Large Normal 199: L'Hôtel Pleuvoir (Fin)

[Gamma Emerald]

These are rather outdated but:
Alisae, Titus Town
Pine, gerry, Elbirn towny
Aj townish
Nero scummish
ssbm scummy
Sonia, Tywin scum

[Alisae]

Then get them dated. I don't want outdated reads.

[Alisae]

and take your time too if you're still reading.

[Tywin Lannister]

Will get to you about Sonia when I get home Nero, but Tywin you should iso me, I know I haven't interacted much with gamma but I SRed mozamis on the basis she was preferentially treating Pine for lurking compared to other lurkers. I was thinking scum!Moz meant scum!Pine but I was wrong there

Wall post is for Kyouko for those of you who are allergic to reading:

I will do it when I have time. It's been/going to be a long week for me due to end of the year stuff at work. I think I'll be working around 72 hours this week and then I'm moving to a new apt at the end of January, so my time is somewhat limited atm to put it lightly. I'll still try though. I honesty find you to be the least scummy of the three I've SR pretty consistently, although you do have the most 'evidence' against you. Still, your play has been active enough to make me think you may not be scum, and in that case, I do need to rethink things a bit. You just don't 'feel' as scummy as pine/gamma do, which is why I told Alisae I'd be moving my vote to pine with her after I got home from work. I'm home now, so I'll do what I said. Also, I think gamma may be a better target for Alisae than you, but I can't say I'd not agree with either. I know her and Sonia don't feel you are town, and regardless of how you feel less scummy to me than pine/gamma, you do still give me spidey sense pings.

So anyways, I'll ISO you soon and reevaluate things. Pine does look like the better lynch to me, and I've been 'pining' after his lynch since the beginning of day 2. There's no reason for me to not vote there when Alisae already has. All I ask of you is that if you are town, at least ISO gamma/pine when you have time and give thoughts. If I'm wrong about you being scum, then I'll admit it, but I still think you are for the time being. My opinion probably doesn't matter much though.

Anyway:VOTE: Pine

[Gamma Emerald]

Then get them dated. I don't want outdated reads.

I'm doing a system where I have 2 tabs: one for catching up with a larger amount of content and one for responding to things as I go.
This game is in the second section currently.

[Alisae]

Then get them dated. I don't want outdated reads.

I'm doing a system where I have 2 tabs: one for catching up with a larger amount of content and one for responding to things as I go.
This game is in the second section currently.

Then take your time.

[Tywin Lannister]

That read list by gamma is really bad lol. Idc if he calls me scum, since that seems to be common with everyone in the game besides
Alisae (funny how nobody looks at that and wonders why scum would also call me scum if I was on their team), but him putting Sonia there is just bad. Her point about voting Nos and never being on a townie wagon was a very good one. Nos' wagon was counter to towns, and scum didn't need to go there. There was no reason to buss Nos on D1, so I think that makes Sonia pretty obvious town.

I like this though. Gamma's reads pretty much solidify my thoughts on him being scum. Scum this game keep trying to go after either easy lynchbait (me) or discredit obvious town like Alisae. Sonia is also pretty high on the TRs for anyone that actually looks at it from a town point of view, so when Kyouko and Gamma go after her, it also shows their connection. Pine going after Alisae, which Nos also did, shows their connection. I think scum have made the mistake here of continuing to go after the easy town lynchbait rather than ever reevaluating the game after things like Nos' flip. Any smart town would see the Nos flip and know who to peg as town due to that, so going after Sonia and Alisae just seems like bad reaching. They also obviously won't call each other scum, so it just proves my point I think.

I'm happy with my reads.

[Alisae]

I also see a Gamma, Titus, Pine scumteam being a thing if Elbrin is right about his shit.
Think about it. Titus never agreed to the early wagon D1 but goes on it anyways becuase most of her townreads were on it. Sheep and a shitty attmempt at a bus.
Titus also refuses to think that Pine is scum.
But if this is true, then how Titus was cleared by a gunsmith is wierd unless the following is true: Cabd lied about clearing Titus.

[Elbirn]

Hey Elbrin, how about you go into my ISO and read all my recent posts about Pine and then tell me whatchu think of him.

I have read them and was not convinced. Sorry friend. :/

Like it was all "pine is scum cuz he disregarded me and then he faked a double vote" and I'm all "those things aren't AI"

[Alisae]

But saying Cabd lied about clearing Titus is probably conspiracy, so rip my tin foil hat.

[Alisae]

Hey Elbrin, how about you go into my ISO and read all my recent posts about Pine and then tell me whatchu think of him.

I have read them and was not convinced. Sorry friend. :/

Like it was all "pine is scum cuz he disregarded me and then he faked a double vote" and I'm all "those things aren't AI"

And the other posts where I quoted some of Pine's other posts including his link to Kyouko and my discussion with him about the traitor crumb?

Also it's not the doublevote itself, it's the tone that striked me as frustrated scum.

[Tywin Lannister]

I also see a Gamma, Titus, Pine scumteam being a thing if Elbrin is right about his shit.
Think about it. Titus never agreed to the early wagon D1 but goes on it anyways becuase most of her townreads were on it. Sheep and a shitty attmempt at a bus.
Titus also refuses to think that Pine is scum.
But if this is true, then how Titus was cleared by a gunsmith is wierd unless the following is true: Cabd lied about clearing Titus.

If Cabd didn't post that he investigated Titus and didn't find a gun, id agree with everything you just said. She's pinged my radar hard all game long, but the fact that Cabd didn't find anything on her makes the whole thing moot I think. Unless there is a loophole where scum this game don't all need to have a gun, then she can't be scum. If there was a loophole where she is scum with a knife or something over a gun, then it kind of eliminates the entire point of a gunsmith. I can't really see how that's possible, so I have to believe she's town even though it goes against my gut. If she does turn out to be scum post-game, then I'll be pissed lol. I just don't see it though. We can't gamble on some weird loophole working against a gunsmith here. The only killing role that 'should' be able to escape a positive investigation from a gunsmith is an SK (possibly killing with knives instead of gun), but even that isn't normal. I know Titus isn't the SK, so she has to be town.

[Alisae]

I also see a Gamma, Titus, Pine scumteam being a thing if Elbrin is right about his shit.
Think about it. Titus never agreed to the early wagon D1 but goes on it anyways becuase most of her townreads were on it. Sheep and a shitty attmempt at a bus.
Titus also refuses to think that Pine is scum.
But if this is true, then how Titus was cleared by a gunsmith is wierd unless the following is true: Cabd lied about clearing Titus.

If Cabd didn't post that he investigated Titus and didn't find a gun, id agree with everything you just said. She's pinged my radar hard all game long, but the fact that Cabd didn't find anything on her makes the whole thing moot I think. Unless there is a loophole where scum this game don't all need to have a gun, then she can't be scum. If there was a loophole where she is scum with a knife or something over a gun, then it kind of eliminates the entire point of a gunsmith. I can't really see how that's possible, so I have to believe she's town even though it goes against my gut. If she does turn out to be scum post-game, then I'll be pissed lol. I just don't see it though. We can't gamble on some weird loophole working against a gunsmith here. The only killing role that 'should' be able to escape a positive investigation from a gunsmith is an SK (possibly killing with knives instead of gun), but even that isn't normal. I know Titus isn't the SK, so she has to be town.

Yep. Hence why the theory that Cabd lied about clearing Titus is most likely conspiracy.

[Tywin Lannister]

And if Cabd lied for some completely unknown, irrational reason, then we could blame him post-game, but there's literally no reason for him to have role claimed with a lie there. He got himself NK'd due to his claim, so I'm pretty positive he was telling the truth. If not, then town will lose due to his investigation. I just don't believe he'd lie for absolutely no reason.

[Alisae]

Yeah that's also true.
But the reason why I thought he could be lieing is if he did a huge as fuck reaction test and really looked at me or Syr and pretended that I was SK.
Either way it's probably shit theory.

[Tywin Lannister]

Hey Elbrin, how about you go into my ISO and read all my recent posts about Pine and then tell me whatchu think of him.

I have read them and was not convinced. Sorry friend. :/

Like it was all "pine is scum cuz he disregarded me and then he faked a double vote" and I'm all "those things aren't AI"

He's scum for other reasons, but the most recent one was his vote on Alisae earlier today. Alisae is all but confirmed to not be scum after the Nos NK. Voting Alisae is so anti-town that there's no excuse for it. He also has ignored kyouko's wagon entirely (not even acknowledging its existence at the time), which makes me think they're a team. Do you know who also voted Alisae claiming she was the SK over actually trying to vote scum? Nos.

Since you aren't convinced about Pine, then give your reasons for TRing him. I'm curious to see why anyone would. At best, he should be a null read based on his content and votes (always on town). He pushes for town wagons and then when we get a scum flip due to Alisae's NK, he pushes for her lynch. Damning IMO

[Elbirn]

Hey Elbrin, how about you go into my ISO and read all my recent posts about Pine and then tell me whatchu think of him.

I have read them and was not convinced. Sorry friend. :/

Like it was all "pine is scum cuz he disregarded me and then he faked a double vote" and I'm all "those things aren't AI"

And the other posts where I quoted some of Pine's other posts including his link to Kyouko and my discussion with him about the traitor crumb?

Also it's not the doublevote itself, it's the tone that striked me as frustrated scum.

I'm p sure I saw the traitorcrumbdiscussion bit? That was the "pine discredited me" part I mentioned. I wasn't really sold.

His double vote didn't strike me as fake. I mean I get the tone reading bit, I myself play largely by sense of smell, but I didn't see it there. It seemed a natural reaction? He thinks tywin is obvscum. He wants tywin dead like yesterday.

[Alisae]

His double vote didn't strike me as fake. I mean I get the tone reading bit, I myself play largely by sense of smell, but I didn't see it there. It seemed a natural reaction? He thinks tywin is obvscum. He wants tywin dead like yesterday.

Replace the word "Obvscum" with "obvtown." And what do you get?
And BTW this is around the time where Tywin might have been saying somethings along the lines of Pine was scum? Don't exactly remember that too well, let me go check real quick.

[Elbirn]

His double vote didn't strike me as fake. I mean I get the tone reading bit, I myself play largely by sense of smell, but I didn't see it there. It seemed a natural reaction? He thinks tywin is obvscum. He wants tywin dead like yesterday.

Replace the word "Obvscum" with "obvtown." And what do you get?
And BTW this is around the time where Tywin might have been saying somethings along the lines of Pine was scum? Don't exactly remember that too well, let me go check real quick.

I'm not really certain what you're driving at :/

[Alisae]

His double vote didn't strike me as fake. I mean I get the tone reading bit, I myself play largely by sense of smell, but I didn't see it there. It seemed a natural reaction? He thinks tywin is obvscum. He wants tywin dead like yesterday.

Replace the word "Obvscum" with "obvtown." And what do you get?
And BTW this is around the time where Tywin might have been saying somethings along the lines of Pine was scum? Don't exactly remember that too well, let me go check real quick.

I'm not really certain what you're driving at :/

Read Tywin's latest posts. They come off to me as I probably said earlier, frustrated, survivalistic, self-ware lynch bait and is a pretty obvious townie.

[Alisae]

If anyone here can someonewhat understand that, I think it's you.

[Tywin Lannister]

Hey Elbrin, how about you go into my ISO and read all my recent posts about Pine and then tell me whatchu think of him.

I have read them and was not convinced. Sorry friend. :/

Like it was all "pine is scum cuz he disregarded me and then he faked a double vote" and I'm all "those things aren't AI"

And the other posts where I quoted some of Pine's other posts including his link to Kyouko and my discussion with him about the traitor crumb?

Also it's not the doublevote itself, it's the tone that striked me as frustrated scum.

I'm p sure I saw the traitorcrumbdiscussion bit? That was the "pine discredited me" part I mentioned. I wasn't really sold.

His double vote didn't strike me as fake. I mean I get the tone reading bit, I myself play largely by sense of smell, but I didn't see it there. It seemed a natural reaction? He thinks tywin is obvscum. He wants tywin dead like yesterday.

Everyone in the game thinks I'm obv scum and want me lynched. The problem here is that unless you believe I'm the only scum, and Nos was my partner, then you'd have to question why scum would want to bus me so hard the entire game. The only players who have ever defended me have been proven town. I think scum are ignoring these obvious points to push for the lynchbait target. They obviously know I'd be the easiest wagon to push through, and their only other option is to vote their scum buddy. There's a reason gamma/pine vote me all game long (except when they're lynching other town D1 & D2.

The reason I'm not fully convinced of Kyouko being scum compared to Pine/Gamma is that he didn't allow me to hammer myself. Scum would have no reason to derail a wagon where town lynch themselves in frustration. It would be a long con move for him to derail it there by him assuming id be the easy lynch another day and gaining town cred for derailing the hammer today. I just don't fully believe Kyouko would be that aware, and even if he is, Pine/Gamma are both good lynches that don't have anything doubtful about them in the way kyouko's did.

[Elbirn]

He's scum for other reasons, but the most recent one was his vote on Alisae earlier today. Alisae is all but confirmed to not be scum after the Nos NK. Voting Alisae is so anti-town that there's no excuse for it. He also has ignored kyouko's wagon entirely (not even acknowledging its existence at the time), which makes me think they're a team. Do you know who also voted Alisae claiming she was the SK over actually trying to vote scum? Nos.

Since you aren't convinced about Pine, then give your reasons for TRing him. I'm curious to see why anyone would. At best, he should be a null read based on his content and votes (always on town). He pushes for town wagons and then when we get a scum flip due to Alisae's NK, he pushes for her lynch. Damning IMO

I agree that voting alisae is pretty pants on head stupid, but pine did have reasoning for it. And it was a wholly different situation than from nos, like I said in an earlier post.

Re: Kyouko + pine, preflip associations aren't a good move to make. Either way, it doesn't surprise me that pine ignored the Kyouko wagon because he's been pretty open about townreading her strongly. It's also worth noting that Kyouko was pushing pine, no?

I'm willing to more critically reevaluate pine here but uhh for now my reasoning is a lot of "because I think so". I've been satisfied with his contributions since he stopped being such a lurky fuck on d1, his words have made my tummy smile

[Tywin Lannister]

I'm not sold on Kyouko as stated above. My pre-flip associations aren't set in stone, and I reevaluated kyouko's slot after thinking about it. While I still lean scum for him, it isn't nearly as much as before. Some things just don't add up for a scum Kyouko. In that case, and assuming there are 3 scum left (at most IMO, so could be two), I'd add Nero/AJ as the possible third. Either way, I SR pine and gamma pretty hard. Kyouko I can at least see reasons for being town. I can't get over the Alisae vote today from Pine though, and gamma remains his usual self, so I won't be changing my opinion on him.

Anyway, I think everyone has read my thoughts on those few players. Whatever the lynch is today, people know my reads and the reasons for them. That's all I can do. Everyone else has to make up their own minds.

[Alisae]

Tywin let me summarize Kyouko's scum game if this game is his scum game.
LAMIST