[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/ext/alfredoramos/seometadata/event/listener.php on line 114: Undefined array key 8680291 [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/ext/alfredoramos/seometadata/event/listener.php on line 114: Trying to access array offset on value of type null Mini Normal 1866: Landmark Mafia! (Mafia Victory!) - Mafiascum.net
Saying this here, before role PMs go out, so saying it later is NAI. This account is experimenting with a new strategy to test its validity. I will be leaning HEAVILY on initial gut reads, and will be unlikely to respond to alternate views coming from others.
Everyone here owes it to the town to participate fully in discussion and scumhunting, and a great deal of that happens with back-and-forth argument and working off of each other's ideas. Trying to fly solo, though it may not be scummy in this one particular case, is anti-town IMO. So let's put her through some extra scrutiny by votes.
The listmod doesn't like that sort of thing in her queue thread, and private messages about an upcoming game would have been inappropriate.
I'm also really not a fan of the no-lynch vote. We can discuss that as an option later in the day, but not before everyone has a chance to make Day 1 reads.
Post
Post #50 (isolation #5) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:11 am
Postby Anotora »
RC, you serious about your miller claim? Because if you are then we have at least a 50/50 chance of lynching scum Day 1 and that's a great place to start.
Post
Post #60 (isolation #6) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:14 am
Postby Anotora »
In post 54, Pepchoninga wrote:
Fake claiming is very possible with miller. It is a common tactic. Tho you do seem to be saying the truth. This probably means RC has a good chance of being scum tho.
Pepchoninga, could you explain more specifically why you think Firebringer's claim is more credible than RC's?
Post
Post #84 (isolation #8) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:34 am
Postby Anotora »
In post 67, Frozen Angel wrote:
a scum should be idiot to claim miller. (I'm sure Fire and RC are not idiots - ) [I'm joking! I love you both] cause there is a meta to never let a miller reach mylo lylo.
I think it's more likely for a scum to claim miller early than for scum to counterclaim miller. This is in part because of how unlikely two millers are.
If Firebringer is scum, then claiming miller was a big risk for him that could also have paid off. On the other hand, if RadiantCowbells is scum, claiming miller would be a terrible move, since at best he'd get a mislynch on Firebringer and then be confirmed scum, and at worst he'd be lynched straight off Day 1.
It almost seems to me like we should put such a bad scum move past RC and vote Firebringer, but that's WIFOMy.
I'm not doing anything either way until RC confirms that his claim was serious.
In post 14, -Grey- wrote:No. No Lynch is never an option on d1. That you are feigning objection to it for now and keeping it open as a possibility for later if town is amenable to it gives me scum vibes.
@Anotora , You stated your not a fan of Grey no lynch vote, but thats a topic to discus later in day. Grey beleives you're scum for pretending/suggesting No lynch is a viable discussable option in day 1.
what that makes you think about Grey and his rvs no lynch vote and then his next vote on you?
You're asking what my read on Grey is? My very early read on him is somewhat pro-town based on his actual scumhunting effort, with clear posts with clear points to them.
Post
Post #96 (isolation #11) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:42 am
Postby Anotora »
In post 92, Frozen Angel wrote:no I asked what that particular thing I said means to you.
Could you rephrase that? I don't understand.
-Grey- wrote:
In post 89, Anotora wrote:You're asking what my read on Grey is? My very early read on him is somewhat pro-town based on his actual scumhunting effort, with clear posts with clear points to them.
I'm protown for scumreading you with clear posts with actual points to them?
In post 68, -Grey- wrote:
Too early for Garmr. I think my opinion of Anotora is pretty obvious.
Judging by your ISO it would seem like I'm the only one in the game you have an opinion of.
In post 89, Anotora wrote:You're asking what my read on Grey is? My very early read on him is somewhat pro-town based on his actual scumhunting effort, with clear posts with clear points to them.
I like to know how these two post add up in you're mind. can you explain how someone who is picky on you has a pro town scum hunting effort?
and I mean I like to know what is your opinion about the fact that "he scum reads you for believing Not voting is a topic to be discussed later in day"
Between the two posts of mine that you quoted, Grey posted
-Grey- post #80 wrote:
If you want to claim common sense, them common sense should have told you that a real cc would have been accompanied with a vote.
Post
Post #112 (isolation #13) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:54 am
Postby Anotora »
In post 101, Frozen Angel wrote:and I mean I like to know what is your opinion about the fact that "he scum reads you for believing Not voting is a topic to be discussed later in day"
I mean, it was a reasonable thing for him to criticize, especially considering that was only page 1 and we didn't have a lot to go off of.
It almost seems like you're rewarding me for townreading you, by taking your vote off of me and putting it back on Pepchoninga. That's the scummiest thing you've done so far.
Post
Post #128 (isolation #15) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:08 am
Postby Anotora »
So, Garmr was active in this thread for an hour and literally all he did was (jokingly or not) buddy up to Firebringer and comment on Pepchoninga's newbieness.
Thanks for getting us back on track. The fact that RadiantCowbells has ignored calls to double down on his miller counterclaim, is cause for action. Since ObviousAlt is here to play and doesn't seem anti-information as I worried she might, I'm going to move my vote to pressure RC.
Post
Post #142 (isolation #17) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:55 am
Postby Anotora »
-Grey- and Garmr both use the same talking point(!) about RC's miller counterclaim. That is, "it can't be serious; if it was, then RC would have voted Firebringer."
But that's nonsense because RC did, in fact, vote Firebringer! Only four real-life minutes after posting the counterclaim! And RC's vote is still now on Firebringer!
In post 101, Frozen Angel wrote:and I mean I like to know what is your opinion about the fact that "he scum reads you for believing Not voting is a topic to be discussed later in day"
I mean, it was a reasonable thing for him to criticize, especially considering that was only page 1 and we didn't have a lot to go off of.
So it's ok early game to not say much ok.
Of all the strawmen. How can you even come close to interpreting that, as if I said it was okay not to contribute in the early game?
It almost seems like you're rewarding me for townreading you, by taking your vote off of me and putting it back on Pepchoninga. That's the scummiest thing you've done so far.
But grey has such good town read right you think his points on pepchoninga were good from his perspective. You don't seem fussed with his actual reasoning to vote you in the first place. Seems like your just attacking here for a possible vote.
His actual reasoning to vote for me? I argued with it and won, which is why he took the vote off of me in the first place. As for my read on him, don't be disingenuous. I've made no bones about writing posts that sometimes criticize -Grey- and sometimes praise -Grey-.
In post 142, Anotora wrote:-Grey- and Garmr both use the same talking point(!) about RC's miller counterclaim. That is, "it can't be serious; if it was, then RC would have voted Firebringer."
But that's nonsense because RC did, in fact, vote Firebringer! Only four real-life minutes after posting the counterclaim! And RC's vote is still now on Firebringer!
His reasoning for voting firebringer was because firebringer didn't counter draw him (countervote him).
You are pretty much misrepresenting the scenario here.
Read -Grey-'s post very carefully and tell me if you still think he was talking about Firebringer's vote and not RC's vote.
Grey Post #80 wrote:If you want to claim common sense, them common sense should have told you that a real cc would have been accompanied with a vote.
Post
Post #160 (isolation #21) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:47 pm
Postby Anotora »
In post 158, Garmr wrote:I was talking about rcs reasoning for voting firebringer not about grey.
In other words, you're saying that RC only voted Firebringer because Firebringer failed to vote for RC after RC counterclaimed him. Okay.
You and -Grey- have said that RC's counterclaim was obviously not serious. But if that's the case, if RC's counterclaim was in fact obviously not serious, then why would RC expect Firebringer to even care about the counterclaim, much less place a vote based on it?
Post
Post #162 (isolation #22) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:53 pm
Postby Anotora »
Garmr, why shouldn't I want a fight to break out between the two same-claimed players? That's literally still our best chance of hitting scum today.
As for the business with questioning you, I don't see how that can possibly make me scummier than someone who isn't even questioning others at all. Like, say, srceenplay or RC.
Post
Post #195 (isolation #24) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:02 pm
Postby Anotora »
I agree with Alisae's read on Srceenplay, although I don't know if we have enough material yet to call him opportunistic. Two of his votes (for Obvious Alt and myself) were both lazily added on after he let someone else make the case, so that could definitely be the start of a bad pattern. But the much bigger issue for me is how Srceenplay lurks. Srceenplay's last post especially annoyed me. "Ha! You caught me scummily lurking but nobody is going to do anything about it. Too bad for you!"
What I'd really like to know is what exactly does -Grey- disagree with in Alisae's case against Srceenplay?
Post
Post #219 (isolation #29) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:21 pm
Postby Anotora »
So, we can't really talk much about it because of Rule 11 (ongoing games), but Srceenplay's meta is interesting and everyone here should definitely check it out.
Post
Post #223 (isolation #30) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:48 pm
Postby Anotora »
I don't feel that I crossed the line into discussing anything that isn't okay to discuss. And I have absolutely nothing more to say about it. I'm trying to read up on everyone in general, though.
Post
Post #353 (isolation #32) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:15 pm
Postby Anotora »
Here's the sum up of what I think of all the active players so far, not that anyone asked.
-Grey-
+ Consistently good reasons for his votes, except obviously #94 is weird from my own perspective
+ Consistent tone
+ Independent of others
Alisae
+ Points out inconsistencies in others' play
? Wagoning the lurker
- Contribution is limited beyond "I like you", "I don't like you".
Firebringer
+ Believeable miller claim
? Non-substantial activity except for a few reads until the spat with Frozen Angel
Frozen Angel
+ Asks the right questions to move discussion forward
Garmr
- Only started building his strawmannish tunnel case on me after I pressured him at #128
+ Consistent productive activity
Obvious Alt
+ Good gut read from her single post
? Inactive
Pepchoninga
- Lots of non-substantial activity
- Says that he has a good read on -Grey- in #254, suspects -Grey- of a scumslip in #257, "it was a joke" in #262
- Acts extremely noncommittal and tries not to get in the thick of discussion. Has repeatedly expressed he wants a long day. #268 is abysmally bad.
- In #279 he postures noncommittally so as to maybe get on my wagon in the future. I think if he were town he would have straight up voted me instead of keeping the joke vote he's had on Srceenplay since page 3. Speaking of his srceenplay vote, he hasn't said a single word about it since that wagon turned serious. Suspicious.
RadiantCowbells
+ Independent of others
+ Productive activity
Srceenplay
- Lurking with non-substantial activity
- Does nothing when called out on this
- Sheeps onto wagons
I didn't realize how strong of a read I would get going through Pepchoninga's ISO, but now I find him real scummy. I think his strategy is to wait for a wagon that has a solid chance of resulting in a lynch. In the meantime, he talks a lot but really says nothing.
Post
Post #368 (isolation #35) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:38 pm
Postby Anotora »
Oh! Pepcho! You're right, I completely missed your chiming in on Srceenplay in #289.
Screenplay hasn't stayed for an actual disscussion so you can actually say "Yes, he is here, but he isn't contributing". Also this isn't exactly the Screenplay I know, but he might just not have anything to go for still.
You are completely unjustified in defending Srceenplay like this, and a post like this gives ground to suspect a Pepcho/Srceenplay scumteam.
+ Asks the right questions to move discussion forward
So?
What has she done with the answers to those questions?
Not much, which is why I have a null-ish read on her.
I don't think she has asked any right question but lets go off what you said.
Your two answer contradict. You acknowledge that she has been asking questions yet she does nothing with them. This does nothing to push discussion forward it actually cuts it off as soon as a question is answered.
Other players have been following up her questions and moving things forward adequately.
Post
Post #378 (isolation #40) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:07 am
Postby Anotora »
"Independent" and "produces good content" are actual things I thought about the players when I read their ISOs. Believe that they came from my town perspective, or don't.
Also how is independent a town trait and not a character trait.
If you seriously think this, then you must think that buddying and sheeping aren't scumtells. Which would actually explain why you like my wagon so much more than Srceenplay's, I guess.
Post
Post #381 (isolation #41) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:19 am
Postby Anotora »
In post 379, Pepchoninga wrote:
Good theory but I'm just pointing out the obvious. Just as many players here know each other and how they play, I also know Srceenplay a bit, since I'm curently playing in another game with him. He either is a very bad scum or has other good explanation for his bad contribution to the game and sometime cocky responses.
You're not "pointing out the obvious". Rather, you're reaching for ways to defend him, still, even now that I'm calling you out on it. And I find that absolutely fascinating.
Post
Post #382 (isolation #42) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:22 am
Postby Anotora »
Let me be perfectly clear, then, if you don't think I'm clear enough. I think Pepcho/Srceenplay are a scum team, and the third scum is either one of the inactives or a relatively skillful player we can't root out yet with the given information.
Post
Post #385 (isolation #43) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:29 am
Postby Anotora »
In post 383, Garmr wrote:
Sheeping isn't a scum trait town can sheep as well. Also I'm town and I have budded up to firebringer because I want to make myself and firebringer a bigger threat to scum. If scum see's two town wanting to work together they will want to put a stop that because they are a threat end game to their existence.
No. Just... no.
Produces good content is to generic and can be applied anywhere. I would expect you to actually point out whats good content why it's good ect. Then again that would require thought which a townie would do and not a quick post to attempt to look town.`
This is the fairest criticism of me that you've put forth. I'll work on improving how specific my posts are.
In post 382, Anotora wrote:Let me be perfectly clear, then, if you don't think I'm clear enough. I think Pepcho/Srceenplay are a scum team, and the third scum is either one of the inactives or a relatively skillful player we can't root out yet with the given information.
Great, we have a game solver...tbh, your recent posts seem to be very aggressive. Is it of frustration or because you are angry that your game plan didn't work? This isn't provocative or anything I'm just trying to see a reaction and an answer.
I'm being aggressive on purpose to put pressure on you.
In post 379, Pepchoninga wrote:
Good theory but I'm just pointing out the obvious. Just as many players here know each other and how they play, I also know Srceenplay a bit, since I'm curently playing in another game with him. He either is a very bad scum or has other good explanation for his bad contribution to the game and sometime cocky responses.
You're not "pointing out the obvious". Rather, you're reaching for ways to defend him, still, even now that I'm calling you out on it. And I find that absolutely fascinating.
I'm pointing out his flaws but also not pushing his button. Why should I? He hasn't made one good post. The only things against him are a bit of lurking and cockiness in his one liners. While this is suspicious it is something a not so active town could do too. Until he becomes more active and starts doing stuff I cannot get a clear opinion on him on Day 1. At least I think so. I don't know how you get your theory of me being scum buddies. You are panicking.
He hasn't made one good post, and how long exactly do you intend to wait for him to make one? The fact that he came into the thread, eight pages deep, to post such useless nothings as #216 and #218, is scummy, plain and simple. If your plan is to wait until he becomes more active before you can get a read on him, then you may never have a read on him! And wouldn't that be convenient.
Maybe I'm being impatient with him, but he practically scoffed at our requests for him to make substantive, town-helping posts. He did that two times, twenty minutes apart!
Post
Post #593 (isolation #46) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:43 am
Postby Anotora »
So, from my understanding, Pepcho voted for Srceenplay in RVS, kept the vote there for about fifteen pages, removed it "because my RVS vote seems to be causing so much trouble", and then just REVOTED Srceenplay for no additional reason because now he's under pressure to make a case.
...And people think my contribution is worse than his?
Post
Post #600 (isolation #47) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:54 am
Postby Anotora »
I really can see zero reason why any town-aligned players would rather take Srceenplay (or Pepcho, but that's more debatable) to D2 than take me to D2.
Post
Post #643 (isolation #51) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:52 pm
Postby Anotora »
I have work for the next eight hours, so if I could not be lynched during this time, that would be great. I know I'm only at L-2 but if I am put at L-1 I wouldn't put it past scum to quickhammer.
Feels like they're trying to derail the wagon by shadethrowing.
To be fair alisae anotora has been shade throwing at their town reads the whole game.
You act like it's a crime to notice both townish and scummish things that a given player does. Don't act as if I'm being unclear on who my main scum suspects are. I'm not. I have not been wishy-washy. I just want to take all a player's pros and cons into account, rather than making tunnel cases. Which I think is a big difference you and I have.
Post
Post #688 (isolation #54) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:38 pm
Postby Anotora »
I can hardly believe I'm saying this, but Srceenplay is right and Alisae is wrong in this claiming argument. Town has nothing to gain from me claiming, but scum would be happy to see me do it.
Post
Post #690 (isolation #55) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:06 pm
Postby Anotora »
So, guys, here's my case for why lynching me today is a bad idea:
- Whether I flip scum or town (hint: I will flip town), mine is a relatively low-information lynch compared to the info you would be getting from lynching Pepcho or Srceenplay. I really haven't engaged much yet directly with people like Frozen Angel and RadiantCowbells, but if you learn something from Pepcho's flip, you end up learning something about pretty much every other player in the game except kentofan. And if Srceenplay winds up being scum, which is very likely, then you will learn a *heck of a lot* based on who was willing to defend his scummy activity and who wasn't. To be explicit about it, if Srceenplay flips scum, we can pretty much proceed to wagon Pepcho D2 unless/until new information comes up.
- I am an active poster, and that alone makes me worth keeping around. At least I don't try to obstruct others from reading me the way Srceenplay has the whole game (and Pepcho has done on occasion with meaningless posts). I'd much rather the town doesn't carry dead weight like Srceenplay on its back. Even if I'm scum, which I'm not, wouldn't you rather have me be an obvious suspect later on, than be stuck with Srceenplay or Pepcho clouding the waters?
- Pepcho and Srceenplay are, in fact, scummier than I am. Maybe I still have a long way to go, convincing people of this, but it's true. All game long, Srceenplay's posts have been just terrible, and he's only improved them in hopes of warding off his newfound wagon. Pepcho's gameplay, to me, absolutely screams out bussing. Peeps like Garmr and Grey have been on my case for what feels like the lion's share of the day now, but my posting has wavered little. You can't say that about either of them, and it's really suspicious.
I realize this post might make it sound like I favor a Srceenplay lynch moreso than a Pepcho lynch. That isn't true. I think Pepcho is a lot worse than Srceenplay because Pepcho has gone out of his way to defend another scummy player, while the reverse is not true. But it seems like the rest of the playerlist sees Srceenplay as the main alternative to lynching me. I'm okay with that, though not thrilled.
Post
Post #697 (isolation #57) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:27 pm
Postby Anotora »
In post 694, -Grey- wrote:{-Grey-}
{RadiantCowbells, Garmr}
{Frozen Angel, Firebringer}
{Obvious Alt, mlmooney89, kentofan}
{Srceenplay, KNPD, Alisae}
{Anotora, PeptoNinja}
You've only really posted regarding keyenpeedee once, in post #486. I think it's interesting that you put keyenpeedee and Srceenplay on the same tier of scumminess. Srceenplay is really far scummier than keyenpeedee and I think almost everyone but you can agree to that.
In post 699, Anotora wrote:You don't get to decide how your posts are read by others, Pep. That's kind of the point of the game.
Yes I do, when you are completely shifting there meaning. This is common tactic of scum. You are shifting my comment so they can apeal to your cause when I've explained multiple times the meaning of that post.