Newbie 1769: Happy New Year! (Post-Game)

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Hello everyone,

I just realized that this is started. I promise to read the game later today, after my work.

Nice to meet you all!

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I'm currently catching up. I had some questions which were already answered, so I deleted them.

Let's get some random questions in to get discussion flowing as well:

Newbies
1. Have you ever played mafia before? If so, where? If not, then welcome!
2. What made you decide to give MS a try?

Everyone
3. Do you prefer to play town or mafia?
4. What is your favorite/least favorite role?

I don't understand the point of these questions but sure

1. No. But I know someone close who plays this so I'm not unfamiliar with the main concept. - They told I can't ask for her help so you need to tolerate my basic questions! -
2. I was just curios about this to be honest.
3. I'm not sure!
4. Cop looks great. I don't hate any roles at the moment.

Least favorite: Bodyguard/Innocent Child

What are Bodyguard and Innocent Child?

_schadd, is your TB vote serious?

mine is

Why would you vote someone to get them lynched, that soon in the game?

I am still a standard player. I'll play for my win condition.

This means that you can be mafia as well? I was assuming it's 1 newbie/1 SE team, isn't it? [after reading 80 I guess not]

Thanks for the descriptions, They are really helpful.

I was going to call out Shade for throwing Shade, but schadd_ looks worse.

What do you mean?

In general I like looking at people when their guard is down so this is kinda lame, hopefully you're right anyways though.

Actually this was kinda my bad for asking about it.

How can we bring down someone's guard to understand their motivations?

None of GAYreen, rakkar and Shade were online after Day 1 started...

I honestly didn't realize the game was started. I promise to check this every night.

like i would think in a newbie game, a newer player may kind of be off guard and, if they actually HAVE a PR, might have special interest in that role that shows when they answer the question

just gives me rolefishing vibes

I like the way this idea is developed.

GAYreen (and any of the newer players here), have you read any games on here? It might be a good idea to see what's considered scummy/townie (if you don't already have a sense) or just get an idea of how a game usually goes.

Newbies are typically really slow like this but there are a few good ones out there too.

If there are several behaviors that are already known as scummy, why would any scum do them? Unless if you're saying a newbie might do them when they're scum which contradicts with your action - pointing them out to them.

Anyway as I said I have someone close who plays this so I know about some of these behaviors you're talking about.

Since I am at L-2 or 1, I'm going to claim. I am a

Vanilla Townie

When I get home from work, I'll catch up on everything.

So Raskolnikov voted to put ThinkBig at L1 (which was L2) but when they claimed he got like this:

-__-

@Raskolnikov why you tried to put him in L1 if you didn't want him to claim?

GAYreenHamster was kinda opportunistic there as well but they didn't vote.

Thinkbig is not a newbie so if its known that people must claim after an intent on MS, him claiming there is actually scummy.

We have more than 14 days. No reason to hammer yet.

What gave you the impression that someone is going to hammer you soon?

Thinkbig if you're actually town and just happened to check the thread via phone 10 minutes after I voted and overreacted based on an l-2 because you were on mobile and couldn't read and claimed because you didnt have time to respond because you weren't home yet and you also have your own personal theory that people should claim at l-2 without intent I've never heard about, I think I hate both you and my luck.

In my games, I tend to overreact to pressure and votes. Especially when I am at L-2 with 14 days left in the DP.

So this might be your attempt to make you look like your town version in past games to get some town reads.

there's nothing wrong with having your own reads even if they go against the grain you know.... like it's fine you agree with our points but i feel like you're being a little too sheepy

What is the meaning of sheepy?

it makes it scummy from my perspective, tho; maybe you should seem town to everyone else

why should scum bother to scum read you when they can just kill you? why town can't mistakenly scum read you? You're making no sense.

OK, finally done reading this. I need to see others opinion about my post and my questions answer before deciding to vote but I think I'm more comfortable voting Think big over anyone else. Their either mafia who claimed like that in first place or is really a Vanilla Town who is compromised to mafia. Going in other directions will probably help mafia in their PR haunt and I don't like that.

I will be offline for an hour or two. Feel free to ask questions from me, I will answer them when I'm back. And please answer my questions. Thanks!

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What do you mean?

Shade, schadd_

Got it?

Well, throwing shade is something like making a player look scummy yet not scumreading him.

I get the joke lol, I just got confused why you started joking about my username there.

and thanks for the answers.

If you have a scumread (you think someone is more likely to be mafia based on their posts and your perception of their motivations),

then it's simply playing to win to vote to have them lynched

. The only reason, at least to me, to withhold your vote is if you're not ready to end the day with a hammer and claim.

I'm assuming that by asking that, (if this is not true then you can ignore this question) that there's a reason you believe I shouldn't have voted TB in that instant? If so, why?

You said your vote was serious means you wanted to get them lynched. It's just hard to believe you got that strong feeling about a slot based on that post. I'm concerned about how fast you reached that state for being comfortable for saying your vote was serious not that you shouldn't have voted him.

I know this was for creature but i kind of want to comment on it

the game would focus way too much around optimal play and be too townsided (favoring town wins) if it were always 1 newbie/1 SE. Basically you'd just have to lynch all 2 or 3 SEs and then let the NKs confirm 1-2 newbies as town, and then leave the rest of the game to the remaining 3 newbies. kinda defeats the purpose of the game i feel. (if the team is in fact two newbies, godspeed. i've seen a few of newbie-newbie teams do really well but rolling scum for your first game without knowing how to town must really suck )

I was thinking, since it's a newbie game there is a veteran player in scum teams, but yeah I understand why that ruins the game now. Thanks.

Scum are inherently lying about the information they have when they play Mafia and also win the game in a different manner than Town. Basically playing this game is looking for people who are trying to hide those two things from the rest of us.

Sometimes for people first picking up this game, it's hard to really understand what someone lying about information they have looks like (maybe less so for having different motives when reading newer players but it's not always intuitive) over text. This leads to a lot of players looking for a lot of bad (in my opinion) universal tells, like "OMGUS" (voting/suspecting someone because they suspect you, which I think can be a valid reason to vote someone if you think their reasoning isn't genuine) or being over-defensive (Nobody wants confirmed town to die because that doesn't help town win at all. Survival shouldn't be your biggest priority but some people (like me lol) are really bad to reacting to pressure). Reading past games where you can see other players in your position go through the motions might help jumpstart the right thought process, and also let you see what scum in different skill levels look like.

Thanks for the clarifications. I don't think I can find enough time to read any past games though. catching up with this game will be hard enough at this rate; if it's going to have 9 new pages each 24 hours! Maybe next week, I actually tried that.

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I actually try* that and sorry for grammatical errors.

I'm just tired.

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and i'll try to cut down on hyperposting a bit, reading 9 pages of one-liners is really annoying and i'm really bad at exacerbating that

It's fine! I will try to adjust myself! [not speaking for anyone else]

not sure where those questions come from. all i was saying is that when someone votes for me, it makes them seem scummy to me, given that i know my alignment. the second question doesn't have an answer; town can totally misread me. the first question doesn't make sense to me; if gayreen is scum, he is going to want to lynch a town during the day (which he would try to do by saying he has a scumread on them). he will also want to kill a town during the night.

This was where the question is coming from. Why voting you is scummy? Are you confirmed town or something? The fact you know your alignment is irreverent when your trying to read others intention. It just feels like a faulty logic but maybe I'm wrong.

Hey all! I have off today and tomorrow (WOO HOO) so let me take some time to catch up!

What happened?

but i'm kind of at a point where i have to pick two in {schadd, shade, matt} to be very confident in their townieness to get that game-winning townbloc (very confident in rask, you, and GAYreen town)

Can you explain your line of thinking please? I really like to see how you will explain your reads.

I also think rask not being around is not scummy even though I don't know them. Think big is scummier for not being around cause they have some heat on them.

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anyway I like to see what will happen if I just vote Thinkbig

VOTE: Vote : ThinkBig

This is L2 I believe.

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That was my first vote, Why are you trying to make me feel it was worthless.

I think Thinkbig is avoiding this game. I like to see his answers to my questions.

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First if you know I'm going to question why you're voting me why you didn't answer that in the first place?

Second I didn't vote Thinkbig for his claim. I'm voting him because I want him to answer "why he claimed".

Third what about his claim is town-y?

Fourth What about my vote was scummy?

Fifth what is POE ? Point of elimination? If you hate that why you used it last page when you started striking people?

Sixth how is Think Big claim suicide? He just claim Vanilla. If he doesn't get lynched (which he won't cause you're town reading him for that vote) mafia has no reason to kill him anymore. You're making no sense.

Anyway. Bye for tonight.

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for that claim*

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I can't catch up and post more than this tonight because I'm really busy with a sudden real life issue, and the fact this game has so many new posts is not helping.

@Aeronaut Please don't replace me from the game! I will promised try to be more active.

Just answering to a post I read last night

@gigabyteTroubadour I was suspecting gayreen as scum. That was the main reason I asked questions about your reads cause your read about gayreen felt really weird to me. I don't suspect him as scum with TB necessarily, not sure why you were expecting me to scum read them as a team. The way he kept his vote around as a threat and got confused after TB claim is actually scummy to me but first thing that came to my mind was the way he was asking for permissions to vote [like asking help from a more talented player] and I voted ThinkGig mainly to see what will you and GAYreenHamster do about it (and to actually remind ThinkBig to answer my question) which was disrupted with this wagon on me.

As I think it won't have the effect I wanted anymore UNVOTE: ThinkBig

I will answer anything else which was asked from me later when I have time to fully catch up and comment about stuff and will sort my reads.

Sorry for this, Have a good night

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I'm catching up

going to respond to every thing I missed

i do agree that the claim is suicide though but again i'm assuming that's for creature

Why? Why should mafia kill a vanilla claim for his claim? This makes no sense.

regarding post 308 :

As I said this is my first mafia game. The questions I asked are to let me understand the general concepts of game.

@Raskolnikov why you tried to put him in L1 if you didn't want him to claim?

GAYreenHamster was kinda opportunistic there as well but they didn't vote.

Thinkbig is not a newbie so if its known that people must claim after an intent on MS, him claiming there is actually scummy.

just seems like he's trying to parse things that are scummy, but the fact that collectively they don't seem to mesh right to me. He could argue it's TB/GAYreen from this, but the question to Rask reads in a way where he wants to find it suspicious so that angle doesn't make too much sense.

it implies scum mindset because he (at least where i stand in reads) can't be scum with TB and knows he flips town if he's scum, so this looks like he's setting up the right direction to push after the flip.

{TB, Shade, rakkar} probably contains both scum, but TB/Shade are unlikely partners. in theory rakkar is the right lynch, but I figured voting for the towniest of the three would

Let me expand my think process, The part you quoted is my opinion about the event that happened earlier in game not my reads on any of the three. I asked a question from Rask which was ignored - like the questions I asked creature that I'm not sure if he answered.

so Gayreen felt really opportunistic there- to be more precise the whole "lets push wagon" and then "Thinkbig claim" felt like a show to me. Something was not right with the event - I can't decide which participant or participants were scum in that but That was how I felt.

So I asked questions from TB and You who had a townread on Gayreen to see if I can understand where is your solid townread on Gayreen coming from. (I will get to this later).

Regarding Rask something is really bold about the vote :

VOTE: thinkbig L-1

you guys suck.

Which I think is actually pretty towny.

Thinkbig if you're actually town and just happened to check the thread via phone 10 minutes after I voted and overreacted based on an l-2 because you were on mobile and couldn't read and claimed because you didn't have time to respond because you weren't home yet and you also have your own personal theory that people should claim at l-2 without intent I've never heard about, I think I hate both you and my luck.

And I think This is a town reacting to that out of nowhere claim because its to genuine.

Its not something strong but that's the only thing I got from that interaction (and since that was the only particular AI event in game and the only thing Rask did in game till that point, that was the only thing my read was based on).

Regarding TB I think there is a good chance that he is town who claimed like that but I can't understand why. It just makes no sense to react like that and vanish. - yes I'm not as active as you guys are but I wasn't informed that game was started first to day and I got really busy in past 3 days because of a RL issue that's not my point - My point is he reacted to pressure once before which means he was following the game then. The fact he is coming to thread to say hello and vanishes again with empty promises is in line with last assumption (he doesn't want to be replaced). so I want him to actually come in the game and contributes - not just to lurk in the shadows (thats why him not being here is different from my absence).

So I voted him there to see if he will respond to pressure and to see Gayreen and Giga reaction to it. Gayreen never showed up and Giga initiated a wagon on me instead - for him thinking I should have suspected a TB/Gayreen team because of that which makes no sense.

So regarding all the requests for me telling you my solid reads. When you say solid you don't expect me to solve the game right now, right? cause thats just so stupid. I'm not sure how people are crossing names from their lists - if its based on meta or how they feel good about something someone else did - but as much as stupid that is, saying this will flip scum and gg is. I have some initial reads that are as follow but that's it and very likely that will be it till I get some information to work with (that I have no idea what I'm going to do with them - but I can promise I can't give a solid read based on nothing subtle).

Regarding Creature they feel genuine in their behavior and they were helpful in general, and they have no solidified reads (their reads are floating and changing based on game events) which is townish.

This is Giga opinion about Gayreen vote jump :

giga how do you interpret gayreen willingness to put think to l-1 without comment?

that and not that much info in general (though still more than think/rak) makes me not feel safe clearing him just yet

felt like newbie sheeping the experienced players which is obviously bad play but the nonchalantness makes me think of PS! meta

like

usually people just sit around with their hands under their laps and wait for the loudest/most experienced person to decide which lurker to arbitrarily lynch (or for another loud townie to call the loud townie scum)

so i'm going to call it NAI for the most part

plus i think he's played enough games to know that voting for no reason is considered scummy and he'd want to keep the towncred he got from pointing out schadd_'s "soft" if he were actually scum here

and there's also the fact he didn't suspect me for having reads too quickly which was also part of what got me ml'd in our last game together (and our only game in recent memory tbh)

so yeah it's mostly a meta read

Meta is standing for their older games and what you know about them right?

So your saying they were keeping their vote to keep their towncred , to sheep the most town person , to get the opportunity to push a claim and end the day and those behaviors are NAI. what would a scum gayreen do in that situation then? I have no idea how him asking others to get permission for voting (to push the blame on others or to see what their scumbuddy wants) can be townish.

and the last sentence seems really naive thinking tbh.

I'm not done with catching up in this. Have patient as I have to leave PC Atm. will do the rest of this later tonight - maybe in multiple steps like this one

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[L-1] ThinkBig - schadd_, gigabyteTroubadour, Raskolnikov, -Grey-

This seems really hypocritical of gigabyteTroubadour - seems like he wants it both ways around (to push me who pushed TB and to push TB)

I'm not there yet but I don't like the gesture of that vote at list.

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Why? Why should mafia kill a vanilla claim for his claim? This makes no sense.

Claiming VT as scum early kind of locks you into that claim and if town has no more options they'll lynch you for safety.

What do you mean?

Claiming a power role will surely kill them cause they might get trapped in a paradox. Claiming a vanilla makes them one of the not power roles which are so many people. How being in that group is a trap for them?

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Claiming early is bad for scum. If we ever decide to lynch him (possibly for being a VT claim), that'll be it and he can't even bring down a PR with him.

oh yeah, that made sense now thanks

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VOTE: ThinkBig

post or perish shade wagon stopped being interesting and didnt get scummy reactions optimal play regardless of aligment yadda yadda yadda

Whats the meaning of this? I wasn't even online then to react.

I liked post 347 though. what is that about me your paranoid about?

352 : Thanks for the offer but I don't think I can handle any more games [guess that off was to me as well]

People who put me down in their lists saying my behavior is either newbie or a scum faking being a newbie : I am a newbie and that has no relationship to my alignment or I can't understand the things your concerned about. This is my first mafia game ever. The only knowledge I had about this game was "there are some bad people who know each other and the majority of players need to find and expose them" and how some specific players in MafiaScum claim being good but they aren't (from the related person I spoke about earlier!) so I'm sorry if I'm making no sense.

but please instead of saying he can fake that stuff try to explain to me these stuff. I like to see whats going on - and I hope I can be more useful later.

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@Shade if you think Rask, and ThinkBig are town then who are you scumreading?

I didn't say I think ThinkBig is town. I simply have no idea about what they are and given the fact they claimed they need to get sorted before others. I still don't agree that them claiming vanilla means their town straight away. Its definitely not optimal scum move but that won't make it it town. That slot needs to talk and clarify and him posting empty promises to not getting replaced is not ok.

I think gayreen , Giga or maybe schad but I'm not done with reading this yet.

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can you look over my post #648 (toward the bottom of page 26) and just help me follow your reasoning when it goes scumwards or weird from my perspective?

sure I will do that now

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SHADE MASTERPOST:

shade comes in at #211. standard high polish intro post, notes delay before engagement in the game. NAI, this is the first post of an excited noob imo

Yeah that's pretty much what it was. as I said I wan't informed that the game is started so when I realized that - I made a post explining it and telling that I won't be able to read so many pages which were already posted when I was at work

shade is answering posts in order 7hrs later (#213), doesnt see gbT say dont answer RQS. breakdown of this post: curiosity, curiosity, curiosity, confusion, townlean, correction statement, thinking about gbT's thought processes (townlean???), NAI imo, GOOD TOWN VIBES, SAME, paranoia (town? NAI?), curiosity, unsure how to parse (town? NAI?). HUGE post -- but catchup, so fair.

about GBT thing your commenting about me saying "I like the way this idea was developed" ? Yes I liked the way he parsed his idea there about ThinkBig RQS but as I explained further in that post or in my next posts having a solid read based on that felt silly. so yeah I actually felt it was a fair standpoint in game for giga to be on ThinkBig there and the idea was fair.

what is the paranoia your referring to? If its about gayreen I think I answered it in the first post I made tonight? if not can you please be more specific with your question?

Is the fact I'm writing stuff in one post bothering people?

2 hrs later #225 continues the trend of massive wallposts. breakdown as follows: acknowledgement, curiosity + slight townlean, NAI imo, fair observation about game speed. smaller post but also all just followups on people responding to first wall. corrects self in another post and apologizes for mistake.

rapidly dwindling wallpost size evident in #252 about 46 (!!!!!!) hrs later. breakdown: socializing, townlean, curiosity/NAI, light (almost non-) reads (prelim readlist seems to go rask-> townlean, tb-> scumlean). how can you have only such weak reads by now?

yep that's 2 days later than my first appearance. In the night in the middle, I was so exhausted so I forgot the game.

regarding my weak reads I just made a post explaining my whole reads in first post I made today. I have no idea what do you expect from me - but whatever man. That's the much I got so that's the much you get from me. Maybe some information help my reads.

2 min later, naked vote on TB "to see what will happen" in post #253. tb is not active at this point. creature said, "scum votes this way". inclined to agree.

#255, called out by creature for the naked vote. defensiveness but tone read gets humor, not indignance. not feeling town vibes here. justification is thin, parroted/sheepy

#272 defense of naked vote around an hour later. breakdown: fair point, WEIRD, fair, WEIRD, fair, noobtell NAI imo. i want outside input on the two WEIRD parts.[/quoted]

I didn't defend my vote here. My vote was There cause I had no better place to vote and I wanted to see how people who made that wagon will work with my vote and to see TB talk. Its not weird cause he wasn't around. He wasn't around supposedly when he claimed! He is obviously dodging the thread after being called out for his sudden claim. Thats obvious as day - I'm just not sure if that means he is just doing somthing really bad for town or is scum - leaning on second obviously cause it makes no sense. How is that weird to ask what about my vote was scummy? creature said it was scummy but never tried to explain that so I could defend.

49 hrs (!!!!!!) later, last post #494. breakdown: explanation of absence, talking to mod, interesting reasoning that needs analysis, unvote tb (50hrs after vote), promise to answer things when they catch up.

The Timings tell you I wasn't around. As I said something about RL happened and I couldn't contribute. I really can't do anything about it.

and yeah I'm not still done catching up - if there is something else needs to be answered I will when I reach it.

needs analysis. im not convinced on this reasoning -- gayreen was looking for someone to say "yeah go for it" but didnt actually do it, that reads town af to me? idk... maybe grey is the slot we should re-examine?

Look at those posts and tell me if you don't feel something was wrong. It was like he wasn't sure what was better for him there or he wanted to sheep another town there. His reaction after that claim is also so weird. Its not about the fact he didn't vote its about the way he was posting then.

how is that town af?

needs analysis, my take on why these stand out: weird to criticize rasks vote then do the same thing. and weird that he didnt recognize the diff between his naked vote and others, but idk how to parse that.

I didn't done what he did. Thinkbig was already claimed when I voted him. Rask voted him but got surprised after that. and I actually didn't criticize what they did cause they didn't ask for claim and that was think big slip/mistake/whatever not rask's doing. I asked that question from rask to see if they will treat their own vote as a tool they used for getting claim or will say that the mistake was from thinkbig.

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I need to leave again. I will try to continue my catchup if there are no ongoing conversations about my recent posts in my next appearance.

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ah and the formatting of that post is wrong! I'm so sorry, I guess my answers are inside the quote as well

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I didn't quote myself.

I quoted parts of your post but accidentally put my own answers inside its text.

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@mod I'm asking to replace out

I'm really sorry everyone but I just can't keep up with this pace of game. I know its my bad that I can't and its not fair to you who wants to play the game with more active players so I decided to replace out.

I might try this game again when my current project finishes or in next summer.

Thanks for the game though! This was fun.

Good luck everyone!