Newbie 1765 | URW | Endgame

[ConnorJC]

Yeah, I realize that now. I probably should have said that self-voting doesn't really help either side. With that in mind, I incline to think TheDominator is town. However, Dominator is at L-2, which means people should unvote.

In my opinion self-voting can help town by generating discussion at the very beginning. However, now that there is discussion going about who is reading who town/mafia and why, people should unvote, at least for now.

[Nachomamma8]

The only way we'd know a cop actually made that investigation is if they came out and claimed cop and said what they did. It's not town's job to convince other players they are town, instead, it's town's job to find scum.

And yet LQ didn't say anything about cop outing to confirm that they made that investigation.
Town's job is more than just "finding scum". Town's job is being townread by other players, it's presenting their cases in a way that convinces people that they're right and gets people to convince you of a different way if you're wrong. Town's job is mediating conflicts between players that could cause damage to the town as a whole, it's about keeping players contributing and engaged so they become more emotionally invested which makes them harder to lynch and more likely to take an investment in the arguments presented.

[Nachomamma8]

As he said, it was a reaction test.

Do you think that it makes sense for the reaction test to get a good result from people who misrepresent what he's saying? Do you think misrepresenting others is a townie thing to do?

[ConnorJC]

LicketyQuickety I have asked you two questions:

1) What does IC mean. (Answered by Nachomma8 (thanks btw))

2) What do you mean with the cop thing.

Instead of slapping a scum read on me, can you at least my 2nd question?

See #42.

[Rautherdir]

That's not odd. That's what town would do. I didn't mean to include the second part of my last post, didn't notice Connor had posted about it already.

Why would town do it?
Why wouldn't scum do it?

Town would do it because it helps bring attention to someone with knowledge of the starting scenario, i.e. a power role that could be mafia or town.
Mafia wouldn't do it because it lets information about the game slip. (Namely, it would narrow down the possibilities for the starting scenario and what other power roles are out there.)

[Nachomamma8]

Yes, well, I don't read people in a traditional way.

Can you back it up?
If you have reasoning that trends outside the box, then that's "non-traditional".
If you don't, then you're reading with gut which is plenty traditional if incredibly difficult to calibrate.

[ConnorJC]

The only way we'd know a cop actually made that investigation is if they came out and claimed cop and said what they did. It's not town's job to convince other players they are town, instead, it's town's job to find scum.

And yet LQ didn't say anything about cop outing to confirm that they made that investigation.
Town's job is more than just "finding scum". Town's job is being townread by other players, it's presenting their cases in a way that convinces people that they're right and gets people to convince you of a different way if you're wrong. Town's job is mediating conflicts between players that could cause damage to the town as a whole, it's about keeping players contributing and engaged so they become more emotionally invested which makes them harder to lynch and more likely to take an investment in the arguments presented.

Town cannot win by simply getting townread.

While town should not play so scummy that they are randomly getting scumread, trying to convince one player I'm town is a waste of time I could be using to find scum (A way better outcome).

As he said, it was a reaction test.

Do you think that it makes sense for the reaction test to get a good result from people who misrepresent what he's saying? Do you think misrepresenting others is a townie thing to do?

He said that we would read him town because of the cop check. For that to happen we'd have to know about the check.

[Superhans]

LicketyQuickety I have asked you two questions:

1) What does IC mean. (Answered by Nachomma8 (thanks btw))

2) What do you mean with the cop thing.

Instead of slapping a scum read on me, can you at least my 2nd question?

See #42.

I kinda wanted Lickety to respond, thanks ConnorJC. Lickety, perhaps you want to add more to you answer that it was a reaction. What have you observed from this reaction test?

[ConnorJC]

That's not odd. That's what town would do. I didn't mean to include the second part of my last post, didn't notice Connor had posted about it already.

Why would town do it?
Why wouldn't scum do it?

Town would almost never post something like that with actually info, as the only town that can know there's a cop is the doctor. Also, the mafia will have a roleblocker, so they'll probably be able to guess that person's a doc.

[ConnorJC]

with actual info*

[ConnorJC]

Oh my, that sentence was horrible.
as the only way that town can know*

[Nachomamma8]

Town would do it because it helps bring attention to someone with knowledge of the starting scenario, i.e. a power role that could be mafia or town.
Mafia wouldn't do it because it lets information about the game slip. (Namely, it would narrow down the possibilities for the starting scenario and what other power roles are out there.)

Hmmm.

The only way that LQ would have information about the starting scenario is if he was a power role or mafia; if he was a power role, I personally don't think that he'd be interested in painting a huge target on his back and hinting to the other PR (if one exists) that he is town early is silly when he can confirm himself if he has to by claiming.

[ConnorJC]

LicketyQuickety I have asked you two questions:

1) What does IC mean. (Answered by Nachomma8 (thanks btw))

2) What do you mean with the cop thing.

Instead of slapping a scum read on me, can you at least my 2nd question?

See #42.

I kinda wanted Lickety to respond, thanks ConnorJC. Lickety, perhaps you want to add more to you answer that it was a reaction. What have you observed from this reaction test?

I think he was looking for someone to point out the fact that he looks like he has knowledge of the setup, but maybe I'm wrong.

[ConnorJC]

Town would do it because it helps bring attention to someone with knowledge of the starting scenario, i.e. a power role that could be mafia or town.
Mafia wouldn't do it because it lets information about the game slip. (Namely, it would narrow down the possibilities for the starting scenario and what other power roles are out there.)

Hmmm.

The only way that LQ would have information about the starting scenario is if he was a power role or mafia; if he was a power role, I personally don't think that he'd be interested in painting a huge target on his back and hinting to the other PR (if one exists) that he is town early is silly when he can confirm himself if he has to by claiming.

Which is why it is likely he either has no info (because it was a reaction test) or is mafia.

[Nachomamma8]

Town cannot win by simply getting townread. While town should not play so scummy that they are randomly getting scumread, trying to convince one player I'm town is a waste of time I could be using to find scum (A way better outcome).

I never said that town could win just by getting townread; instead, my response was geared towards showing that there were a lot of moving pieces in winning a game as town. In this scenario, responding to me means that A) you're gaining a better understanding of my reading of you, which is a good hint to my alignment B) you're convincing me that you're town, which means that I'll direct pressure elsewhere and thus you're improving town's chances of finding scum, and C) you're creating an interaction for everyone to observe, which will make both of our respective alignments clearer to the town.

I don't think that it's a "waste of time" to engage another player who is suspecting you.

[Nachomamma8]

He said that we would read him town because of the cop check. For that to happen we'd have to know about the check.

He said that people were going to read him town because he said that the cop should investigate me. He didn't say that people were going to read him town because of the check itself.

[Nachomamma8]

That's not odd. That's what town would do. I didn't mean to include the second part of my last post, didn't notice Connor had posted about it already.

Why would town do it?
Why wouldn't scum do it?

Town would almost never post something like that with actually info, as the only town that can know there's a cop is the doctor. Also, the mafia will have a roleblocker, so they'll probably be able to guess that person's a doc.

The only town that knows there's a cop is the cop. Doctor knows there could be a cop or a tracker but doesn't know for sure.
Mafia don't know if there is a cop in the setup or not.

[Nachomamma8]

I think he was looking for someone to point out the fact that he looks like he has knowledge of the setup, but maybe I'm wrong.

There's no reason to point this out before LQ has a chance to respond; Superhaus was probably directing that question at LQ in order to get a better read on him, which he can't do as effectively if you're providing all of LQ's answers for him.

[Rautherdir]

Hmmm.

The only way that LQ would have information about the starting scenario is if he was a power role or mafia; if he was a power role, I personally don't think that he'd be interested in painting a huge target on his back and hinting to the other PR (if one exists) that he is town early is silly when he can confirm himself if he has to by claiming.

So, are you saying LQ is scum?

Also, Mafia Roleblocker would know one of two different sets of power roles could be in play. If LQ is a Mafia Roleblocker than they are finding out which is valid.

[ConnorJC]

Town cannot win by simply getting townread. While town should not play so scummy that they are randomly getting scumread, trying to convince one player I'm town is a waste of time I could be using to find scum (A way better outcome).

I never said that town could win just by getting townread; instead, my response was geared towards showing that there were a lot of moving pieces in winning a game as town. In this scenario, responding to me means that A) you're gaining a better understanding of my reading of you, which is a good hint to my alignment B) you're convincing me that you're town, which means that I'll direct pressure elsewhere and thus you're improving town's chances of finding scum, and C) you're creating an interaction for everyone to observe, which will make both of our respective alignments clearer to the town.

I don't think that it's a "waste of time" to engage another player who is suspecting you.

Ok, fair enough, it probably isn't a complete waste of time. My point is that I'd like to avoid getting into a long drawn out argument that benefits nobody but scum.
You should present your arguments to the rest of the thread. Remember, you want to convince them that I'm town/scum, not me. Convincing me I'm scum does nothing, regardless of whether I'm town or scum. Convincing others I'm scum gets me lynched, which is what you want if you think I'm scummy.

pedit: Docker knows there's a 50% for a cop.
pedit2: I'm saying what I think the answer is, which helps other players get a read on me. I still invited LQ to respond.
pedit3: You know, I'm just going to post this and make another post for new stuff

[toblerone187]

Mafia don't know if there is a cop in the setup or not.

Am I correct though that if there is a mafia roleblocker they know there may be a cop (and a doc)?

[ConnorJC]

He said that we would read him town because of the cop check. For that to happen we'd have to know about the check.

He said that people were going to read him town because he said that the cop should investigate me. He didn't say that people were going to read him town because of the check itself.

Oh, you're right, I misinterpreted his post. As such, I'll unvote for now

UNVOTE: LicketyQuickety

[ConnorJC]

Mafia don't know if there is a cop in the setup or not.

Am I correct though that if there is a mafia roleblocker they know there may be a cop (and a doc)?

Yes, although I doubt LQ is actually a doc.

[Nachomamma8]

So, are you saying LQ is scum?

Also, Mafia Roleblocker would know one of two different sets of power roles could be in play. If LQ is a Mafia Roleblocker than they are finding out which is valid.

Either LQ is scum, or your premise that his information is real is a false premise because the only motivation that makes sense for someone with information is that he's attempting to narrow down the setup, which to me seems like a pretty big risk for the possibility of a tiny gain. I think that he was probably bullshitting with the cop stuff.

[Rautherdir]

Probably. He's the IC, it was likely a conversation starter.