Large Normal 199: L'Hôtel Pleuvoir (Fin)

[Tywin Lannister]

It turned into just gamma scumreading me turning into a sudden snowball
does no one see the issue in this

I'm not caught up at all, but what's your vc? Are you the leading wagon? Sigh... Afk until I read this mess

[xSoniaNevermindx]

I'm not at all but you can tell if you set a spark on me it'll gonna light up pretty dam fast.

[Tywin Lannister]

In post 1842, CloudKicker wrote:
Titus is town, tywin is town, aj looks town, sonia is gut town with pro reads that are just like mine. Sbm might be playing a great scumgame btw, elbirn looks town enough, gamma with the mason comment looks ridiculously town

So Titus, tywin and Aj scum?
I can totally buy that.
Apart from the massive tywin and titus spat. Epic performance if so. I know Titus is capable of that sort of game. Anyone know Tywin's game? Is he good enough to pull of that kind of stuff?

Yep. He is definitely good enough to pull that shit off.

Read this game for an example:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=69290
We spent the whole game scumreading each other. We were both townies.

Elbrin, if Tywin is town. Describe his push on Sonia earlier. Because that feels forced to me.

How does it 'feel' forced. Do you even know what that means? You're saying useless crap in a shade throwing attempt, while not actually staying WHY you think it's forced. This is scummy. Don't do it unless you can give reasons. I take it that you're scum reading me after seeing posts like the above consistently from you. Am I correct?

Here's my question to you: you claim vig yet didn't question Syryana on his claim ever. Why? When Titus even points out how extremely unlikely it is to ever have two vig's in the same game (plus there weren't 3 NKs), you STILL don't question Syryana. Why? This is wrong and completely scummy. You counter claimed and don't push the original claimant at all? Not even a single pushback? Again... Why?

[Tywin Lannister]

Literally impossible unless those three plus me are scum

ok, caught up and have calmed slightly.
I'll rescind my rage vote for now. His reason for voting Lapsa sounds OK. Plus, I really want him to be town. He has to be null I guess for a while. But seems more profitabke to concentrate on cloud kikers stuff.

UNVOTE

My run through of Cloudkicker's ISO suggests that he was attacking Gamma, Alisea, Nero and I pretty consistently. There were others, and a few he went back and forth on, but they seemed more a feature of his spazzy nature than serious attacks.

More important is how hard he defended Tywin. That's where my vote is going.

VOTE: Tywin

I'm just gonna keep defending tywin while he continues to ignore my love

It's pretty easy for scum to play peacemaker for town cred when they see a TvT fight. I don't think there was anyone in this game that wanted to see tywin v. Titus continue any longer, and the "protown" move was clearly to try to promote peace

<3 not ignored, but since I TR you, I don't see a point in responding to this stuff really. I'm looking for scum, not super awesome cool guys named Elibrin who are town.

[Tywin Lannister]

If Tywin flips scum, Sonia is town to me.

The reason why I said it felt forced was that he immediately jumped on Sonia about the NK.
I bought it at the time, but I took more time to think about it before I came to the conclusion that it felt forced.
Not to mention Tywin continued to push Sonia when Sonia wasn't responding well to the pressure.
So I could see why you think I'm all over the place with that.

Another push on me from Alisae. Not surprising, but her wanting me lynched over Syryana is disconcerning. She should be pushing hard against the counter claim, yet she ignores him completely in favor of me. Why?

[Tywin Lannister]

If Tywin flips scum, Sonia is town to me.

The reason why I said it felt forced was that he immediately jumped on Sonia about the NK.
I bought it at the time, but I took more time to think about it before I came to the conclusion that it felt forced.
Not to mention Tywin continued to push Sonia when Sonia wasn't responding well to the pressure.
So I could see why you think I'm all over the place with that.

If Tywin flips scum, Sonia is town to me.

The reason why I said it felt forced was that he immediately jumped on Sonia about the NK.
I bought it at the time, but I took more time to think about it before I came to the conclusion that it felt forced.
Not to mention Tywin continued to push Sonia when Sonia wasn't responding well to the pressure.
So I could see why you think I'm all over the place with that.

Do you think it's scummy to push someone cracking under pressure, or..?

Eh, it depends if they're being provacative or not.

But Tywin easily knew that Sonia could not respond well under pressure. She voted me up when I said she was overeacting, and she and Gamma got into some kind of fight.

Another post about me... Like every post Alisae makes has my name in it, even when what she responds to isn't about me. Is this not odd to anyone else???

[Pine]

It sounds like she's pushing a scumread. How strange.

[Tywin Lannister]

Okay so Alisae is confirmed SK. If she was vigi, she'd push against Syryana. She doesn't even want to touch him though, because his flip would destroy her claim. I'm ignoring her for the rest of the game as the obvious SK. It's probably not optimal to lynch her today, but she's only going to NK townies. She killed our cop obviously. Her being in the game only speeds us closer to Lylo, so if she's not the lynch today, then I hope either scum or our real vigi take her out at night. She can't remain in the game for long if town expects a chance to win.

So moving on, I once again am the leading wagon (well, I'm tied). Again, I'm a VC so at this point idgaf enough to fight it. It's inevitable that I'll be lynched sometime soon due to the town leadership currently basing the game off of extremely sub-optimal theories that don't help catch scum whatsoever. Cabd doesn't seem to like scum hunting anyone more so than to just give out inane theories based off of fake crumbs and other non-existent tells. I'd prefer him give actual thoughts on whose scum and follow through with it by questioning those players. He refuses to do that, which means he should not be town leader. I'd even give it to Titus since she's largely reevaluated things, and if Cabd is town gunsmith (likely, but not confirmed, and easy to fake claim with our cop dead), Titus is pretty close to confirmed. IF neither Titus or Cabd are dead by Lylo, then you know they're scum, but save that for a later date.

So Titus, who do you want to lynch? If it is me, then please give me something that says my flip gives town info. If my lynch does NOT give info after I flip town, then why am I getting lynched? That's not optimal play at all. People want me lynched, but they're not seemingly able to understand what it gives town if I flip town. Just wanting me to be scum won't make it true, so people, THINK about it if you are town. If you're scum, then you're gonna fake this shit anyways and my lynch is easy, gives town nothing to work with, and will bring you one step closer to Lylo, so continue as you are scum.

[Tywin Lannister]

It sounds like she's pushing a scumread. How strange.

I honestly believe you're scum. You've added nothing to the game, was on the Lapsa lynch, push for my lynch (I know I'm town) without reason, doesn't think things through about what info my flip will give if it flips town (and it will), doesn't look at Syryana or Alisae both claiming vigi, and has tried to derail the Kyouko wagon by going back to the easy mislynch (me).

What have you done this game that is pro-town Pine? Also, why not question the counter claims at all? What case do you have on me as scum, and if I flip town, what info do you gain from it? Do you not think anything through as a general rule?

[Tywin Lannister]

Btw Pine, you claim to have not read the entire D1, so I hope you have a good reason to SR me. You're playing the 'under the radar' scum very well this game. You're lucky the SK Alisae is helping you out, or I'd think you'd be a great cop investigation.

[Tywin Lannister]

Nobody has even evaluated Pine due to his extreme lurking, and he's been as useless as anyone not named Nosferatu this entire game. He clearly pushes for mislynches based on the Lapsa wagon (and now mine), so nothing he's done has been pro-town. He says a lot of one liners like post 2431 above that add nothing to move the game forward, and he does not scum hunt ever. He would be the definition of scum IMO. If you want to hop on a wagon that gives no info by a flip, at least go on the one that is far more likely to be scum. Pine. He has nobody after him at all. That alone should tell everyone that something is wrong.

[Alisae]

Oh yay a Tywin push -_-

Then we have Alisae NK Uzi for no reason. She killed our cop.

What did his flip tell us? Anything? If not, then why TF was Uzi chosen over original intended targets like nos? Nos' wagon was derailed fast. Scum didn't want it to happen IMO. Alisae was told not to shoot him by Syryana as well. She followed his prodding like a sheep. It got our cop killed. This is ignoring that a vigi shooting N1 is almost always a terrible decision. She's new so I ignore that, but for future reference: vigi's STOP shooting N1 unless it's an obvious scum kill. You'll almost always hit town, and since we HAD a cop, we lose at least one confirmed investigation. Alisae, you did scum's work for them. Why shoot Uzi? You said nos was your target originally. Why change? Why not shoot me? My flip would've given more info and not had wasted another town mislynch. Did you think about it before shooting Uzi? Or did you just listen to whatever Syryana told you with his vigi claim (which you didn't question at all???).

Is the bolded part supposed to be Appeal to Emotion or some shit? Either way, there was no way for me to know that he was cop.

Here's why I shoot Uzi:

For reasoning behind the uzi shot, I was mostly swayed but what a lot of people were saying while Was re-looking over.
Also got the feeling he was trying to whiteknight me.

[Alisae]

In post 1842, CloudKicker wrote:
Titus is town, tywin is town, aj looks town, sonia is gut town with pro reads that are just like mine. Sbm might be playing a great scumgame btw, elbirn looks town enough, gamma with the mason comment looks ridiculously town

So Titus, tywin and Aj scum?
I can totally buy that.
Apart from the massive tywin and titus spat. Epic performance if so. I know Titus is capable of that sort of game. Anyone know Tywin's game? Is he good enough to pull of that kind of stuff?

Yep. He is definitely good enough to pull that shit off.

Read this game for an example:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=69290
We spent the whole game scumreading each other. We were both townies.

Elbrin, if Tywin is town. Describe his push on Sonia earlier. Because that feels forced to me.

How does it 'feel' forced. Do you even know what that means?

You're saying useless crap

in a shade throwing attempt, while not actually staying WHY you think it's forced. This is scummy. Don't do it unless you can give reasons. I take it that you're scum reading me after seeing posts like the above consistently from you. Am I correct?

Here's my question to you: you claim vig yet didn't question Syryana on his claim ever. Why? When Titus even points out how extremely unlikely it is to ever have two vig's in the same game (plus there weren't 3 NKs), you STILL don't question Syryana. Why? This is wrong and completely scummy. You counter claimed and don't push the original claimant at all? Not even a single pushback? Again... Why?

It feels forced because you immediately jump on Sonia about the NK. The timing is sudden and feels forced to me.

I am scumreading you, where do you think my vote is currently.
Also the bolded to me looks as if you're discrediting me. Some scummy person had to do it eventually

[Alisae]

If Tywin flips scum, Sonia is town to me.

The reason why I said it felt forced was that he immediately jumped on Sonia about the NK.
I bought it at the time, but I took more time to think about it before I came to the conclusion that it felt forced.
Not to mention Tywin continued to push Sonia when Sonia wasn't responding well to the pressure.
So I could see why you think I'm all over the place with that.

Another push on me from Alisae. Not surprising, but her wanting me lynched over Syryana is disconcerning. She should be pushing hard against the counter claim, yet she ignores him completely in favor of me. Why?

Idunno, maybe because he hasn't shown up yet?

[mozamis]

Nobody has even evaluated Pine due to his extreme lurking,

Easy tiger. I got interupted during my catch up. But Pine has definitely gone down in my estimation.
He's certainly a possible scummer, he doesn't seem very pro town.

[Alisae]

Okay so Alisae is confirmed SK. If she was vigi, she'd push against Syryana.

She doesn't even want to touch him though, because his flip would destroy her claim. I'm ignoring her for the rest of the game as the obvious SK. It's probably not optimal to lynch her today, but she's only going to NK townies. She killed our cop obviously. Her being in the game only speeds us closer to Lylo, so if she's not the lynch today, then I hope either scum or our real vigi take her out at night. She can't remain in the game for long if town expects a chance to win.

I Can WIFOM the bolded the whole fucking day.
I want him to show up so I can touch him. Like, legit you aren't even considering the fact that he hasn't appeared yet.

[mozamis]

More important is how hard he defended Tywin. That's where my vote is going.

VOTE: Tywin

Going for towncred if tywin flips town?
I defended Tywin too, so did a lot of people.
The guy has to be town.
I will seriously cry if he isn't. I mmean, the guy practically had a nervous breakdown when he was accused of being scum. Jack Nicholson, eat your heart out etc (contemporary reference lol)

V. Strong Town: Me, Cabd, Tywin.

Get back to the fucking game. A couple of jokes were fun, but a page of them is the kind of distraction that led to an 84-page D1.

Not seeing a lot of analysis from you. A few irrrelevant posts.
Beginning to worry that you are cruising off your strong early town read.

[Aj The Epic]

You have Cabd as strong town but not titus.

[mozamis]

Cabd and Titus could be scum together

They could be. How likely do you think it is, though?

[Elbirn]

In fairness to alisae syr hasn't even posted yet this phase

She's confirmed not groupscum, so even if you think she's an sk her suspicions and thoughts are all legitimate; whether we agree with her or not is another matter, but she is a verified trustworthy voice if she's trying to eliminate the scumteam, no? We can call her wrong (I think she is) but we can't say that her ideas are coming from a malicious intent like you inply

Having said that I don't believe syr has a legit counterclaim because he was apparently "joking" and so his flip doesn't Damm alisae. If he were a vig then there should have been a 3rd corpse last night.


Disclaimer: if you can convince me alisae is SK then turbo lynch the fuck out of her regardless, but for now with me being unconvinced of that idc

I also don't agree that someone being not scumread makes them scum (re:pine) but uh he is totally coasting off his early townread

Pedit: so many posts

[Elbirn]

All of that was in response to tywin for the record

[Titus]

VOTE: Mozamis

[mozamis]

Not liking Nero very much.
He's another strong, experienced player who seems to be under performing.

I don't really plan on it.

Another town post from Alisea. She never seems to avoid the questions, she seems to be "free and easy". Innocent.

I mean I was completely wrong about all 3 flips so far

This seems very honest and town.

Shame about losing LUV's PR but he was really hard to place for me and I thought he was scum anyways so that's one less mislynch I'd be inclined to push today.

As does this, and echoes my thinking, and prob anyone who is town.

So SSBM in the town pile.

Then we have Alisae NK Uzi for no reason

Not true. He was lurking and had a whiff of scum. I'm sure pre his flip, she would have got a lot of backing for an Uzi vig.

not quite finished but brb

[Tywin Lannister]

Okay so Alisae is confirmed SK. If she was vigi, she'd push against Syryana.

She doesn't even want to touch him though, because his flip would destroy her claim. I'm ignoring her for the rest of the game as the obvious SK. It's probably not optimal to lynch her today, but she's only going to NK townies. She killed our cop obviously. Her being in the game only speeds us closer to Lylo, so if she's not the lynch today, then I hope either scum or our real vigi take her out at night. She can't remain in the game for long if town expects a chance to win.

I Can WIFOM the bolded the whole fucking day.
I want him to show up so I can touch him. Like, legit you aren't even considering the fact that he hasn't appeared yet.

No you can't. You can't call basic gameplay WIFOM. You aren't following win con for town vigi. Simple. You're SK.

[Alisae]

Also Tywin, I remember you scumreading Uzi origonally. Just thought I mention this.