Newbie 1761: Welcome to Mafia (Game Over)

[XnadrojX]

I can go more in-depth if you want but I can't do it now, I'm busy at the moment

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.12

XnadrojX (2) - Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez, Cheetory6
Cheetory6 (1) - algebra
Clemency (1) - XnadrojX
Deimos27 (1) - MortFeld
MortFeld (1) - Deimos27

Not Voting (3) - ArcAngel9, karldilkington, Clemency

With 9 votes in play, it will take 5 to lynch.

The deadline is Tuesday, December 13, 2016, at 9:00 PM EST (UTC-5), which is in (expired on 2016-12-13 21:00:00).

Moderator Comments

ArcAngel9 is on V/LA from December 2 to December 8.
Deimos27 is on V/LA from December 4 to December 6.

[Deimos27]

Okay, so Clemency's push on me is the kind of push you would see him making as town, if I flip scum? But if I flip town, he's driving for a mislynch and extra scummy.

Look, if I flip town:
Clemency is either town sheeping you, and whom happens to not have the best gut reads.

Or he's scum driving for a mislynch on me.

If I flip scum:
He's town who's gutreads happen to be exceptional. (Who knew? But why isn't he voting me...)

Or he's scum who's not participating in the wagon (because they don't really want their scumpartner lynched) whilst still throwing shade at me, to get dat towncred.


But you seem to know exactly which is the case in both situations, which is the discrepancy. So feel free to explain that.

Also, how is the fact that I haven't been pressured much scummy?

Also, what formed the basis for your town read on me? And, assuming you can cogently explain a scummy discrepancy that I'm not seeing, how does this erase your town read of me?

1. It ain't. That's null, so excuse me while I try to sort you, eh?

2. You're questioning and activity, but who says you're not scum being the town we never had? It would be an excellent opportunity to get universally townread. My earlier read was not thought through. It was flawed.

3. Huh? It didn't. You were null as mentioned above.

What I'm exploring is a Mort + Clem scum team, and I actually really like what I'm seeing in that regard. Therefore I'll swing for the Clemency wagon, because even if Mort is scum he's been doing some great work for town, and mislynching Mort would be super bad as opposed to mislynching Clemency, which is comparatively risk-free.

VOTE: Clemency

[Deimos27]

Okay, so Clemency's push on me is the kind of push you would see him making as town, if I flip scum? But if I flip town, he's driving for a mislynch and extra scummy.

Look, if I flip town:
Clemency is either town sheeping you, and whom happens to not have the best gut reads.

Or he's scum driving for a mislynch on me.

If I flip scum:
He's town who's gutreads happen to be exceptional. (Who knew? But why isn't he voting me...)

Or he's scum who's not participating in the wagon (because they don't really want their scumpartner lynched) whilst still throwing shade at me, to get dat towncred.


But you seem to know exactly which is the case in both situations, which is the discrepancy. So feel free to explain that.

Also, how is the fact that I haven't been pressured much scummy?

Also, what formed the basis for your town read on me? And, assuming you can cogently explain a scummy discrepancy that I'm not seeing, how does this erase your town read of me?

1. It ain't. That's null, so excuse me while I try to sort you, eh?

2. You're questioning and activity, but who says you're not scum being the town we never had? It would be an excellent opportunity to get universally townread. My earlier read was not thought through. It was flawed.

3. Huh? It didn't. You were null as mentioned above.

What I'm exploring is a Mort + Clem scum team, and I actually really like what I'm seeing in that regard. Therefore I'll swing for the Clemency wagon, because even if Mort is scum he's been doing some great work for town, and mislynching Mort would be super bad as opposed to mislynching Clemency, which is comparatively risk-free.

VOTE: Clemency

[Deimos27]

Double post. Wot?

[Lethargy]

Alright, I might be bad, but I wouldn't be dumb enough to buddy up with a scumpartner that hard. Sheeping is something I do, you know that, and I plan to do that a bunch in this game as well.
I agree with you in the sense that it'd be a lot better to mislynch me than Mort, but it'd be best to not mislynch at all. The reason I haven't voted you yet is only because I wasn't paying attention and thought I had already.

VOTE: Deimos

[Clemency]

Alright, I might be bad, but I wouldn't be dumb enough to buddy up with a scumpartner that hard. Sheeping is something I do, you know that, and I plan to do that a bunch in this game as well.
I agree with you in the sense that it'd be a lot better to mislynch me than Mort, but it'd be best to not mislynch at all. The reason I haven't voted you yet is only because I wasn't paying attention and thought I had already.

VOTE: Deimos

Oh for fucks sake I've done that twice in 2 posts already.

[Deimos27]

I believe Mort asked you a question. I believe you ought to go ahead and answer it. What is your case on me other than gut?

[Deimos27]

Also where did you "buddy hard" with Mort?

[MortFeld]

What I'm exploring is a Mort + Clem scum team, and I actually really like what I'm seeing in that regard. Therefore I'll swing for the Clemency wagon, because even if Mort is scum he's been doing some great work for town, and mislynching Mort would be super bad as opposed to mislynching Clemency, which is comparatively risk-free.

You are scumhunting by association on Day 1. There are many reasons this is bad play. I wish the IC were here. One such reason is that a Mort + Clem scum team is impossible because Mort is town, but of course if you're town you wouldn't know that. The point is, you are taking a line of play that has been proven to be poor over time and I know for a fact that it is poor this game. Now, poor because you're arrogant newbtown, or poor because you're scum trying to discredit people's primary town read? Not sure.

Also, how is the fact that I haven't been pressured much scummy?

1. It ain't. That's null, so excuse me while I try to sort you, eh?

Then why did you mention it while building a scum case on me? Also, your vote on me in the same post makes it untrue, which I find kind of funny.

Also, what formed the basis for your town read on me?

2. You're questioning and activity, but who says you're not scum being the town we never had? It would be an excellent opportunity to get universally townread. My earlier read was not thought through. It was flawed.

So you were townreading me because I am doing towny things, but now you question the town read because I might be scum doing towny things. Explain how this wouldn't mean every town read is flawed. All town reads are based on people doing towny things, so it seems like you don't believe town reads are valid, at least on Day 1.

And, assuming you can cogently explain a scummy discrepancy that I'm not seeing, how does this erase your town read of me?

3. Huh? It didn't. You were null as mentioned above.

You voted me. You are also saying you think I am scum with Clemency. This is not consistent with a null read at this point in time. Are you saying that you null read me before you came up with the scum case against me? Then why did you also say you town read me before in 285 and I assume earlier?

[MortFeld]

Okay, so Clemency's push on me is the kind of push you would see him making as town, if I flip scum? But if I flip town, he's driving for a mislynch and extra scummy.

Look, if I flip town:
1)Clemency is either town sheeping you, and whom happens to not have the best gut reads.

2)Or he's scum driving for a mislynch on me.

If I flip scum:
3)He's town who's gutreads happen to be exceptional. (Who knew? But why isn't he voting me...)

4)Or he's scum who's not participating in the wagon (because they don't really want their scumpartner lynched) whilst still throwing shade at me, to get dat towncred.

But you seem to know exactly which is the case in both situations

, which is the discrepancy. So feel free to explain that.

Let's label your possibilities 1), 2), 3), and 4) for convenience's sake.

Why do you say this? I've basically said I think 2) and 3) are most likely. Show me where I rule out 1) and 4)? And, since you'll find I never rule out 1) and 4), also show me how believing 2) and 3) are most likely means I have prior info.

And ffs read 286 and 226 again and please really consider whether you think they show I have prior info. I think the assertion is absurd.

Also, this is not a discrepancy. It is an argument attempting to show I have prior info. Originally, it seemed like you were trying to show I was scumreading Clemency at one point and townreading him at another with no reason to change. That is a scummy discrepancy, but I did not do that. Now you're arguing that I have prior info. Keep your scum case straight.

[MortFeld]

Unanswered questions from people who posted after the questions were asked.

@Xnad, can you answer the first part of my 291 please?

@Clem, can you answer my 277 please, as well as the question I asked that Deimos pointed out - "What is your case on Deimos other than gut," specifically since you said it was

mostly

gut.

Alright, I might be bad, but I wouldn't be dumb enough to buddy up with a scumpartner that hard. Sheeping is something I do, you know that, and I plan to do that a bunch in this game as well.
I agree with you in the sense that it'd be a lot better to mislynch me than Mort, but it'd be best to not mislynch at all. The reason I haven't voted you yet is only because I wasn't paying attention and thought I had already.

VOTE: Deimos

So you're voting Deimos because of gut, and because you're sheeping me?

[MortFeld]

These "scumreads" are bad imo.

"I don't have any scumreads at the moment, but Deimos and Xand seem most suspicious to me."
"You can't breadcrumb having null reads on Deimos and Xnad while also saying they're suspicious."
"In that case these are my scumreads."
^Does this feel bad to anyone as well?

Him saying you did all the reasoning for why I'm scum is also bad.

Agree, and agree. It is lazy on both counts. I am juggling whether he lacks any reads of his own because he is town who lacks confidence in his reads (see 276 off the top of my head), or whether it's because he's scum struggling to fake scumhunting.

This is why I want to dialogue with him.

[Clemency]

So you're voting Deimos because of gut, and because you're sheeping me?

Yes.

[Clemency]

@277

Because

I am juggling whether he lacks any reads of his own because he is town who lacks confidence in his reads

[MortFeld]

So you're voting Deimos because of gut, and because you're sheeping me?

Yes.

I am starting to scumread you. I understand that you're phoneposting, but can you at least put an effort into convincing me you're town? You've done zero scumhunting and your reads are just my reads from 217.

You can't sheep me re: Deimos when I haven't provided reasoning. That makes no sense.

@277

Because

I am juggling whether he lacks any reads of his own because he is town who lacks confidence in his reads

You aren't allowed to lack confidence at this point if you're town. Take a flarking leap of faith.

I scumread Xnad and gave a reason. You said "I scumread Xnad because of what Mort said." I scumread Deimos and didn't give a reason (on purpose, though I do have them). You said "I scumread Deimos because of gut and because Mort scumreads him."

When I don't provide a reason for the read you're sheeping, you still sheep it. It reads just like Xnad said - like you're scum who lacks real reads, so you copy the town guy's reads.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Clemency

But please don't let this stop you from trying to convince me that you're town, if you're town.

[MortFeld]

That's L-2.

[MortFeld]

Let's start with a preliminary gimme question.

@Clem - you've said that you think I am town. Give me two other people you think are town also.

Unconnected but don't want to spam post; starting to scumread Xnad less. Deimos I need to talk more with.

[Clemency]

Let's start with a preliminary gimme question.

@Clem - you've said that you think I am town. Give me two other people you think are town also.

Unconnected but don't want to spam post; starting to scumread Xnad less. Deimos I need to talk more with.

algebra and Zaraki.

[MortFeld]

Let's start with a preliminary gimme question.

@Clem - you've said that you think I am town. Give me two other people you think are town also.

Unconnected but don't want to spam post; starting to scumread Xnad less. Deimos I need to talk more with.

algebra and Zaraki.

Why?

[MortFeld]

Also, do you understand that sheeping me re: Deimos is not valid when I haven't presented a reason to scumread Deimos? You sheep reasoning, not a person. You only sheep a person if they're conftown, and I certainly am not.

Which makes your current vote on Deimos based on nothing more than gut - fair, but not when looked at alongside your Xnad scumread, and not when Deimos has actually done concrete, scummy things.

[Clemency]

I feel like replacing out of this game, so someone competent can go defending it instead, since I'm just not finding the motivation but I also don't want to hinder the town.
Would you mind if I did?

[MortFeld]

Would you mind if I did?

Kinda, yes.

Your reason for replacing out is lack of motivation, but that doesn't add up. You are saying things and all I am doing is asking you to justify them, this doesn't take a particularly high amount of motivation unless you have to make up reasons.

Also, replacing out doesn't really help town. The effort required to find a replacement, have them read the thread, and have the town interact with them to start sorting your slot and not just you, is infinitely higher than the effort required for you to not look like lazy scum.

[MortFeld]

But nobody can stop you from replacing out if you have to. I'm just saying that lack of motivation isn't really a reason when what's being asked of you isn't particularly huge, and helping the town isn't really a reason when a replacement could be bad for town.

[MortFeld]

And, if you're scum, replacing out when pressure starts to mount is positively disgusting play.