Newbie 1766 - Game Over

[Huntress]

Vote Count 1.7

Zekromaster (3) - ssbm_Kyouko, Aeronaut, lucca261
the_end (2) - rb, Zekromaster
ssbm_Kyouko (1) - Friend Computer
Sofiel (1) - the_end
Friend Computer (1) - Sofiel

Not voting (1) - ThinkBig


With nine players alive, it takes five votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is Wednesday, 4th January 22.30. GMT, (in (expired on 2017-01-04 22:30:00)).

@Mod - VLA through Jan. 2

Noted.

[ThinkBig]

VOTE: the_end

I'd much prefer to lynch TE or computer over Zek

[lucca261]

I'm not opposed to a Friend lynch either. But I want to see if Friend, who returned, is going to do a catchup post, so I can develop a better read on him. I feel like my read on him rn is just based on his inactivity.

[the_end]

Happy new year, everyone!

I'm catching up. Let me know if I missed anything

My last post reminded me you never did explain full thoughts on my TB exchange after I followed your 97 with 102. Specifically, what do you think of my suspicion that TB was chainsawing for you by attacking rb, which I detailed in 81?

@the_end

I'm not entirely sure what "chainsawing" means (I couldnt find it on the wiki glossary). I think he was attacking rb for keeping the bandwagon on me going until I was L2. This was quite early on Day 1, which I think at that point put TB off. Ironically, TB has just put me at L2 with his vote in #201.

Concomitant to this - rb's vote had been on me since #31, which was RVS, and had remained unmoved. I'm pretty sure the reason rb gave for the RVS vote (in #31) was a joke. This may have also put off TB because rb had been pushing a wagon based on a RVS vote.

A question to everyone: In simple quick terms say who you support for the D1 lynch and why.

the_end is basically accusing everyone except him and two other players, and has a single townread (which I suspect may be the other scum, but I'm not 100% certain of this because it may just be a random player he chose to "townread" to avoid suspicions). I just don't trust him, and rereading my posts and the topic I get the feel I got all my first reads wrong and that he actually is scum (the "right" reads are those in post #148).

I get the feeling you're pushing for a fast lynch to take the heat of yourself. So far your reads have been inconsistent (to the point of being all over the place) and from Lucca's post in #151 its clear that you don't have any reads of your own but are only parroting what other people have said. This isn't necessarily a scummy thing. It could just be lazy playing on your part. I haven't voted for you yet because I don't want to put anyone at L1 because I'm not completely sure who is scum. Perhaps this is not the right thing to do because I don't think anyone is sure who is scum this early in the game but a lynch is likely to happen in any case.

[Friend Computer]

I'm gonna vote.

VOTE: the_end

Seriously? NEWS FLASH: THERE IS ONLY 2 SCUM!

[ThinkBig]

I'm not entirely sure what "chainsawing" means

Chainsawing refers to the chainsaw defense. It states:

A player who defends another player by attacking the other player's attacker is very probably scum.

So when one player is attacked and someone goes in and attacks the attacker, that person is most likely scum.

[Huntress]

Vote Count 1.8

the_end (4) - rb, Zekromaster, ThinkBig, Friend Computer [L-1]
Zekromaster (3) - ssbm_Kyouko, Aeronaut, lucca261
Sofiel (1) - the_end
Friend Computer (1) - Sofiel

Not voting (0) -


With nine players alive, it takes five votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is Wednesday, 4th January 22.30. GMT, (in (expired on 2017-01-04 22:30:00)).

Notes

rb has been prodded.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Well that was an opportunistic and unexplained L-1 vote
VOTE: Friend Computer

[rb]

Oh hey, my wagon is in the lead!

[rb]

Who are your top3 scumreads ssbmkyoukofriend

[ssbm_Kyouko]

FC, the_end, Zekromaster, but they seem obvious. Probably only 1 scum there unless they're just really obvious. That seems too easy if both scum are in that pool

[rb]

too easy to be scum isn't a reason to not scumread people in my experience

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I mean looking just at those suspects, then seeing the opportunistic FC vote on the_end to put him at L-1 I'd say FC/Zekromaster is the team. Too many nulls to POE it to those 3 though, they're just my top SRs

[lucca261]

What a shit vote. Seriously.

[Aeronaut]

@Sofiel - I jumped on it quickly because he overreacted to what appeared on the surface to be a weak vote. I had a reason to vote him but decided it would be better to see what he would do if I poked him.

I suspect you read that the mafia have no daytalk in your own role pm. Did you read my post?

I've played enough newbie games on here to know that scum team doesn't have day talk. Read the sample PM. You are grasping for straws in a very scummy way.

VOTE: ssbm

This is not a townie reaction to a single weak vote. If he were town he would ignore my vote because it poses no threat to him, because nobody would follow after a weak vote like that. Scum, however, are very paranoid of being lynched and will sometimes overreact to these kinds of votes. I think this is what he did, and that's further confirming my feeling that he is scum, which is why my vote will stay.

I disagree. Your vote on him was pretty baseless and opportunistic; whether you agree or not isn't what's important. What is important is the reaction, really, as you were saying.

Thinkbig saw that it was kind of a baseless reason to be parking your vote, and called you out on it. I feel like as town, this makes a lot of sense; a scum reaction probably would have been less about attacking/pressuring you and more about defending himself. E.g., it probably would have been a scum reaction if he was busy defending himself trying to prove that he just read the OP instead of his own PM.

town is hunting for scum,

scum is defending themselves

.

Thinkbig may have disagreed with why I was SRing him, but I don't think his response to my vote was towny at all. A town reaction would be to disregard something that nobody else would follow. I feel like nobody is reading the entirety of that exchange, because you're probably the third person who thinks my original reason for voting TB was actually because I thought he read about daytalk in his own role PM. I explained the reason I voted him after I was done testing him. Also I strongly disagree with the bolded, if scum just defends themselves and never hunts for "scum" they would lose a lot more games than they do

Scum aren't scum hunting; they're trying to look like they're scum hunting.

If it were me in TB's position, I would have absolutely been the first to call it out, because it is very reachy (if it wasn't a reaction test), especially being a newbie game where newbies will believe things that other players wouldn't. To me, no player would ignore that in the first place (in fact, I feel like him ignoring it would be a huge scum tell). Instead of ignoring it, I think it makes more sense to look at what his reaction to it actually was, which was an attack on not even you, but the shit argument.

I'm also generally pretty skeptical of "reaction tests" in things like newbie games, but that's probably more of a me problem. I just think it's so easy to try some shit push and hope for the best, and when it doesn't pan out just call it a reaction test.

What does Idem mean? "I don't even mind"?

Why would you unvote someone and not ask anyone else a direct question? Are you even trying to find scum? Do you have any reads of your own or are you just waiting for popular opinion to form so you can mold your reads to fit that?

VOTE: Zekromaster

I'm conflicted here, because I absolutely agree with this post, but it also looks like ssbm jumping off of that ThinkBig wagon ASAP because it sure was a bad look.

ThinkBig was my strongest SR at the time. This was much scummier than TBs reaction to my vote. If he had remained calm under pressure I would have looked elsewhere for a scummy player. What was so bad about voting TB? I explained the real reason in 81.

Explained above, but TLDR his reaction was the same reaction any player would have made. Scumreading him for it is just as reachy as the test was.

liking RB for town more and more.

@zekrom, if you had to bet the game on one player being scum, right now, who would you choose?
@sofiel, same question.
@friend, you got any real reasons to vote end right now or is the vote still random? because you fosed ssbm and rb, but instead of voting them, kept a random vote. why is that?
@ssbm, are you going to scumhunt at all?

i got a weird feeling about Sofiel's #113. I feel like he wanted to vote The_End, but didn't wanted to be the third vote on the wagon, so he voted Zekrom instead. The logic is weird. He thinks that pointing out his decision is opportunistic scum. But he didn't think I was scum for doing it. I feel like he was looking for an excuse for voting Zekrom.

--

UNVOTE: Think

keeping voting Think right now is useless, since he is going to be V/LA.

i'll unvote and wait for the answers.

The questions in the post seem kind of boring, random, and baseless. Why ask that to ssbm, when there's like half the game that's made a lot less of an effort to do anything?

I get the feeling lucca is very suspicious of me and hesitates to say it. I felt like he saw my reaction test and decided to try one of his own on me when he offered to sheep me on someone who he thought was null.

Well do you think that's a scum motivation? You could be right but I don't know if it's AI. If he's actually suspicious, wouldn't that be townie?

UNVOTE

Did not realize I was still on RV.

VOTE: sfm

Will come up with a readslist soon.

Doing a Post-By-Post, may take a while.

Currently think the_end is Null Scum.

Hi, my name is friend computer and I sure will do things soon! Also, here's me reiterating a generic universal read.

[Aeronaut]

K, so, for now my strongest town read is surely Aeronaut.

Why?

Sofiel and Kyouko are the most interesting, as some of their behaviour is pretty suspicious (Rapidly changing votes, heavily accusing people even at random) but they look to be genuinely scumhunting. I'd probably say leaning scum, with Sofiel looking more like a "suspicious town" and Kyouko looking more like a "townish scum".

I've literally never read a more fencesitty paragraph in my entire life.

the_end is also reading scum too much. It's a thing I only noticed when looking at his reads as a whole, instead that as single reads. He almost only scumreads, and as a single townread. This last thing is pretty suspicious, at least for me. I can see why one would've thought I was scum by seeing me agree with his reads, and I can see why I was wrong in leaning completely on them.

Is there anything else that looks scum to you about The_End besides this? This is just reiterating part of RB's scum case on him.

rb looks pretty townish too. He defended a town player (I'm pretty sure I'm town) and his shitposting is just how he plays, so it's not alignment indicative. Also, he didn't care one bit about votes aside from some shitposty comments. Which to me feels like he's innocent.
Nothing to say on lucca261, he's pretty much scumhunting but scumhunting by itself doesn't mean being town.
ThinkBig is absent, and also didn't post much. But his posts so fare are a bit on the scummy side.

What do you think about the TBvKyou reaction?

[Aeronaut]

forgot to answer to aero:

liking RB for town more and more.

@zekrom, if you had to bet the game on one player being scum, right now, who would you choose?
@sofiel, same question.
@friend, you got any real reasons to vote end right now or is the vote still random? because you fosed ssbm and rb, but instead of voting them, kept a random vote. why is that?
@ssbm, are you going to scumhunt at all?

i got a weird feeling about Sofiel's #113. I feel like he wanted to vote The_End, but didn't wanted to be the third vote on the wagon, so he voted Zekrom instead. The logic is weird. He thinks that pointing out his decision is opportunistic scum. But he didn't think I was scum for doing it. I feel like he was looking for an excuse for voting Zekrom.

--

UNVOTE: Think

keeping voting Think right now is useless, since he is going to be V/LA.

i'll unvote and wait for the answers.

The questions in the post seem kind of boring, random, and baseless. Why ask that to ssbm, when there's like half the game that's made a lot less of an effort to do anything?

my question to ssbm was because I wanted him to engage with me, since he ignored my vote.

what did you thought it was random about the questions? both zekrom and sofiel weren't voting, so I asked them who was their biggest scumread. from Sofiel, I wanted to know if it was still Zekrom, and from Zekrom, who it was, since he only copied End reads.

Friend was still voting the same guy since rvs. Wanted to know if he had develop a real read on whoever he was voting. (don't remember who it was right now).

Originally they seemed like there was nothing to them (e.g. you were just trying to look busy) but your recent postings kind of show me that you've got reasons to be asking them, so I feel kind of less concerned with it. Generally though, asking "are you going to scum hunt at all" or questions along those lines aren't going to really get you results, it's just going to start an argument. You can do stuff your own way obviously, but usually i like to be more to the point, and just say like "how come you ignored X".

It's because people think I literally voted TB for reading his role PM, and not for the reasons detailed in 81
(I think)

What pings me a bit is that neither of the_end or zekromaster are on my wagon rn which makes me think they aren't the scumteam. Lucca looks probably the towniest vote on my wagon with those detailed explanations, but I think he's misinterpreting some key points due to the language barrier

If you're town, just because someone recognizes that you're town doesn't mean that they're not scum.

Hope everyone had a good Christmas.

I'll be sending out prods later today.

Huntress' christmas gifts to us are prods

I hope everyone had a great Christmas!

I'm catching up. Let me know if I missed anything.

This is where I'm at.

{NT}Sofiel [S: 38*][T: 47, 116]
{NT}rb (SE) [T: 118]

{N}ThinkBig(SE)
{N}ssbm_Kyouko (SE) [T: 43][S: 75]
{N}lucca261 [T: 84, 89][S: 93*, 118*]

{NS}the_end [S: RL*]
{NS}Friend Computer [S: 101*]

{LS}Zekromaster [S: 41*, 103*]

Spoiler: ***

38* This kind of stuck me as scum feeling the waters to see what is ok/not ok to do.
41* Ok... but you're going to efforts to show us that you're active, but aren't actually doing anything to help the game move forward.
93* willing to sheep
RL* Readslist; I really dislike how a lot the scum reads in this list, he later on sort of retracts by saying "I'm not sure"
101* I feel like this is somebody who read a lot of the last 2 or so pages, picked an argument, and then repeated it to look town
103* This post had three "I agree"s and one self defense for lurking. Nothing post to look busy.
118* Baseless/meaningless questions

Spoiler: Key

Conftown - {CT}

Town - {T}

LeanTown - {LT}

NullTown - {NT}

Null - {N}

NullScum - {NS}

LeanScum - {LS}

Scum - {S}

ConfScum - {CS}

I think I should clarify my readlist. When I say "Tending towards scum" I mean "NullScum" rather than "LeanScum". I stand by my scum reads. You've quoted me as saying, "I'm not sure", I don't think I said that anywhere. My reads aren't simple statements where I push a singular narrative of a player's alignment. I tried to reason a player's alignment from their "scum-like" actions and their "town-like" actions.

My issue with it though is that you had said they were leaning scum to you, and then you gave reasons why they could also not be scum. There's no strong stances in that list, and that looks incredibly shady to me.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It's because people think I literally voted TB for reading his role PM, and not for the reasons detailed in 81
(I think)

What pings me a bit is that neither of the_end or zekromaster are on my wagon rn which makes me think they aren't the scumteam. Lucca looks probably the towniest vote on my wagon with those detailed explanations, but I think he's misinterpreting some key points due to the language barrier

If you're town, just because someone recognizes that you're town doesn't mean that they're not scum.

What I meant is those 2 together aren't the scum

team

. I think 1 scum was on my wagon and 1 scum off it. Wrt to Lucca, I felt like he was towny because he looked like he was suspicious of me and trying to test me. Obviously, if he was testing me and now that I've admitted I noticed, he can't rely on the results, but I can rely on the test to TR him. The problem is with mixed signals. I can't be confident in that read on him.

[Aeronaut]

• My vote was a reaction test because I decided to withhold my reason for voting him when I voted him. I had already noticed the posts I quoted in 81 when I pushed on TB. I didn't come up with those reasons after seeing a bad reaction to my vote.

What made you want to withhold those reasons? And what did you gain from the test?

I really think kyouko is a terrible leading wagon. can we not? ty

Ok you've said this twice; but why besides The_end having too many scum reads (that granted are really fence sitty) makes him a really good lynch today? Also Zeke's on that wagon which makes me really not want to be on that wagon.

Sorry guys, got a little busy this morning.

UNVOTE: ssbm

I ISO'd ssbm and am starting to get a slight TR on him.

My biggest SRs right now are the_end and computer.

What made you change your mind?

Hey people, reading once again .

Hey aeronaut, what are your thoughts so far?

WORKING ON IT!!!!!!!!111

In case you guys were wondering, my laptop got a liquid on it and it had to dry out.

Sorry!

What kind of liquid?

VOTE: Zekromaster

So I reread some old posts of mine, and some kyouko posts, and I can see that maybe I was overanalysing some stuff, especially the reaction test. I still think Kyouko is kinda scummy, but liked his interactions with me enough to unvote him and go to my other scumread.

I don't like Zekrom scumread of End. I feel like its inconsistent with his early game, and he doesn't believe it, just saw other people say it and repetead just to get under the radar. So I'm happy putting him at L2

Another way to say you're happy voting someone is by voting them.

[Aeronaut]

A question to everyone: In simple quick terms say who you support for the D1 lynch and why. I really want to hear from the zekromaster voters.

Zekro is engaging in a lot of LAMIST (Look At Me I'm So Town) posting. Specifically, he's contributed very little, and what he has contributed has been simply agreeing with other people, or hardcore fence sitting. The biggest examples of what I'm talking about are in 38, 41, 103, 120, and 148.

I'm still supporting Friend Computer because of the reasons I detailed previously in #168. I'm willing to change to some of my other scum-reads but I haven't seen anything which I've gotten such a strong feeling about so far so really want to see some more arguments. Generally, I'd rather have a lynch on someone who I read as neutral scum over leaning scum than a no lynch, and the deadline although extended is still super close.

As much as FC is being utterly useless, I also don't really want to lynch him today because A) it's going to give us minimal information and not much to work with tomorrow, B) he's likely to get replaced. Zeke is a better lynch in my opinion because he's posting more, but saying less.

[Sofiel]

Friend Computer has literally just proven my feelings about him. He put the_end at L-1 based on general consensus which is opportunistic as hell, and has been posting really generic statements. That newsflash there's only two scum (the "too many scum reads" argument) seems to be his only reasons for voting for the_end which is a terrible argument because afaik good practice is to have double the scum reads of the amount of scum in-game. Seems to me like scum who got spotted and isn't a fan.

(I wrote this before Aero wrote his above post i.e. Aero postblocked me thanks )

@Aero

Zeke and FC seem to be buddying (both are using the same argument to vote against the_end) and I don't know if that's a slip up or not. What I do know is that my feelings abt FC were sorta confirmed when he put the_end at L1. I've not seen much more from Zekro and if we lynch FC today I'd think we could look at how the waters settle and look closer at Zekro tomorrow - but FC is so obvious & I can't look past that.

[Aeronaut]

I'm gonna vote.

VOTE: the_end

Seriously? NEWS FLASH: THERE IS ONLY 2 SCUM!

oh boyyyyyyyyyy

[ssbm_Kyouko]

In post 171, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:

• My vote was a reaction test because I decided to withhold my reason for voting him when I voted him. I had already noticed the posts I quoted in 81 when I pushed on TB. I didn't come up with those reasons after seeing a bad reaction to my vote.
  
  
  What made you want to withhold those reasons? And what did you gain from the test?

The reasons were weak, so I kept them to myself because I felt like the test would either confirm or disconfirm my suspicion. TB moved from nullscum to scumlean from the test, which is something I've alluded to but not put in these terms before. I use [Town/TR, Townlean, Nulltown, Null, Nullscum, Scumlean, Scum/SR] to categorize my reads, and I put a "lynch line" inside my townleans or between my townleans and nulltowns and will lynch anything below it in D1 situations, with lynch preference given to SRs.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm gonna vote.

VOTE: the_end

Seriously? NEWS FLASH: THERE IS ONLY 2 SCUM!

oh boyyyyyyyyyy

Okay so who's the better lynch now, Zekrom or FC?

[Aeronaut]

It's because people think I literally voted TB for reading his role PM, and not for the reasons detailed in 81
(I think)

What pings me a bit is that neither of the_end or zekromaster are on my wagon rn which makes me think they aren't the scumteam. Lucca looks probably the towniest vote on my wagon with those detailed explanations, but I think he's misinterpreting some key points due to the language barrier

If you're town, just because someone recognizes that you're town doesn't mean that they're not scum.

What I meant is those 2 together aren't the scum

team

. I think 1 scum was on my wagon and 1 scum off it. Wrt to Lucca, I felt like he was towny because he looked like he was suspicious of me and trying to test me. Obviously, if he was testing me and now that I've admitted I noticed, he can't rely on the results, but I can rely on the test to TR him. The problem is with mixed signals. I can't be confident in that read on him.

Oh I see.

Friend Computer has literally just proven my feelings about him. He put the_end at L-1 based on general consensus which is opportunistic as hell, and has been posting really generic statements. That newsflash there's only two scum (the "too many scum reads" argument) seems to be his only reasons for voting for the_end which is a terrible argument because afaik good practice is to have double the scum reads of the amount of scum in-game. Seems to me like scum who got spotted and isn't a fan.

(I wrote this before Aero wrote his above post i.e. Aero postblocked me thanks )

@Aero

Zeke and FC seem to be buddying (both are using the same argument to vote against the_end) and I don't know if that's a slip up or not. What I do know is that my feelings abt FC were sorta confirmed when he put the_end at L1. I've not seen much more from Zekro and if we lynch FC today I'd think we could look at how the waters settle and look closer at Zekro tomorrow - but FC is so obvious & I can't look past that.

To be fair, everybody is using the same argument to be voting the end. It's not a bad argument, but what bothers me is that every single person is just parroting RB's original feelings towards him instead of really doing much else.

@rb

why doesn't that concern you at all?