Undertale Mafia: Friends & Corpses [GAME OVER]

[Almost50]

I think PV is scum and is the SK. If he was truly a BP investigative he would have cleared me up a long as time ago. Hell when creature claimed BP he would check then. The claim is shit.

BP investigative is a reference to YOU. He already claimed DOG SENSOR. You said it was a BS claim. He said (paraphrase): I'm sorry, Math, but that's what I am. Now replace Math with BP investigative. An investigative that also happens to be BP.

Doesn't anybody understand plain English on this site anymore?

[callforjudgement]

Has Math claimed their actual role yet? I thought the investigative action was an invention, not part of Math's role, so it isn't really correct to say that Math's an investigative.

[callforjudgement]

@

Nahdia

: Are you V/LA? You haven't declared it, but you're acting like it.

[Nahdia]

i bought fallout

[Almost50]

@CFJ:

OK, since PV has already responded to you on the mater, and since I'm soon to be lynched, I would like to tell you about my own theory of the "cult" (which isn't "technically" a cult bc they can no longer recruit, but the name makes sense as "those who have been recruited").

So, in my mind, Max would pisk a living player each night to become a member of his cult upon his death. Note that this is a CONDITIONAL RECRUITMENT, i.e. the actual change of alignment does NOT occur until/unless Max is dead.

So, anyone who had been "marked" by max would still flip TOWN as long as Max himself is alive. This also limits the number of his cult greatly because they could be lynched (or NK'd) before Max himself is dead, thus rendering his night action on that particular person as a failure already (well, not technically, but effectively so).

It's strange, I know, but not unheard of. In fact, I seem to have read a setup before in which the Mafia had no"direct" kills each night. Instead, they'd wire a target each night and will choose to detonate at will. After that point they can no longer mark new targets, so it's a one-off massacre if you will.

For more insight you may want to check the "Cultafia" page on the wiki. Only difference is the recruitment didn't happen instantaneously, and the "culted" didn't know about their alignment change till after Max was lynched. Anyone who had been marked by Max before but dies before his lynch still died as TOWN.

[JaeReed]

^ that was also my theory lol. Delayed culting.

[Giovanni il Pellegrino]

@CFJ:

OK, since PV has already responded to you on the mater, and since I'm soon to be lynched, I would like to tell you about my own theory of the "cult" (which isn't "technically" a cult bc they can no longer recruit, but the name makes sense as "those who have been recruited").

So, in my mind, Max would pisk a living player each night to become a member of his cult upon his death. Note that this is a CONDITIONAL RECRUITMENT, i.e. the actual change of alignment does NOT occur until/unless Max is dead.

So, anyone who had been "marked" by max would still flip TOWN as long as Max himself is alive. This also limits the number of his cult greatly because they could be lynched (or NK'd) before Max himself is dead, thus rendering his night action on that particular person as a failure already (well, not technically, but effectively so).

It's strange, I know, but not unheard of. In fact, I seem to have read a setup before in which the Mafia had no"direct" kills each night. Instead, they'd wire a target each night and will choose to detonate at will. After that point they can no longer mark new targets, so it's a one-off massacre if you will.

For more insight you may want to check the "Cultafia" page on the wiki. Only difference is the recruitment didn't happen instantaneously, and the "culted" didn't know about their alignment change till after Max was lynched. Anyone who had been marked by Max before but dies before his lynch still died as TOWN.

Why Maxous couldn't simply pick his cult's members upon being lynched with the number of "cult members" being analogous to the number of remaining players? The whole marking-then-switching progress seems complicated for the sake of being complicated.

[callforjudgement]

OK, since PV has already responded to you on the mater, and since I'm soon to be lynched, I would like to tell you about my own theory of the "cult" (which isn't "technically" a cult bc they can no longer recruit, but the name makes sense as "those who have been recruited").

I've considered that. It'd be basically impossible to balance, though, and I wouldn't expect most mods to try it or most reviewers to allow it. It'd make much more sense from a game balance point of view if there were a fixed number of "cult" chosen upon Maxous' death.

In either case, though, where are the unclaimed kills coming from? Is there a killing faction separate from Maxous?

[Skullduggery]

Day 7, Vote Count #5

Current Vote Count:

(0)

SirCakez

(1)

Giovanni il Pellegrino -- BigYoshiFan

(0)

MathBlade

(0)

PeregrineV

(0)

Nahdia

(0)

callforjudgement

(0)

Ankamius

(0)

BigYoshiFan

(4)

Almost50 -- Almost50, PeregrineV, MathBlade, SirCakez

(0)

JaeReed

Not Voting:

Giovanni il Pellegrino, Nahdia, Ankamius, JaeReed, callforjudgement

With 10 votes available, it takes 6 votes to hammer.

Day 7 Will End on Wednesday, January 11th, at 7 p.m. Eastern Time
Countdown: (expired on 2017-01-11 19:00:00)

[callforjudgement]

VOTE: almost50
I still don't buy the PV claim but this is fine too

VOTE: SirCakez

This vote, and the fact it's coming from SirCakez of all people, makes me

really

uncomfortable. This is mostly gut, but thinking about it, I guess the reason is related to "well, we've had wagons turning into something akin to quickhammers frequently this game, and putting A50 at L-2 is a good way for SirCakez to increase the chance that the day ends without discussion".

FWIW, I think it's highly likely that A50 will flip town, although I can see why people want the lynch and am not sure if I care enough to try to stop it. However, I'd like much better reasons from people joining that wagon; if you're going to lynch A50, don't do so thoughtlessly and make sure you have good reasons. (Note that pressurevoting A50 is entirely pointless; if you're voting on

that

wagon, it's for a lynch.)

[Almost50]

In either case, though, where are the unclaimed kills coming from? Is there a killing faction separate from Maxous?

It could be a Serial Killer. I'm not sure I buy the "Scum group" theory anymore.

As for the my theory of how Max picked his targets, it is not that hard to balance. If you have a cult that cannot kill (the normal cult) with a Scum group OR a Serial Killer, it is fairly balanced, and the longer the Cult Leader lives the greater their chance is of winning. Right? Now if the leader got lynched at any point the recruitment ability is lost. Agreed?

This IS the dame thing. He recruits more people the longer he lives. When he dies the recruitment stops. The only difference is If they were instantaneously recruited they'd stand for each other. In this case they didn't because they were Town and did not change alignments until he was lynched, so that WEAKENS the cult.

Let's say he recruited A, B, C & D on the 4 nights he was alive. If they all are still alive then we have a 4-member cult; just the way it would have been if they were instantaneously culted. However, there IS a chance that A was -say- Zakk, who got NK'd by the SK on the same night (N1), thus flipped a Townie and Maxous ended up with nobody in his faction. Let's say Shiro was B, and he got lynched before Maxous. This means Shiro died as a Townie, and we only have a 2-member group left. This is a weaker version of the cult concept. It could be that we're looking for just ONE culted player + the SK and that's it.

I'm not saying this MUST be the case, but it's one to consider. Letting Max choose upon his death gives him a MUCH stronger position, since many have already claimed and reads were fully developed. However one pick per night keeps him in the dark. For instance, he wouldn't know whom to recruit on N1 because it was a mess and he couldn't predict who the PRs are nor could he know for sure who would be lynched on D2, D3 and so forth.

Also the SK would/should keep the recruitment process limited because he works on his own and is aiming to kill everyone regardless. A Serial Killer is usually unrecruitable by cult, so he is a menace to them as much as he is to the Town.

Just keep that thought at the back of your mind for now. IF this is correct, then Cakez is clear (of being culted) because he didn't lose his ability to give out stuff, but can still be the SK. Nahdia, on the other hand, is a prime suspect for being culted in that scenario.

P-edit:

Just let the day end, mate. If it's a cult + SK then JR becomes DEATHPROOF. The SK won't shoot him and lose his killing power. Ank won't shoot him and lose his Vig ability, and there are no other killing roles. He can't e lynched either because he has been prove both Vanilla and Town (the latter mattes most since it came after Maxous died).

[JaeReed]

I mean I'm fine with either a Cakez lynch or A50 giving me his ability but honestly I really think A50 is town, in which case we're deliberately lynching a townie which still bugs me slightly. Especially given I think A50 generally has better reads than I do as town. Objectively he's better for town than I am in terms of what he contributes, but I don't know if that outweighs the Innocent Child equivalent that I am.

[Almost50]

It does. Trust me. We're at a point of the game where making you unkillable is worth the sacrifice.

[MathBlade]

Has Math claimed their actual role yet? I thought the investigative action was an invention, not part of Math's role, so it isn't really correct to say that Math's an investigative.

I am BP. That is it.

I am a low poster on weekends especially when I have Shadowrun tomorrow and I am helping a friend move.

[MathBlade]

It does. Trust me. We're at a point of the game where making you unkillable is worth the sacrifice.

Yep. I like this.

*thumbs up*

*hugs you*

V/LA til Monday

[SirCakez]

No. I was not ignoring the new faction I am looking for the killer that has been ravaging our lands. Because there is still only one kill a night then if we can eliminate that life becomes so much sweeter.

So then you get that all of the "clear" people are probably not clear yeah?

Cakey please give me an item tonight. But please don't say what it is or hint at it. I think it is important for night 8.

Uh OK I'll try to guess which one you want

Nosferatu wasn't in this game?
(inb4 Almost calls this a dumb question)

You be the judge of yourself on that one.

10 Nosferatu

(Riverman, Town Modified Bookie & Dead Thread Transporter)

Was Killed on Night 2

Do you think it i is dumb or not to be playing the game

from the start

and not knowing who IS playing the game

from the start

with you?

I'll reiterate: Neither your slot nor Nosferatu's were replaced during this game. You both started the game. You both were on the starting list.

Now the fact you don't even care to know who's playing tells me you're not interested in sorting out anything, because you just want them dead either way. I'm thus calling YOU the Serial Killer of this game. I don't care if you have "another role" in addition to that. I've heard of a game where the COP was also the SK on THIS SITE, so I'm not taking your inventory thing for an indication of your alignment. Capisce?

This is idiotic
Those posts you quoted later on of me talking with Nos were over TWO months ago. I'm pretty sure at this point no one who was here at game start can remember it all perfectly.
And calling me SK for having a shitty memory is just lol
So this bogus push just solidifies my scumread on you
CFJ - if I wanted a quickhammer on Almost, why not wait until he was L-2 or L-1? Besides, it looks like we've (mostly) come to a consensus on Jae hammering Almost anyway.

[callforjudgement]

Currently the way I see things going, SirCakez is, if not confirmed as town somehow (and I'm not sure we have any way left to confirm him other than Gio's shot which will take far too long), most likely going to get lynched tomorrow. I'd say they're more of a near-certain lynch than A50 is. So if people generally agree with both lynches and are just looking to order them, I'd rather lynch SirCakez first. It seems much more likely that we'd get a scumflip there than by lynching A50, and we really badly need a scumflip at this point (both to make sense of the setup, and simply because it places us closer to winning).

PV, would you be willing to unvote A50? (A50, would you be willing to unvote yourself?) I know I said I wasn't planning to fight this lynch, but I changed my mind; pseudodeathproofing a townie really isn't worth spending a mislynch, especially as we have no idea how many mislynches we have left.

PEDIT: @SirCakez: Quickhammers are most effective when people don't hold you responsible for them. Given the number of people who either a) are being pressured to hammer by the rest of the thread, or b) have hammer-dependent roles, putting someone at L-1 in this game is very close to hammering, so placing them at L-2 is the best it's possible to do to increase the chances of someone's lynch whilst being able to blame it on someone else.

Also, I had a thought:
@

BigYoshiFan

: What happens if you

attempt to

hammer someone? (I know you're not capable of hammering, but what happens if you try?)

[callforjudgement]

In either case, though, where are the unclaimed kills coming from? Is there a killing faction separate from Maxous?

As for the my theory of how Max picked his targets, it is not that hard to balance. If you have a cult that cannot kill (the normal cult) with a Scum group OR a Serial Killer, it is fairly balanced, and the longer the Cult Leader lives the greater their chance is of winning. Right? Now if the leader got lynched at any point the recruitment ability is lost. Agreed?

Disagreed already at this point. Standard Cult Leader + Mafia + Town is incredibly hard to balance; I wouldn't consider that a fairly balanced game. It's often attempted, but most such mods either advertise the game as high-swing and don't care that much about the balance, or else add in secondary mechanics to try to keep the swing down.

[SirCakez]

Who is being pressured to hammer right now? The only person with a hammer dependent role is Ank, who is not posting very much.
If anything there is a lot of pressure not to hammer right now.

[callforjudgement]

In reply to your question, JaeReed is being pressured to hammer (although obviously can't currently hammer A50, who isn't at L-1). You're even asking them to do it yourself.

[BigYoshiFan]

Currently the way I see things going, SirCakez is, if not confirmed as town somehow (and I'm not sure we have any way left to confirm him other than Gio's shot which will take far too long), most likely going to get lynched tomorrow. I'd say they're more of a near-certain lynch than A50 is. So if people generally agree with both lynches and are just looking to order them, I'd rather lynch SirCakez first. It seems much more likely that we'd get a scumflip there than by lynching A50, and we really badly need a scumflip at this point (both to make sense of the setup, and simply because it places us closer to winning).

PV, would you be willing to unvote A50? (A50, would you be willing to unvote yourself?) I know I said I wasn't planning to fight this lynch, but I changed my mind; pseudodeathproofing a townie really isn't worth spending a mislynch, especially as we have no idea how many mislynches we have left.

PEDIT: @SirCakez: Quickhammers are most effective when people don't hold you responsible for them. Given the number of people who either a) are being pressured to hammer by the rest of the thread, or b) have hammer-dependent roles, putting someone at L-1 in this game is very close to hammering, so placing them at L-2 is the best it's possible to do to increase the chances of someone's lynch whilst being able to blame it on someone else.

Also, I had a thought:
@

BigYoshiFan

: What happens if you

attempt to

hammer someone? (I know you're not capable of hammering, but what happens if you try?)

I don't mind a Cakez lynch.
I'd imagine that if I attempt to hammer nothing happens. I can't hammer.

[callforjudgement]

In that case (after checking with the mod to ensure you won't be modkilled for it), I'd suggest attempting to hammer the next wagon that reaches L-1. Having more confirmation of people's roles can hardly be a bad thing.

[Almost50]

I'd imagine that if I attempt to hammer nothing happens. I can't hammer.

Don't assume. Please ask the mod via PM.

This is what the wiki page says though:

A Priest is a role whose player cannot cast a hammer vote. An attempt to cast a hammering vote may be met either with a vote count where the Priest's vote does nothing (confirming the player as a Priest),

or a modkill

.

Priests are essentially never seen in practice

, but are traditionally Town-aligned

The underlined is why I want you to confirm with the mod.

And the bolded is proof skull is not a traditional mod. They do use roles that are "essentially never seen in practice". I have been a Martyr once and a Cowardly Hider another in games modded by them. Even my current role is neither standard nor is it frequently seen in practice.

[Almost50]

In that case (after checking with the mod to ensure you won't be modkilled for it), I'd suggest attempting to hammer the next wagon that reaches L-1. Having more confirmation of people's roles can hardly be a bad thing.

I fully concur.

[BigYoshiFan]

Okay, I can try and hammer someone whenever the opportunity arrives.