Newbie 1763 | Foreigners of a Person - Happy Ending?

[Titus]

VOTE: Mlmooney

Running out of mislynches? Yes, we wagon, assess the claim and move forward. If the group believes the slot is town, we lynch someone else.

If any single slot wagons everyone and their brother but buys every claim, that's hard data of scum influence.

Hrm.

You don't fit.

Hrm.

So. Did you change your mind? If so, why?

The sub out. Reads more frustrated town than scum caught with hand in cookie jar.

[Toto]

I agree that if there is two scum in {elhabe,arrow,krylea}

Then its probably krylea+elhabe. Both of them voted arrow. Kryleas interaction with elhabe do look like coaching. But both of them going after arrow sheeping each other doesn't add up so early.

So there is a chance the poe is not 100% correct.

[-Grey-]

VOTE: Mlmooney

Running out of mislynches? Yes, we wagon, assess the claim and move forward. If the group believes the slot is town, we lynch someone else.

If any single slot wagons everyone and their brother but buys every claim, that's hard data of scum influence.

Hrm.

You don't fit.

Hrm.

So. Did you change your mind? If so, why?

The sub out. Reads more frustrated town than scum caught with hand in cookie jar.

There is a thread in the Mafia Discussion forum I think you should read. I'll talk to you post-game.

[Toto]

I'm sorry for being inactive. I was on a vacation (weekend).

Anyways, this game is confusing at this point. Partially because I don't remember your names, lol.


I'm a little concerned about krylea. She's (or he? Idk) trying to lead the town but with little success. Most of her posts are metagaming and fluff. The logic behind her posts is twisted and her intentions shout scum to me.
VOTE: UNVOTE: Srceenplay
VOTE: VOTE: krylea

Sooo... you have nothing to say about the current discussion vis a vis mooney and shannon and nothing to say about Toto's wagon?

Honestly, Arrowscum seems very scummy to me right now. First, his inactivity and lurking seems like he's trying not to be noticed and overlooked. Secondly, he states that krylea shouts like scum to him because her posts are twisted, but how? It seems like to me that he's trying to push blame towards krylea for no good reason or theory. Lastly, he isn't sharing any views about the current discussions or about anything really, which almost seems like he doesn't want to get his hands dirty or he's trying to blend in. That's why I'm VOTE: Arrowscum
Now I'm curious to how he'll respond.

This could be a chainsaw though.

[Titus]

VOTE: Mlmooney

Running out of mislynches? Yes, we wagon, assess the claim and move forward. If the group believes the slot is town, we lynch someone else.

If any single slot wagons everyone and their brother but buys every claim, that's hard data of scum influence.

Hrm.

You don't fit.

Hrm.

So. Did you change your mind? If so, why?

The sub out. Reads more frustrated town than scum caught with hand in cookie jar.

There is a thread in the Mafia Discussion forum I think you should read. I'll talk to you post-game.

I don't spend much time there, but duly noted. I tend to get carried away in theory.

I like you.

[Titus]

I agree that if there is two scum in {elhabe,arrow,krylea}

Then its probably krylea+elhabe. Both of them voted arrow. Kryleas interaction with elhabe do look like coaching. But both of them going after arrow sheeping each other doesn't add up so early.

So there is a chance the poe is not 100% correct.

There is a chance I am wrong. It is day 1, but my method is all about getting a theory and testing.

[-Grey-]

Let's test it on Elhabe.

[Titus]

I think I am voting there but if I am not...

VOTE: Elhabe

Request VC

[Toto]

Ill join the wagon only if we do it the old fashioned way. Krylea coming on board?

[-Grey-]

Ill join the wagon only if we do it the old fashioned way. Krylea coming on board?

I prefer claiming after intent as well.

[-Grey-]

As much as we've beaten the quick-hammer = scum thing into the ground, I highly doubt anyone is likely to jump the gun this game.

[Titus]

Well, I cannot advise or endorse that but I think the group has settled on the suboptimal path.

[shannon]

@Toto, Screen, Grey - -

Since this apparently wasn't obvious at the time:

My 'go ahead and lynch me then' post wasn't about whether or not I wanted to die. It was about seeing who was brave/stupid enough to hammer a wagon that I thought was based on pretty much nothing. That's why I stopped engaging with the thread and left people to their own devices. Funnily enough, no one was up to the challenge when push came to shove.

This has several benefits to town that will become evident when we re-read after a flip. It has given another wagon for comparison with Toto's, it has shown who is willing to unvote vs. who will stand their ground, and it has shown who has the guts to hammer their scum read and who doesn't. Not to mention, the tactic kept me alive, which is another townie out of the lynch pool today. As Titus was saying, seeing who jumps on every wagon (and is convinced by every wagon) is a good way to find scum.

It's a risky play, yes, but worth it I think.

[Srceenplay]

Ok. Everyone seems to be ok with your reasoning. I will move on.
I am still learning and figuring out playstyles.
I suppose you are right, it was a risky gamble.

[Srceenplay]

So on elhabe we are going on lack of information is the information?
I understand what you are saying about her it's just not much there.

Again I will say it is a little off that Krylea began the game strong but when people started questioning her motives her posts have backed down.


And a game question. Does scum have day talk?

[Creature]

Spoiler:

: Are you sure this will work?
: A bit.
: What if all of them pass here?
: Then we follow their "leader".

Votecount 1.8

Votecount 1.8

[0] Srceenplay
[0] -Grey-
[0] fruitsman
[2] krylea - Arrowscum, fruitsman
[3] Elhabe21 - shannon, -Grey-, Titus
[0] Arrowscum
[0] Toto
[1] shannon - krylea
[1] Titus - Elhabe21

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: Srceenplay, Toto

9 players are alive, therefore 5 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-12-22 13:00:00)

[krylea]

Ill join the wagon only if we do it the old fashioned way. Krylea coming on board?

I am not sold on the elhabe wagon just yet. I have noticed that, in the past, when I read through newbie games I often scumread slots hard for things that ended up being newb tells rather than scum tells. I am getting that same feeling with elhabe. Their posts instinctively do seem scummy to me due to the sheeping, lurking, and reactionary posting - but I could easily see all of that coming from uncertain newbie town rather than scum. If we are getting close to deadline and there is still no consensus then I might revisit my stance, but for now I don't think elhabe is where I want to lynch today.

For now, my vote is staying on shannon, but I acknowledge that the wagon on her seems to have lost all traction. I'll go reread her iso and see if I can see this supposed towniness that others are finding. If I do, then I'll consider a lynch elsewhere. Otherwise, I'm staying with her.

[krylea]

Aight, here's where I'm at right now. Can I see the towntells in shannon's recent posts? Potentially yes. But they aren't so concrete that I don't think that they couldn't be faked. And there is still a lot that I

really

don't like in the interactions between shannon and mooney/grey. Srceenplay discussed some of it here. But then after that there's still these posts:

Spoiler:

Krylea you are really starting to piss me off. You act like your play style is the only way to play this game. Just because the way I play doesn't fit into your pretty little box doesn't mean a thing. I will admit all day long to waggoning random people on day one. I've seen the proactive move work. You bitch about voting and when I do you bitch why I voted. Day one doesn't yield deaths to scum, it's a proven ratio. Therefore town is going to die. The way town comes away with any info is on the wagon. You analyze the wagon and yes I know a few tactics on how to analyze it but im sure as hell not giving scum that info until after the flip. What is the point of sitting here for two weeks arguing?

What do you mean by saying you've seen random wagons 'work'? Work how, if not in exposing scum? You say later that 'day one doesn't yield deaths to scum' ((by the way this is false, I can show you other games once this one is down)), so what 'work' exactly do random wagons do?

Let's take you as an example: You're admitting to joining wagons for no reason other than to 'give pressure'. Not based on your reads, just for pressure. How does this give anyone a reason to town read you? And how would you possibly scum read someone else for joining a wagon? Let's say Titus jumps on mine, and then Toto hammers. How can you possibly call them out for it, when you've encouraged random wagon hopping and said that D1 always lynches town? Also, why are *you* town for randomly joining wagons, whereas you suggested in an earlier post that I might be scum for joining Toto's wagon because it was 'convenient'.

Your voting is being bitched about because it's nonsensical. You can't say in a post that you like my reasoning, and then vote me just to get the game going, and pretend that's towny. Voting someone you town read is 100% a scummy thing to do. It's up there with *not* voting someone you scum read.

I hope all that makes sense, I got a bit annoyed while writing it so it may not. TL;DR: You're a hypocrite.

VOTE: MOONEY

I'm sorry for being inactive. I was on a vacation (weekend).

Anyways, this game is confusing at this point. Partially because I don't remember your names, lol.


I'm a little concerned about krylea. She's (or he? Idk) trying to lead the town but with little success. Most of her posts are metagaming and fluff. The logic behind her posts is twisted and her intentions shout scum to me.
VOTE: UNVOTE: Srceenplay
VOTE: VOTE: krylea

Sooo... you have nothing to say about the current discussion vis a vis mooney and shannon and nothing to say about Toto's wagon?

Feel free to make comment on my discussion with Mooney, yourself...

FWIW: I'm town reading Toto and Mooney at the moment.

I still find this sudden reversal from hard scumreading mooney to townreading mooney with no explanation to be one of the most suspicious things I have seen this entire game.

VOTE: Elhabe because for all your questioning, we actually haven't had much substantive to look at from you. Reads list with reasons, please.


(Anyone fancy a random pressure wagon? )

Look, a random vote to try to generate a wagon on someone that isn't her or her scumbuddy.

Krylea is my top pick for scum. See spoilers below for stuff that I find offputting. I can't put my finger on what it is exactly, but I find Krylea to be trying to be town leader in quite a forceful way.

And this just seems too shifty - "And if you don't think Toto is scum, then who do you think is? Coming in and retracting your vote without making any new cases doesn't help town or get us closer to finding scum."

Both of Krylea and Mlmooney, why switch your votes over to Toto.
Someone getting 3 votes on page 1. What warrants that?

Toto, just because you changed avatar doesn't make you less scum. From what I have read a scum play is to avoid conflict. Is that what you are doing by changing it? Avoiding conflict?

Lots of people out for the early kill.
Can we not let everyone check in first?

The way you find scum is by scumhunting and active pressure. Wagons in RVS help get you out of RVS which is always to the benefit of town. The only situation an early wagon is bad is if it leads to a speedlynch, which is generally unlikely unless someone is really stupid or careless. It isn't about an early kill. It's about information.

Toto seemed, as you pointed out, to react defensively to pressure. This can be a scumtell, but also indicates that pressure on that person can lead to responses which might give additional information. Thus, I would definitely like to see more pressure on Toto. That being said, I didn't like mooney's vote at all either, and so my vote is staying parked on them for now.

I have thoughts.

Don't have anything to say yet.

VOTE: krylea

Care to share with the class?

Come on folks, we need more people actively trying to find scum. I like that Toto at least seems to be trying to do something, even if I don't understand quite where it is coming from. Src, a few of your early posts were good, any thoughts on recent developments? Who are your scumreads now?

mooney, shannon, elhabe, I'd like to hear more from all of you (anything at all from shannon would be nice). Especially you, mooney, I'd like to hear more from you besides a naked vote please.

I believe that we just need to keep pushing people for information

Then do it! Your vote is on Toto right now. Do you suspect he is scum? If so, push him for further info or apply additional pressure. If not, who do you suspect?

Oy, mooney, lets hear some more from you. I still don't like your page 1 very much. Get in the thread.

Has Arrowscum posted at all yet?

[snipped for length]
My thoughts on the thread right now are: First I think that maybe Toto might not be scum since he's been taking so many risks with arguing and saying what's on his mind because scum wouldn't try to stand out and take so many risks with being noticed or judged. And because of this I'll
UNVOTE: Toto
However, I won't just ignore Toto and totally decide that he's innocent. I still want to keep an eye out for anything he reveals and I'll keep an open mind about others

Scum can be just as active as town and take just as many risks as town. I don't think that is at all alignment indicative. I am not 100% sold on the Toto case, but I don't think this is a good reason to jump ship.
And if you don't think Toto is scum, then who do you think is? Coming in and retracting your vote without making any new cases doesn't help town or get us closer to finding scum.

Look, another attempt to try to start a new wagon to get attention off herself, on me this time.

Then, the wagon on shannon starts to fall apart, with new wagons beginning to form on Titus and me. And now Grey comes in to the thread, in

mooney's slot

, townreads shannon, and tries to push a new wagon.

I am still not happy with this. And I'd rather be voting this than elhabe.

[Srceenplay]

Krylea and Elhabe, can we get some read lists from you two.

[Titus]

So on elhabe we are going on lack of information is the information?
I understand what you are saying about her it's just not much there.

Again I will say it is a little off that Krylea began the game strong but when people started questioning her motives her posts have backed down.


And a game question. Does scum have day talk?

Can you rephrase the first question?

No. Scum do not have daytalk.

[krylea]

Krylea and Elhabe, can we get some read lists from you two.

Town
Srceenplay
Toto
fruit
---
Titus
elhabe
---
arrow
mooney/grey
shannon
Scum

[Srceenplay]

Elhabe has a little amount of post and information and substance. So the lack of, is the evidence/suspicion?

[Srceenplay]

Krylea and Elhabe, can we get some read lists from you two.

Town
Srceenplay
Toto
fruit
---
Titus
elhabe
---
arrow
mooney/grey
shannon
Scum

Can you elaborate on them.

[Titus]

Yes.

Oh and K's reads are terrible. Grey as scum. Really.

[krylea]

Yes.

Oh and K's reads are terrible. Grey as scum. Really.

Grey's play looks town. But I still have a slight scumread on that slot from pre-replace, and I really don't like their association with shannon.