Mini 535: Pick Your Poison 2 (Game Over!)

[Patrick]

Votecount

Bookitty (1) -- Ether
Ether (2) -- ckillor, YvonneSeer
JDodge (1) -- perfect628
skitzer (2) -- Porochaz, JDodge
YvonneSeer (2) -- thedragonsprincess, Gorrad

Not voting: scotmany12, JordanA24, skitzer, Bookitty
12 alive, 7 to lynch.

[JDodge]

How did I do such?

The way you spoke of YvonneSeer possibly being a weak doc implied knowledge, not speculation. There are only 2 possible ways for you to possess this knowledge:

1. You are scum
   
2. You are a weak doc

If 2 was true, you would

not have speculated that Yvonne was a weak doc

. Thus I can only deduce that 1 is true.

[Bookitty]

Hmmm, on a reread, I'm going to agree with JDodge on this, and add this:

FoS: YvonneSeer

She is possibly weak doc who doesn't like her role, but still...

Pointing out a possible powerrole is NOT pro-town play. Why would a townie EVER tell the scum who they think ANY of the powerroles are, much less a possible doc, deliberately pointing them out for a nightkill?

vote: Skitzer

[Porochaz]

Answering a question: Almost all of skitzers replys have been very off so far. I feel that his latest weak doc thing justifies my vote. However if you were to ignore that and look at his other posts I dont have to go to far to find something else scummy about him, for instance:

Vote: 1-Shot Vig

The encryptor could be dangerous if we decide to massclaim. The Mafia could freely discuss how they wanted to split the claims between powerroles and town

Also

fos YvonneSeer

for this whole bandwagoning thing, making yourself look scummy to try and see how you fare does not help the town.

[YvonneSeer]

Yeah well, I have to try out a different playstyle sooner or later. Also, I'm not saying that what I'm doing is definitely pro-town. I'm just trying to spark a new discussion which is starting to work, because we're now shifting focus onto other players instead of letting them slip under the radar. Moreover, JDodge and Bookitty have recently picked up something from skitzer's commenting on my bandwagoning. So, I wouldn't say that I had no reason to help town with my actions.

[scotmany12]

Skitzer, do you want to respond to jdodge's accusations? He makes some very good points and I am interested in what you have to say.

[skitzer]

sorry, i was gone.

The way I see it, I just pointed out a possibility. It is very likely that scum did give us a weak doc. That was the first thing that came to mind when YS jumped bandwagons. I'd read that it's not very fun to have dumb roles, so I figured YS was purposely trying to get herself lynched. Plus, I misread the weak doc PM, and thought it stated "all protects will fail". I can see why that was scummy, now that you mention it.

@Porochaz I chose the one shot Vig because it was better than the other choices to me. I just don't think that an encryptor is a good idea. Roleblocker and rolecop were just plain not good chocies. Because the scum are talking during the day now, they can point out things to each other that they may have forgotten during Night.

[scotmany12]

If someone doesn't like their role, they usually lurk throughout the game and end up being replaced. They don't go out of their way to have themselves lynched unless they are a jester.

[perfect628]

Eh I'm not sure how much I believe skitzer. He seemed to just brush off the accusation. Doesn't really warant a vote, nut

FoS:skitzer

. Also,

Unvote:JDodge

. Random voting seems to be coming to a close.

[Porochaz]

sorry, i was gone.

The way I see it, I just pointed out a possibility. It is very likely that scum did give us a weak doc. That was the first thing that came to mind when YS jumped bandwagons. I'd read that it's not very fun to have dumb roles, so I figured YS was purposely trying to get herself lynched. Plus, I misread the weak doc PM, and thought it stated "all protects will fail".

that would make no sense, why the hell would you think that, thats like looking at an orange and going "mmm thats a lovely shade of blue"

I can see why that was scummy, now that you mention it.

@Porochaz I chose the one shot Vig because it was better than the other choices to me. I just don't think that an encryptor is a good idea. Roleblocker and rolecop were just plain not good chocies. Because the scum are talking during the day now, they can point out things to each other that they may have forgotten during Night.

But you do know they can talk during the next night as well, Giving scum an extra kill is very stupid,giving scum the encryptor role is not very useful as anything they could say suring the day could be said at night before they kill- no advantage

[Ether]

You wrote a long post defending your roleblocker idea, but you didn't share it. I don't understand why, having put the work into that, you didn't feel that your thoughts would be useful to the town. I mean, it was already written, and I know for myself when I write something lengthy, I tend to post it just on the basis that I put a lot of work into it.

In preference to actually sharing your own ideas (and apparently opening yourself up to attack), you chose to attack someone else who had had the same idea, and make a case out of that person changing their mind.

I find it easy to type a post as long as I have an opinion to type it about. I changed my mind

because

you changed your mind. If you had not, I would also have continued to back the roleblocker with arguments (which I can still provide if anyone is actually interested). And I've clearly shared my own ideas--ideas more relevant and controversial than anyone else in Day 0. I have said all of this repeatedly.

You've had to clarify pretty much every point you've made, and that's why I asked you to make your points in question form, so I knew what was rhetorical accusation and what you actually wanted a response to.

I consider everything something to respond to. The confusion point is fair.

most of your posts were filled with accusations about my usual playstyle (false, and I believe you knew them to be false if you'd considered it)

Only the original bit, and the accusation wasn't that your train of thought moved on but that I couldn't see what your train of thought actually

was.

you yourself are ignoring posts like this:

Ether, I have no idea what you're trying to get at. Sorry! :very happy:

which arguably is about as specific as your posts directed at me have been, but apparently didn't merit a response from you.

I

did

respond to that in 54.

Read: how are you not stifling discussion?

I absolutely agree that this argument has derailed useful discussion, cost the town the random vote phase that might have allowed some analysis on other people (though I don't accept responsibility for that part), and has largely monopolised the conversation.

I asked this in comparison with the accusation that I was stifling discussion. I love discussion--I love it so much that I got the ball rolling on my first post in the game, and was dismayed to see that no one wanted anything to do with it, even after they

could

vote people.

I made a discussion and tried to drag people into it. I failed miserably.

On a related theme, if I were sure you were scum, or even moderately convinced of it, I wouldn't care about you calling it OMGUS. I'd just vote you. But with the bandwagon building on you, I'm viewing that as a point in your favour, ironically enough.

...h-heh.

I continued to attack you because of your backhanded, often misrepresentative jabs at me without putting your vote where your mouth was (or anywhere relevant at all). All right--

unvote

.

I don't think Skitzer's scum, though. WIFOM games over his ignorance of the weakdoc (and his naïve 96 in general). I think the scum would have gone over the roles more thoroughly.

I want to know what Yvonne's stances on Skitzer and me actually

are.

Same question to Gorrad.

He seemed to just brush off the accusation.

That's one thing he

didn't

do.

[skitzer]

I think the big tizzy between you and Bookitty was just that, a tizzy. It just seemed to be a big misunderstanding/argument, I don't think either is scum right now, though this is something to be noted.

[Gorrad]

Sure thing. Ether, I really think you and Bookitty are both town, and were really not arguing hard, more of a debate. If one of y'all HAD to be scum, it would be you, but I really think y'all are both pro-town.

Skitzer, on the other hand, is pretty scummy. I didn't like the weak-doc deal one bit. I still feel my vote is better on Yvonne though.

[JDodge]

I don't think Skitzer's scum, though. WIFOM games over his ignorance of the weakdoc (and his naïve 96 in general). I think the scum would have gone over the roles more thoroughly.

Ignorance and naivety have nothing to do with it; I'd actually say you just (slightly) hinted at the existance of the weak doc, although that's less of a scumtell for you.

[Ether]

Scumbag Bob: So I'm thinking weakdoc/doctor/vig would screw them over good. No information roles.
Scumbag Lisa: It's more complicated than that. Weakdoc

is

an information role.
Scumbag Pepito: So what about that cop? It's only any good once it knows its sanity, and we can probably WIFOM a godfather in.
Scumbag Lisa: Would a vig be a threat to a godfather?
Scumbag Bob: Probably not.
Scumbag Pepito: ^_^

[healthy discussion about town power roles ensues]

I think ignorance and naïvety do have something to do with it. (My reference was to weakdocs as a role, not as a specific person

with

the role. I'm unsure how it's a hint.)

vote roleblocker and godfather

I think the first one is the best option, the second was chosen due to me not liking the rest... vig, I dont want the mafia to get an extra kill, the encryptor allows all mafia to speak all the time, if that person is alive then it benifits them all rather than the one person, the cop I wrote down initially but then realised what were the chances mafia chose vig for town if they haven't then the NK'ing doesn't really matter, the cop investigations could be a bit of a blow but then were unsure of the cops sanity anyway.

However if you were to ignore that and look at his other posts I dont have to go to far to find something else scummy about him, for instance:

Vote: 1-Shot Vig

The encryptor could be dangerous if we decide to massclaim. The Mafia could freely discuss how they wanted to split the claims between powerroles and town

@Porochaz I chose the one shot Vig because it was better than the other choices to me. I just don't think that an encryptor is a good idea. Roleblocker and rolecop were just plain not good chocies. Because the scum are talking during the day now, they can point out things to each other that they may have forgotten during Night.

But you do know they can talk during the next night as well, Giving scum an extra kill is very stupid,giving scum the encryptor role is not very useful as anything they could say suring the day could be said at night before they kill- no advantage

I agree that Skitzer's 23 sucked, but your defense of the encryptor

specifically

feels weird.

[JDodge]

But ignorance and naivety aren't the

issue

; the issue is implied knowledge. Unless I'm misinterpreting what you're saying entirely.

[Bookitty]

Skitzer, do you think it's a protown action to identify and point out a town powerrole when you think you've spotted one? Why or why not?

[JordanA24]

Vote: Skitzer

, that mention of Weak Doc looked very odd IMO.

Random voting seems to be coming to a close.

Erm, it finished ages ago.

[skitzer]

Skitzer, do you think it's a protown action to identify and point out a town powerrole when you think you've spotted one? Why or why not?

I meant to point out that there is a possibility she isn't scum and we shouldn't jump to conclusions.

[perfect628]

Eh, whatever. skitzer is becoming increasingly suspicious, especially b/c of what jdodge caught. I won't have much time til Wednesday, so I'll hold off my vote. I'll also post my thoughts then.

[scotmany12]

Skitzer, do you think it's a protown action to identify and point out a town powerrole when you think you've spotted one? Why or why not?

I meant to point out that there is a possibility she isn't scum and we shouldn't jump to conclusions.

But... you voted her. Is that not jumping to conclusions?

[skitzer]

If you are talking aobut my first vote, that was a random vote.

[scotmany12]

My fault, you fosed her. I could have swore you voted her but nm then. Still though, why would you point out a powerrole? As town, we want to keep them hidden from the scum.

[skitzer]

I don't know. I just wanted to show, that there was a possibility that someone who is seemingly scummy can always be town.

[YvonneSeer]

Hey, who said I'm trying to get myself lynched? skitzer, I think pointing out a possible powerrole was a mistake if you are town, plus your reason for doing it (misreading the weak doc PM) is quite hard to believe. Did you just make that excuse up? My vote is going back on you.

unvote, vote: skitzer