Newbie 1756: Balloon (Game Over)

[NorskaBlue]

@Mo'Tweet: I'd have to weigh up the arguments behind the vote. At this stage of the game, I'm not going to go along with any lynches unless I believe it is correct, and agree with the evidence backing it. We have time, lets use it.

[borkjerfkin]

Votecount 3.2

[5] Not Voting (Accountant, Manuel87, Morning Tweet, NorskaBlue, Loopdan)

With 5 alive, it is 3 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-12-27 08:30:00)

[Accountant]

VLA 36 hours. I absolutely hate to ghost you guys during LyLo, especially as the IC, but I have an important debate tournament.

[Loopdan]

I don't have any kind of grasp on this game. I've read everything, taken notes, and still don't have any real solid reads. I think Accountant is most likely scum and Manuel most likely town, but those reads are not real strong.

If the rest of you want me to replace out so you can have someone more motivated in my slot, I will oblige. But I know that just slows the game down more, so I'm willing to stick it out, too, if you'd prefer.

[Morning Tweet]

Loopdan, could you point to a post or two of Manuel's that pings town?

If Manuel is town I'd have to admit defeat on my Norska read, most likely.

[Accountant]

Loopdan, why am I scum? You said you suspected me for not dying. Is that the extent of your reasoning, or do you have more?

[Loopdan]

I'll start with Accountant. From my notes:

333 - Acct doesn’t comment on WCSBO’s soft cop claim?
358 - Acct TRs Tran and tweet, which kinda looks convenient
379 - Accountant finally tells WCSBO to stop discussing this. Waaay too late.
492 - Acct puts Misa at L-1 and is (acts?) surprised that he didn’t already have a vote down.
509 - Transc says Acct is giving heebie jeebies. I agree!
571 - Acct doesn’t see Misa as town. Still wants the lynch. How does Acct not see Misa is town at this point?
596 - Acct complains he is SCFWR
622 - Acct acting(?) like he doesn’t know WCSBO is cop

It did get better after this...
659 - Acct’s towniest post this game
Page 27 Acct is turning on the scum-hunting
675 - Manuel looking town
676 - Acct. agrees

My earlier suspicions coupled with survival make me pretty suspicious of Accountant. I've also not seen Accountant tunneling here, which I've seen before from town!Accountant.

[Accountant]

Regarding 333, I felt that what WCS did was already letting the cat out of the bag. Either the mafia is competent enough to pick up on it, and there's no point telling him to stop talking, or they're not, in which case it's better not to draw attention to it. I felt that the possibility of the latter was strong enough to refrain from commenting, especially since this is a newbie. Furthermore, I don't have any extra motivation to do this as scum. If I want to point it out for towncred, then I'd definitely do it ASAP. But if I want to not say anything and silently kill WCS at night, there's no reason for me to give a delayed stop in 379.

What do you mean convenient? In 358, both were fairly obvious town to me. Do you think that having obvious reads is scummy behavior?

492 - How is this scummy? Given that I've been pushing Misa pretty hard in the lead up to that, it can't be that I was scum who was keeping their options open and not making a committed push.

509 - Expand! Heebie jeebies don't come from nowhere. I'm more than happy to engage with you on this, but a flat "they're giving me heebie jeebies" is very difficult to talk about.

571 - Because at that point Misa had done nothing that was town in my eyes.

596 - What is SCFWR?

622 - Yes, I am. Would you prefer I come out and say "hey guys, WCS is a PR. I guess we know who's going to die at night, winly face"? Especially with the doctor outed?

I've also not seen Accountant tunneling here, which I've seen before from town!Accountant.

Firstly this is a bad way of using meta; you can't seriously believe I tunnel like clockwork when I'm town and don't tunnel when I'm scum. Secondly, I pushed Charloux pretty hard D1.

[Manuel87]

I'll start with Accountant. From my notes:

333 - Acct doesn’t comment on WCSBO’s soft cop claim?
358 - Acct TRs Tran and tweet, which kinda looks convenient
379 - Accountant finally tells WCSBO to stop discussing this. Waaay too late.
492 -

Acct puts Misa at L-1 and is (acts?) surprised that he didn’t already have a vote down.

509 - Transc says Acct is giving heebie jeebies. I agree!
571 - Acct doesn’t see Misa as town. Still wants the lynch. How does Acct not see Misa is town at this point?
596 - Acct complains he is SCFWR
622 - Acct acting(?) like he doesn’t know WCSBO is cop

It did get better after this...

I agree with this. Especially the part about the Misa vote.
Didnt manage to read the full isos yet but for now i think Accountant is more likely scum then Tweet.

[borkjerfkin]

NorskaBlue was prodded.

[NorskaBlue]

Sorry. That'll be the last time I promise.

596 - What is SCFWR

At a guess, I'd say its something like 'scum for what reason'.

[Morning Tweet]

Loopdan, showing why Manuel is town is incredibly important for me.

Norska, do you still think it is most likely Accountant and Loopdan are town together?

Manuel, 492 is your favourite scum!Accountant post, right? In your own words, what's scummy about it? Perhaps I'm just not getting it.

Accountant, do you have any views, read-wise, that you'd be willing to share? I know I could probably infer you'd like a Manuel/Tweet lynch, but is this the case?

[Accountant]

Well, a Manuel/Tweet is the obvious interpretation. What I really find myself going back and forth about is Loopdan. At times he seems very townie - at others he seems clueless, or even scummy. I'm very interested as to why he seems to be universally townread.

@Manuel: What do you have to say about my addressing why I don't think 492 was scummy?

[Manuel87]

Manuel, 492 is your favourite scum!Accountant post, right? In your own words, what's scummy about it? Perhaps I'm just not getting it.

Its not the post its what lead to that post. Accountant was doing little pushes without joining the wagon. When Transcend pointed that out, post 492 and a vote followed.
The main reason why i was scumreading Accountant though was how hard he pushed Misa when his only reasoning for her being scum was PoE.

Though i agree with Loopdan that his day 2 was better. Plus thatsit flipping town actually takes away one of the reasons i scumread him day 2.
Accountants other PoE reads day 1 were thatsit and Norska btw. Day 2 he joined the wagon on thatsit. The only one he never pushed or joined a wagon on was Norska.

@Accountant: As i said its not the post itself its what lead to the post. You not voting looks scummy.
Saying you just forgot to vote is something we cant prove but the fact remains that it happened.

[Accountant]

The main reason why i was scumreading Accountant though was how hard he pushed Misa when his only reasoning for her being scum was PoE.

You make it sound like PoE is a very weak reasoning. Personally I think that PoE is a very powerful tool and an extremely strong method of catching scum. Since it's easier for town to look scum than for scum to look town, it's far easier to identify people you're confident are townies than people you're confident are scum. Therefore, we can see how PoE is a very useful tool, and it's only natural for me to apply it in that situation.

[NorskaBlue]

Norska, do you still think it is most likely Accountant and Loopdan are town together?

It seems reasonable. Accountant is still town to me. Loops ISO is pretty mixed, a few good points, a few less so, but I'm still pretty sure Transcend was town and Loop took his slot.

The only one he never pushed or joined a wagon on was Norska.

Accountant never voted for me I don't think, but they weren't exactly skipping over me either. Accountant was pretty active in holding me accountable (pun intended) for my mishap on day one.

Not sure I buy 492 being scummy. If Accountant was scum I feel they would've been a bit more discreet than that.

[Loopdan]

@MT-- I'll get on my laptop sometime today and do the Manuel write-up.

SCFWR is "scum caught for wrong reason." But that's a tell I've seen backfire, so I'm not giving it much weight. Keep in mind those are my notes on Accountant's posts, not an attempt at presenting an airtight case.

[Accountant]

SCFWR is "scum caught for wrong reason." But that's a tell I've seen backfire, so I'm not giving it much weight. Keep in mind those are my notes on Accountant's posts, not an attempt at presenting an airtight case.

I mean, sure, scum caught for wrong reason is a legitimate tell in many circumstances. In that case I'd like to know why you interpreted my post as scum caught for wrong reasons rather than town getting wagoned for wrong reasons.

[Loopdan]

Looking at it now it's only SCFWR if I presuppose you are scum, which I was reading you as when I read that post.

[borkjerfkin]

Votecount 3.3

[5] Not Voting (Accountant, Manuel87, Morning Tweet, NorskaBlue, Loopdan)

With 5 alive, it is 3 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-12-27 08:30:00)

[Accountant]

What are your other reads Loop?

[Loopdan]

My notes on Manuel are sparse. I think I got to town!Manuel based on lack of questionable posts and POE. Sorry, Tweet. I know you'd like more than that.

Gun to my head, the scum-team is Accoutant/Norska.

[Accountant]

I think that I clearly explained why I thought your reasons for me being scum were not good in 907. Did you think my explanation was insufficient, and if so, where?

[Loopdan]

@Accountant-- I admit my reasons for reading you as scum aren't great. I think I've been clear that it isn't a very strong read, but it's the best I have. I welcome your attempt to convince me that someone else if scummier.

[borkjerfkin]

Morning Tweet was prodded.