Large Normal 199: L'Hôtel Pleuvoir (Fin)

[Gamma Emerald]

The Alisae thing was an attempt at having in-thread mason like thing I saw someone once do with my own twist on it. What I'm doing with Titus is not buddying. I thought my post about VCA showed that.

I just told people to stop giving reads list when everyone wanted to suddenly do them. I'm not trying to please anyone.

What Alisae thing?

[CloudKicker]

Not avaible until 23th/24th

[CloudKicker]

Guys literraly stop talking about sk, no one cares about prefil stuff like this, we lynch for individual + infos

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I also said I'm approaching this game differently and once we all get on the same page and get some flips, we can start forming that town block.

pedit: Kyouko and Ty seem to think I'm buddying so I'm addressing that.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What's the issue that you have then? Let's resolve it.

I want you to give a solid assessment of Alisae, all on your own.

Spoiler: I did that a long time ago, she's still scum

I am specifically talking about http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67071

I can't think of any games where town Titus ignores me and then tries to wave off my vote as vindictive or something.

I'm reading this Street Fighter mafia Titus + Nero combined ISO and I don't think this is the same situation. Looks like you had a real reason to push her in that game, where she was contradicting herself in a couple of places about a wagon on Beeboy and where she wasn't defending her TR or something like that. I don't usually look at past games as evidence but I decided to this time for reasons.

Alisae, Titus, Gamma: What are your reads on the other 2 players in this list?

VOTE: Alisae
This looks scum, the buddying is stinky and she continues to sit around asking others for their opinions on situations. I don't like the show of solidarity with the Aj wagon to so quickly jump off of it. Too much fence-sitting and sheeping from this slot, and is now not voting 34 pages in.

What about not voting is scummy to you?

Not voting as town implies you have no serious scumreads. 34 pages in town should have enough reads to either sheep a wagon that is comprised of townreads or to push a strong scumread.

I noticed you voted Gamma as soon as I accused you, so I checked back on your old Gamma vote and came up with this:

Titus are ya able to articulate what those feelings are exactly?

VOTE: GammaEmerald
I'll just leave this here until I'm satisfied with you.

You moved your vote pretty quick after this to Nero when they started pushing Titus. Not sure if it's buddying town or chainsawing for your partner but either way it points to you being scum.

Okay but your read is swayed a bit too easily.

Ditto, this has seemingly been the case with all of your reads so far. You are forming reads to conform with popular belief imo. You 180d on Transcend really fast and sheeped him when me and Titus followed him. You also earlier arbitrarily TRed him for not liking walls, then went to vote him immediately when he started a wagon on Aj. After I voted Aj and Transcend called your vote on him stupid you flipped and sheeped him.

Okay but who said I fully believed in lynching you?

So, do you, or don't you fully believe in lynching the player you are now currently voting, and why?

What about not voting is scummy to you?

Not voting as town implies you have no serious scumreads. 34 pages in town should have enough reads to either sheep a wagon that is comprised of townreads or to push a strong scumread.

This is fair. In that case I'ma quickly do my reads real quickly. But I wanna see what Tywin has to say to Titus before I decide to vote him, cause right now I have good reason to, it's just I know Tywin, and I feel like I can identify if he is town or not.

So if you have good reason to vote Tywin and are only voting Gamma for pressure, why not vote the player you are more suspicious of? From what I've heard you have one game of experience with Tywin where you were both town and I don't think this is enough to be as confident as you seem to be in sorting Tywin.

I noticed you voted Gamma as soon as I accused you, so I checked back on your old Gamma vote and came up with this:

Titus are ya able to articulate what those feelings are exactly?

VOTE: GammaEmerald
I'll just leave this here until I'm satisfied with you.

You moved your vote pretty quick after this to Nero when they started pushing Titus. Not sure if it's buddying town or chainsawing for your partner but either way it points to you being scum.

A couple of questions. A. Do you think Nero saying that Titus is scum without reading what he missed seem wierd to you? To me it seemed like he didn't even care about what happened prior. He had no new reasons to think that Titus was scum until after I started questioning him, which he and Titus then supplied the reasons while that was happening.
B. How do you know it's not just my playstyle? Because it is, you want a game where most of the time I defended someone else it was a chainsaw defence and I was town? Tywin was in that game too.
C. What do you see Titus as currently?
Because if you see her as town, then me chainsawing someone you think is town does not make sense to me. Or this whole line could just be a line filled with retarded logic.

A. I reread this exchange just in case and I think Nero is towny to continue to push his strongest SR. I understand that Titus doesn't agree with why he's pushing her, and could see her reaction to the push as towny. It's still very dismissive but I think this is the result of a personality quirk in Titus. He isn't ignoring the rest of the game either, he's catching up as he discusses his Titus SR. See 831.
B. I don't know if it's your playstyle or not, which is why I'm voting you. I'm not going to assume that you always play anti-town (buddying, sheeping, handing out excessive TRs) when you're town based off of one game I didn't even participate in.
C. Titus is probably town. Even if she is scum though, your actions revolving around her could be seen as a chainsaw defence. I'm more inclined to think you're buddying town!Titus.

Okay but your read is swayed a bit too easily.

Ditto, this has seemingly been the case with all of your reads so far. You are forming reads to conform with popular belief imo. You 180d on Transcend really fast and sheeped him when me and Titus followed him. You also earlier arbitrarily TRed him for not liking walls, then went to vote him immediately when he started a wagon on Aj. After I voted Aj and Transcend called your vote on him stupid you flipped and sheeped him.

Okay but who said I fully believed in lynching you?

So, do you, or don't you fully believe in lynching the player you are now currently voting, and why?

LOL that last part. But I am mostly voting Gamma for pressure. However when it comes to Gamma, I'll stay on this wagon until I see them play the game. Much like why I hopped on the AJ wagon. I wanna see him play the game, I wanna see him give analysis on people. I want to see him do town things.
I will lynch Gamma if he doesn't do anything townish.

Seems like you're discussing a policy lynch 2 days into D1. Are you talking about deadline lynching him or sooner?

Meh, might as well update my reads on nerds now.
{Titus, Trans, Cadb, Elbrin, Me, SSBM, Lapsa, Cloudd} <--- I think these people are town.
{Nero}
{Aj}
{Nos, Moz, Sonia} <--- Null/can go either way/need to re-look over and revist.
{Pine, Uzi} <--- Reads that are getting stale
{Tywin, Gamma} <--- My lynch pool.

Lots of players in your top tier, which is the most town to you?

@Titus - My bad, didn't realize you'd already been asked.

@Alisae - "Me because of my role pm says so." Serious answer please. If you think that was a serious answer then who's your second-strongest TR?
pedit: jk

@Titus:
Town - Titus, Transcend
Townlean - Elbirn, Cabd, Cloud

----D1 Lynch Line----

Townlean - Sonia, Nero Cain
Nulltown - Pine, Nosferatu, mozamis
Nullscum - Gamma, Lapsa, Aj
Scumlean - LUV, Tywin
Scum - Alisae

I usually don't do these, but I'm assuming you asked me for a good reason. There are 2 townleans above and below my lynch line because some of these are in my no vote zone and others are not. Cabd would be townlean on the bottom side of the line if he wasn't in your list of top TRs.

And if I was scum, what would scum me have to gain from chainsaw defending Titus?

Towncred...

I'm not going through the last 80 pages to pull quotes on the buddying, and the fence-sitting is something she was doing early on before her reads started to meld into popular belief. I thought you were around when all this happened?

[Tywin Lannister]

Votecount 1.10

Lapsa 7 (Pine, CloudKicker, Alisae, Titus, Gamma Emerald, Lil Uzi Vert, ssbm_Kyouko)
Titus 4 (Nero Cain, mozamis, Tywin Lannister, Syryana)
Alisae 1 (Aj The Epic)
Tywin Lannister 1 (Lapsa)
CloudKicker 1 (Nosferatu)

Not Voting 3 (Cabd, xSoniaNevermindx, Elbirn)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline for Day 1 is December 30 at 11 AM Eastern.

While the mod at least exists now, he will nonetheless be kinda-on-vacation for the next week.

Here is my hangup with Lapsa being scum... Namely a few SRS on the wagon. If Lapsa does flip scum, I can't see them all bussing here. It wouldn't make sense. AJ/Nosferatu/Sonia/Elbirn will need closer looks regardless. I get bigger scum vibes from Nosferatu/AJ than I do Elibirn/Sonia though.

So why hasn't anyone questioned Nosferatu on that Cloud vote? That just looks bad. AJ on Alisae over ever mentioning Uzi looks bad IMO. I'd assume they'd both be scummy in AJ's mind considering they both have done the same things (albeit to lesser degrees). I honestly like everyone on the Titus wagon, but that's not going to go through today. Sonia had kinda disappeared, so I don't know where to lean with her.

The real problem I have is that the Lapsa wagon contains enough SRs that it gives me pause, but nothing Lapsa has done objectively makes me think 'town' whatsoever. So it's my own bias due to SRs that make me uneasy about him more than anything else. If Lapsa is scum, then they can't all be scum with him. That's too many votes for a proper bus.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yeah his Cloud vote is one of the reasons as to why have him as a null-scum after I reread his ISO.

[Tywin Lannister]

Honestly? I'm starting to think Lapsa/AJ/Nosferatu just off their early exchange with Cabd and knowing there's day talk.

[Alisae]

Honestly? I'm starting to think Lapsa/AJ/Nosferatu just off their early exchange with Cabd and knowing there's day talk.

If Nos were scum with these two, his vote on Cloud seems very off unless he's catching up while placing it.
Like, it seems it would be super uncordinated with his scumteam.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I didn't like what he choose to comment on when catching up or his comments about Pine either.

[Tywin Lannister]

Honestly? I'm starting to think Lapsa/AJ/Nosferatu just off their early exchange with Cabd and knowing there's day talk.

If Nos were scum with these two, his vote on Cloud seems very off unless he's catching up while placing it.
Like, it seems it would be super uncordinated with his scumteam.

He voted you when the Lapsa wagon first took off on page 2 or so. Lapsa had voted you too I believe.

And what's uncoordinated there? You think scum will all join the same wagon? I don't. Do you think they'll all bus unless it's a for sure lynch? I don't. The cloud vote looks bad, but it's a placeholder vote. It isn't meant to show conviction. It's not a real scum read. It's just there to have a vote while hopefully not draw any attention. Clouds not getting lynched clearly, so it's a wasted vote.

[Syryana]

VOTE: Nosferatu

Choo choo motherfuckers

[mozamis]

Not properly caught up. But it's the old problem - if a wagon (Lapsa) builds up steam quickly like this, prob means there is scum on it. So I'm liking it less.
Much rather Titus, who I'm pretty sure is scum.

[Aj The Epic]

Honestly? I'm starting to think Lapsa/AJ/Nosferatu just off their early exchange with Cabd and knowing there's day talk.

wat

Tywin, do you feel as if Kyouko on a scum team specifcily with

Lapsa

or not?

wat

Edited. 4am. Need to sleep, probably am not going to sleep anyways.

I honestly haven't and won't look for scum pairings this early. Without a flip of one of them, there's really no point. It's one of the major gripes I had/have with Titus. It's just pointless to look for pairs and tunnel the game into theories that make no sense.

That's why I believe she even put you as the 'SK' on D1, because you don't fit well in her scum pairing theory. Kyouko running with it kind of also points out why pairing anyone on D1 doesn't work. I've always thought it best to find one scum first, at least in large games like this. Find the first one before worrying about more.

Do you have any specific connections between Lapsa/Kyouko though? That's worth looking into regardless, but if it's just Kyouko not voting Lapsa, I don't see a problem with it right now.

[mozamis]

And yeah, that wagon is some bad company.
Lapsa cleared?

[Elbirn]

VOTE: Nosferatu

Choo choo motherfuckers

Fuck you syr I came here to do this

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nosferatu

Dueling scum wagons gogogo

[mozamis]

Why is Lapsa at l-2 again? I want blood but if it's lurker blood I want nosferatu

Agree.
Tbh, I suspect many of the votes on Lpasa, including mine, are based on a vgue impression that he 1) lurked 2) opportunitic vote on Tywin.
But 2)...well, he could be rash town as well, so god knows.

[mozamis]

Hang on, I'm not voting Lapsa. But he was a scum read. You know what I mean!

[xSoniaNevermindx]

Get to this later

[Tywin Lannister]

AJ: I'm not trying to tunnel you three into a team, but it's fine IMO to throw it out there. I like the Nosferatu vote currently. His flip doesn't correlate to your/Lapsa's alignment, but it's a starting point. Frankly, I think you lynch who you think is scum and go from there one at a time. There aren't any double lynches, and it's a waste of time to put a whole lot of stock into scum teams on D1. I still think it's a possibility, but that's not really worth investigating further until someone flips scum. So while I think you believe you caught me in a 'gotcha' moment, I don't agree. I'm not basing the entire game on conf bias trying to prove a team exists pre-flip like some of your TRs have.

VOTE: Nosferatu. I like this vote. I also see Lapsa being probable scum too, but I do feel like Nosferatu is a better bet. All the players on his wagon didn't sit well with me, and even if it was a scum bus, I don't think all scum are on it. I think Nosferatu needs to explain the throwaway vote on Cloud at the very least. It's pretty obvious that cloud isn't getting lynched today, and the reasoning (from what I remember) seemed really weak and pointless.

Yay, a wagon I can really get behind that doesn't make me question all my SRs in doing so.

[Cabd]

I legit lost sleep over this game last night.

Good.. morning, technically?

Pine; yes please do and ASAP

[Tywin Lannister]

Not properly caught up. But it's the old problem - if a wagon (Lapsa) builds up steam quickly like this, prob means there is scum on it. So I'm liking it less.
Much rather Titus, who I'm pretty sure is scum.

I think I've agreed with your reads this game, and I still believe in a scum Titus (inherently conf bias at this point though), but she's not gonna get lynched today. I think that's painfully obvious. I agree with your assessment of the scummish players on the Lapsa wagon too. That's literally the only reason it doesn't sit well with me though. I don't think Lapsa is town, but I definitely don't think Nosferatu is town when you really look at him and the context/timing of his posts. Knowing that there's day talk now (regardless of whether people disbelieve that I didn't see post 400 something for a while), Nosferatu just has some weird timing going on with his content. I need to do a real ISO, but I'm good with his wagon as it stands. I'm surprised it even gained votes tbh, but I like it. N1/D2 is always there to sort the other current scummy players.

Side note: still sick. I actually showed up to work and a couple managers took one look at me and sent me home. I guess that means I'll have time to invest in the game today. Don't think I'll be sleeping the whole day like yesterday, so I'll try to ISO Nosferatu and post a clearer case on him, since I'm mostly going off of memory atm. I should probably do the same for Lapsa to see if either is a better/worse wagon.

[Titus]

Speed of a wagon has never been AI of the wagonee. Mozamis might as well be saying Titus is on it, so I will not bus.

Also, not found of doing dual scum wagon nonsense. If both wagons are on scum, it fractures town and makes scum harder to lynch. If one is on town, it makes the one that's on scum harder to go through.

Pretty sure the way Tywin jumped onto this that it is just lurkerbait to save Lapsa.

[Tywin Lannister]

Lol, so it won't take long to ISO Nos. He has 17 total posts in an 80+ page game. He's never been prodded, and nobody has really looked at him much at all. I've seen scum pairs thrown out all over the place, but Nos always enters null/null town in any read lists people give. Is that a case of forgetting he exists, or is it due to scum not wanting him and his obvious lurking (while avoiding prod) to be noticed? Will follow up soon.

[Gamma Emerald]

no stahp
tywin is town