you're scum reading cakez, how come you ignored my concerns on cakez?

I didn't think I ignored them. I disagreed with your reasoning re: kraska because Cakez got a guilty on her, he didn't really catch her and some of his lack of conviction reminded me of Real Folks Blues.

[Infinity 324]

It's possible leon thought killing shaddow to save himself was good, but i really don't think it would've been optimal. He still could've been lynched if people thought he was SK or something, and killing shaddow saves town from having to lynch him.

Well then, really, if leon is scum, he could save his vig shot and shoot town tonight.

Shaddow could have just shot himself to make us think Leon used up his vig.

That would be some wily mafia there.....

Lol, there's no mafia vig. If shaddow was killed by his own team, it was in place of a nightkill.

[kraska77]

it is....
i have trouble understanding where kagami's coming from most of the time but this, and her focus on wraith's mr scruffy shtick, dont feel like things that would come from scum

pedit: @nacho
also im loving the recent boom in activity. pere stop disappearing pls

[Tammy]

I'd probably not be having an issue with this is you had ended it with "surprise" because it's the last bit that bugs me.

When your paranoia spiked because of my absence, that was the thought process behind it, no?

Are you not reading the game in whole? It certainly doesn't feel that way. It feels like you're doing that iso thing and that's why you're missing stuff.

All day today I've talked about not having you figured out, concerned about you, kraska said that I expressed paranoia on you in the neighborhood.

After I made that post (and in the three little pigs post that you commented about), I defended you against cakez' dodging the game post. I said I was frustrated. I said that you were following along and could have commented on anything but didn't.

And when Infinity interpreted it that way I literally said:

Infinity I wasn't saying he's scum because he didn't catch up, I'm saying he's probably scum because he's just probably scum.

He's clearly following along as he wanted Leon to full claim. He could have responded to any other thing as well and he didn't.

I can make that big for you if you want, but I think you know exactly what you're doing and should stop.

[PeregrineV]

It's possible leon thought killing shaddow to save himself was good, but i really don't think it would've been optimal. He still could've been lynched if people thought he was SK or something, and killing shaddow saves town from having to lynch him.

Well then, really, if leon is scum, he could save his vig shot and shoot town tonight.

Shaddow could have just shot himself to make us think Leon used up his vig.

That would be some wily mafia there.....

Lol, there's no mafia vig. If shaddow was killed by his own team, it was in place of a nightkill.

You want me to believe that mafia-Leon killed Mafia-Shaddow so that mafia-Leon would not be lynched by town today.

I'm saying that if that is the case, why would mafia-Leon need to shoot mafia-Shaddow when mafia-Shaddow could just as easily shot himself?

That leaves mafia-Leon free to do other nefarious mafia things.

Right?

[PeregrineV]

it is....
i have trouble understanding where kagami's coming from most of the time but this, and her focus on wraith's mr scruffy shtick, dont feel like things that would come from scum

pedit: @nacho
also im loving the recent boom in activity. pere stop disappearing pls

It's Friday, so might not be back until Monday.

On the other hand, all my games are in day, so more reason to drop in over the weekend.

[Tammy]

Oh shit it's Robb Stark

I was just over at mafiauniverse trying to figure that out.

So, nacho if you're scum reading cakez, how come you ignored my concerns on cakez?

I didn't think I ignored them. I disagreed with your reasoning re: kraska because Cakez got a guilty on her, he didn't really catch her and some of his lack of conviction reminded me of Real Folks Blues.

Yeah, you did ignore them. Why do you think I asked if this was the game where you were just going to ignore me if you actually interacted with anything that I said that had anything to do with the game except for you willfully misinterpreting me saying you were probably scum as me saying you didn't catch up and so you were scum and fucking harping on that???

You're just scum and you know exactly what you're doing!

[Tammy]

VOTE: nacho

[Infinity 324]

It's possible leon thought killing shaddow to save himself was good, but i really don't think it would've been optimal. He still could've been lynched if people thought he was SK or something, and killing shaddow saves town from having to lynch him.

Well then, really, if leon is scum, he could save his vig shot and shoot town tonight.

Shaddow could have just shot himself to make us think Leon used up his vig.

That would be some wily mafia there.....

Lol, there's no mafia vig. If shaddow was killed by his own team, it was in place of a nightkill.

You want me to believe that mafia-Leon killed Mafia-Shaddow so that mafia-Leon would not be lynched by town today.

I'm saying that if that is the case, why would mafia-Leon need to shoot mafia-Shaddow when mafia-Shaddow could just as easily shot himself?

That leaves mafia-Leon free to do other nefarious mafia things.

Right?

Well, shaddow can still use an action if he gets shot. But fair enough.

[kraska77]

If you were scum and Nacho was town, would you leave him around?

If nightklills aren't rolefishing or a group decision or a game reason, I find they are mostly personal (as in XXXX knows me too well, not as in I hate XXXX).

but see, towards the end of the day, anti-nacho sentiment started flying about the room and it was mostly farside and kagami's doing. wisdom chimed in on it too iirc, maybe infinity too.
tammy at the time looked like one of the few people who wouldnt give him a hard time on day 2

I don't think scum-Nacho would be killing players "pushing for his lynch" on day1. Anyone who has played even a few games can weather anything like that.

true but farside was strongly townread by everyone by the end of day one, so was kagami. i think ultimately it looked like nacho would net more from making those kills than shooting tammy

[Tammy]

It's just fucking nacho.

[kraska77]

1. Infinity 324-town.............probably
2. Leonshade- some kind of whatever lyncher. i believe that part of the claim atleast
5. PanterPunt replaced farside22- probably town
6. PeregrineV *- probably scum
7. Tammy- town
8. Nachomamma8 *- lean town
9. Kagami- town
11. Wisdom- town
12. SirCakez- our lynch today, hopefully

pere just makes most sense to me as a cakes partner right now. everyone else im townreading to some degree

[Tammy]

Like nacho here's the deal. I don't think this is your town play this game. I don't think that after seeming pretty joyous day one and talking about how town I was and how you wouldn't abandon me because we're finally on the same team that this is how you play. I don't think you ignore my posts. I don't think you ignore my concern about you. I don't think you ignore the suspicion I have. I don't think you harp on me saying that you're probably just scum and wanting me to point out more. I don't think that this is the continued conversation you have with me. I don't think you make me want to punch you through the computer screen.

I do think it's quite a bit different when we're town together. I do think you're just fucking scum here.