Is it fair to say that you don't feel strongly in your ability to scum hunt but you feel that you can just find town and win the game with a solid town circle? @gamma
In post 256, Gamma Emerald wrote:@Mewtaph do you still want me to explain reads, if so which ones?
Tell me more about your VVD townread. I think that's one of your most original thoughts that definitely needs to be expanded on.
He suspects me because I townread him. I know that Townies get concerned when people TR them on weak reasoning, because they think the scum is using outside info.
<Embrace The Void>
“A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all...”
In post 233, Gamma Emerald wrote:The way ny used meta doesn't feel like a scum use, also the fact he went back after realizing his analysis was off.
You're going to have been more specific than that. This is very very vague.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
. I'm asking why you seem to not be fighting very hard against a lynch you've acknowledge yourself as suboptimal. Yes, it's not the worst lynch in the world, there's still a chance of DBW being scum. But any reasonable town who wants to win does not want "merely passable" lynches. They want the
best possible lynch
every single day. There is absolutely 0 reason for you as town to not care that the lynch that we are having is not the best possible lynch unless you don't care about town executing the best possible lynch. And only scum has that kind of thinking.
Hey Accountant, what's stopping that thought process just being town!nydus thinking along the lines of
"I'll let the lurker wagon play out first and analyze it instead because I sure as hell am not going to stop it, I don't townread him."?
What I'm seeing right now with nydus and you is that I don't see scum!nydus playing like this. And the biggest thing that sticks out to me is the way Accountant attacking nydus reminds me a lot of my first game.
Similar to my game, nydus responds with what looks to me what is legitimate confusion and "I honestly don't have all the answers right now," but still an underlying aggro tone back at Accountant.
Game Link (me vs goodmorning): http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=68228
Very similar to me, he doesn't like how Accountant is ignoring him and moving his attention elsewhere and reads this as scum. Given how similar and just straight up how much I can relate to nydus' play right now, I think this is a TvT. (If anything I think that this interaction) If either of you legitimately still think either of you are still scum, please break it down into a list of sorts that I can poke holes at; this reminds me wayyy too much about my first game that I cannot ignore it. And I will push this agenda until both of you accept it.
Btw, I generally hate votes where the underlying reasoning is "I don't see town mentality behind this" and some shitty scumtells that really just seem like stretches, etc, I've been on the receiving end of that bs too many times. (and funnily enough, it usually comes from town)
Now, on the flip side, I agree with the 3 scum thing, I didn't like that. But this is no way changes my townread on nydus.
In post 261, Mewtaph wrote:"I'll let the lurker wagon play out first and analyze it instead because I sure as hell am not going to stop it, I don't townread him."?
I mean, sure, that's fine. But then why does he go the trouble of pointing out how awful the DBW wagon is compared to me - and why is he sitting there talking about "when DBW flips"?
See, I get that telling someone they're scum for having scum mentality in their posts is utter BS. But this is kinda different - he's taking actions that town have no reason to take and scum have every reason to take. That signals his alignment pretty strongly to me.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
In post 261, Mewtaph wrote:"I'll let the lurker wagon play out first and analyze it instead because I sure as hell am not going to stop it, I don't townread him."?
I mean, sure, that's fine. But then why does he go the trouble of pointing out how awful the DBW wagon is compared to me - and why is he sitting there talking about "when DBW flips"?
See, I get that telling someone they're scum for having scum mentality in their posts is utter BS. But this is kinda different - he's taking actions that town have no reason to take and scum have every reason to take. That signals his alignment pretty strongly to me.
It looked like he was just using hypothetical situations, "If X happens, then Y." It still looks like nydushermain's mind is still focused on your wagon - now why he went so far to talk about positions in the wagon and only considering when DBW flips scum and not town instead of going all the way if he wanted to take that path, I have no idea.
In post 263, Mewtaph wrote:It still looks like nydushermain's mind is still focused on your wagon
I'm not convinced about this. He's spent as much time talking about who he'd lynch if/when DBW flips than actually trying to kill me.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
In post 263, Mewtaph wrote:It still looks like nydushermain's mind is still focused on your wagon
I'm not convinced about this. He's spent as much time talking about who he'd lynch if/when DBW flips than actually trying to kill me.
Hmm, that's probably due to the lack of traction he gained on your wagon. I think he has confidence in your wagon, but not enough confidence that he's going to go around to every active player on the read list and go "hey, look at my case on Accountant, he's looking really scummy right now", but rather, a select few. I think there was a post where he asked Pepcho to vote with him.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
Why he made his first post concerning DBW in the first place. If you look at the first post he makes on DBW, it looks and feels like a standalone that he'd leave by itself if you didn't vote him straight afterwards.
Right, and I'm struggling to understand why he would expand that standalone into more stuff about DBW, as town, rather than refocusing on me. I also think that the post as a standalone is itself scummy - it's lining up lynches.
PEdit: Why do you feel that's particularly genuine? It's not that hard to fake.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
Yes, it could be scum lining up lynches. I still think it looks like he took making a hypothetical too far and it blew up in his face, and no, I'm not arguing that as a standalone that it is townie. The aftermath is what reminds me of a situation I've encountered myself.
That bit feels genuine because it felt like a "LOL what, I'm not lining up lynches at all, you've got me all wrong", the important thing to note here is not that he because said those two words and how I read it, but how it seeps into the rest of his response posts.
Okay I think we're talking past each other a little bit at this point.
Let me summarize my case.
WHY IS NYDUSHER SCUM:
- lines up lynches
- says he wants to lynch me over DBW but looks like he doesn't really care
- tries to pass off what is essentially a gut read as a legitimate read
Now, your turn.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
The easiest way to understand why I think nydus is town here is to take a look at the game link here. If you can show me how that doesn't apply here, then I'll reconsider on a larger scale, but my head is definitely still in the ballpark of nydus leaning town here.
For your points:
Maybe. I'll admit that this possibility exists, but for the sake of argument I'll say it isn't. This looks like a hypothetical by nydus blown out of proportion to me, because of how the "no, I'm not lining up lynches, no I'm not even that confident on you being scum" tone I get from his posts. For example, I feel like you skipped over his post 208, when that was a good post to take a step back and think about nydus being possible town.
He's stated multiple times in thread that he's not completely sure of his read on you, this could be an explanation of why it looks like he doesn't care/seems unsure. This is a valid point, he says "w/e because he can still be scum", now I'd prefer for a less pressure filled environment to question him in rather than someone voting him and questioning him at the same time.
Not sure what this is referring to. His read on you? Fine, but he later admits that he has no idea what he's doing.
Either he's a really smart scum at articulating what his underlying thoughts would be if he were town or he
In post 272, Mewtaph wrote:The easiest way to understand why I think nydus is town here is to take a look at the game link here.
I get that "Mewtaph did this last time and he was town", but you haven't showed me:
a) Why this is exclusive to town - ie. why this is done as town but not done as scum
b) Why you feel it's a consistent pattern enough to give hard townreads on rather than a one off thing.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
