Newbie 1770: Water Game Over

[Toto]

VOTE: Fish

[Formerfish]

While Fish attacks Jin for not voting in RVS he doesn't say anything about Fykus, who is also not voting RVS. At the same time he questions me for RVS voting Moogin instead of any of pre-existing wagons. Why ask that question if he feels RVS voting is what people should be doing? He is not being consistent in his line of questioning and thoughts.

Now he asks me how accurate my day 1 reads are. Why would you ask that question as TOWN? IT MAKES NO SENSE. Seriously, if we don't lynch this guy after asking this question I don't know what else to tell you.

Jin is an SE in this game and knows the way the game is usually played. I apologize if I am going to hold the SE's and Ic in this game to a higher standard of play. Fykus is a new player who is playing in their first game and doesn't know the way it is normally played. For him my reaction is going to be a little bit different. Same way as if a child hit me I would talk to them, but if an adult did it I'd beat their ass.

And yes I did ask you a question. And then you were never on when I was. Then you threw a naked vote down. And then there is this weird thing that happened where I tried to engage you but you acted cagey as hell and nothing was accomplished. I remember that happening, and then you started spouting off some of the most imaginative stuff I've heard recently. Then I called you on your bullshit.

Consistency is a bullshit concept in this game because everyone is at a different skill level, which is eveident nowhere else more than it is here where we are literally divided into different levels based on our experience. You don't treat everyone the same, or you do and suck for it.

And yes I ask about your accuracy. I did a quick meta dive on you and saw that you just finished a game as scum where you lead the mislynch of a vt on day 1. I want to know how accurate your reads are on day 1. Why you ask? Because I am trying to figure out if you are town with a hard-on for the wrong person, or scum trying to lay the foundation of the first mislynch.

I'll be working backwards here, so be prepared.

[Formerfish]

VOTE: Fish

It's funny. Someone comes out of left field with a fully formed read on page what, 6 or 7, and there seams to be no question about it, right? Well imagine a world where you are wrong (that is going to be this world, its just the same one we are already in) and pushing this is going to lead only to your lynch and my death. We can forget all the other shit right now and make this about you and me, but I assure you that the outcome will not be favorable to you, so if you are town, you need to reconsider your target here and take me at my word for the moment.

[Formerfish]

You guys don't find it odd that Fish doesn't scum read me? Why is he not wondering if I'm scum trying to get rid of him? I'm pretty much defending his BS attack on Jin which apparently is his top scum read and why is he not wondering if I'm Jin's partner.

This is an interesting post to make before you and I really had a chance to sit across from each other and test the waters. Like I said i made an attempt the other night and it went nowhere. Now you say this before I have a chance to really sit down with the thread at home and respond, you ask why im not scum reading you. So now if I come out and say that I am it looks like I am just reacting how i think people think I should. And if I dont react then that is scummy.

I will point out that Toto on me is what seems to be a classic display of a chainsaw defense for Jin, so if anything I would say that maybe Toto is pissed off scum (you know since I smoked Jin out on page 1) trying to discredit me by pulling together a weak ass case and then hardlining me.

[Formerfish]

LMAO so that was a real question?

Do you normally make flawed and shitty arguments against people? What is your record of flawed and shitty scumreads turning into scum flips?

I"ve always loved the "I don't like the way you phrased the question, so I'm not going to answer it" technique. I especially love when I rephrase without all of the intended bite and still being told that I'm not going to get an answer.

When this is someone who is willing to lay a scum read on me based off the fact that there was a question I haven't been militant about getting an answer for, i find it funny that they are so resistant to actually answering any of them.

[Formerfish]

Toto what's up with that complacent tone? Why are you acting like this?

Toto, I'll put this here too since I don't remember seeing a reply to it. Guess that means that Tier is my partner, right? Cause they aren't pressuring you to answer that question.

[Toto]

Toto what's up with that complacent tone? Why are you acting like this?

Toto, I'll put this here too since I don't remember seeing a reply to it. Guess that means that Tier is my partner, right? Cause they aren't pressuring you to answer that question.

I don't know what a complacent tone is

[Toto]

LMAO so that was a real question?

Do you normally make flawed and shitty arguments against people? What is your record of flawed and shitty scumreads turning into scum flips?

I"ve always loved the "I don't like the way you phrased the question, so I'm not going to answer it" technique. I especially love when I rephrase without all of the intended bite and still being told that I'm not going to get an answer.

When this is someone who is willing to lay a scum read on me based off the fact that there was a question I haven't been militant about getting an answer for, i find it funny that they are so resistant to actually answering any of them.

I have played 4 games as town. Of all of them my top two scum reads one of them was scum on day 1. In this one my top two are you and fykus.

[Toto]

Then I called you on your bullshit.

wait, where did you do this exactlY?

[Toto]

I"ve always loved the "I don't like the way you phrased the question, so I'm not going to answer it"

I'll return the favor: how often does this happen to you when you are scum?

[Toto]

pushing this is going to lead only to your lynch and my death.

Fine. You claimed PR. Making sure this is in my ISO if I get NK'ed tonight and not the supposed PR. You might as well do a full claim so we can confirm you and move on.

[TierShift]

It seems to me like this game is built on paranoia and paranoia leads to bad judgement. We'd be better on random lynching first round and seeing how everyone reacts after.

That's just my two cents in gamerlogic.

This is not how it works. This might be true for the day 1 lynch. But afterwards we will have information to work with, who joined what wagon, etc. We can afterwards deduce who is scum. That is why we all put forth arguments for who we think is scum. Because scum also have to put forth these arguments then, and they might slip up.

Now, i want you to also share your thoughts on who you think is scum.

[TierShift]

Toto what's up with that complacent tone? Why are you acting like this?

Toto, I'll put this here too since I don't remember seeing a reply to it. Guess that means that Tier is my partner, right? Cause they aren't pressuring you to answer that question.

I don't know what a complacent tone is

In our previous game you seemed like you wanted to work with everyone. In this game, you act like you know it all without interacting a whole lot.

[TierShift]

Toto however confident you are in your bullshit argument there is absolutely NO PLACE AT ALL talking about PR's day 1.

[TierShift]

While Fish attacks Jin for not voting in RVS he doesn't say anything about Fykus, who is also not voting RVS. At the same time he questions me for RVS voting Moogin instead of any of pre-existing wagons. Why ask that question if he feels RVS voting is what people should be doing? He is not being consistent in his line of questioning and thoughts.

Now he asks me how accurate my day 1 reads are. Why would you ask that question as TOWN? IT MAKES NO SENSE. Seriously, if we don't lynch this guy after asking this question I don't know what else to tell you.

I'm wondering if this is a serious case or just trying to probe

[TierShift]

Fish, what is your read on toto?

[TierShift]

Moogin, why are you not pushing for someone right now?
You seemed to think fykus was scum before, have you just forgotten him?
VOTE: moogin

[TierShift]

Nydusher I also don't recall seeing something useful from you. Who's scum?

Tot and fish you really need to stop yur pathetic dance because we need the newbies to participate more not hide behind and inbetween your walls

[MooginSoosy]

I haven't forgotten about fykus, and was curious about why fykus responded to Toto voting for them but not me voting for them. Either he's trying not to act suspicious like he did with you, he didn't notice, or he was more interested in Toto voting for him.

I figured there would be a huge wall of text between fish and Toto so I wanted to hold off for a little bit and see what was said. However it seems to me they're both just going back and forth and there's not too much substance there. I think Toto is super suspicious with how aggressive and "know it all" (as I believe you put it) he's being, but it might just be he's super convinced that fish is scum.

I don't know how aggressive I'm supposed to go after someone, especially if they don't respond. So I guess I'll try being more aggressive?

Fykus. What do you think of the claims I made against you and my vote against you?

[nydushermain]

I'll post later today. I've been busy sorry!

[Formerfish]

Then I called you on your bullshit.

wait, where did you do this exactlY?

I know that nuance can be difficult to understand, but I'll show where I believe it was evident that I thought your line of thinking was contrived.

Are you going to elaborate on your own, or did something happen in your past were you need to be nudged along each time someone is expecting something from you.

If that is the case, I guess I can deal. However you do acknowledge the fact that Jins shit posting is counterproductive and could be seen as a confusing way of play, and you are being just as dodgy as he was to my questions.

Up to this point your entire iso reads:
1. VOTE: MooginSoosy Hi!
2. I like the RSPS idea. BUT. This is a newbie. We should not encourage such behaviors. Yet.
3. Still waiting for a couple of people to post or get replaced.
4. Fykus what's your take on FormerFish's aggressiveness and questioning?
5. VOTE: Fykus
6. What would you like to hear from me?
7. Fykus is probably scum.

Thats not even me paraphrasing your posts. Those are the actual posts. So yeah, I need you to talk about your reads and the way that they progressed so that I can determine your alignment. See we are at a point now where thats the only important thing.

Ok. So If I make a good theory about scum!formerfish will you vote him with me?

You aren't voting me now...

I'll get to you later Toto.

I dislike the avenue of attack you've chosen as it's flawed and shitty.

Do you normally make flawed and shitty arguments against people? What is your record of flawed and shitty scumreads turning into scum flips?

I think that calling someones views flawed and shitty is a pretty direct way of calling someone on some bullshit line of thinking. Can you think of a better or more direct way?

[Formerfish]

I"ve always loved the "I don't like the way you phrased the question, so I'm not going to answer it"

I'll return the favor: how often does this happen to you when you are scum?

I'm not sure what you are asking here. How often do people not answer questions I ask when I am scum?

[Formerfish]

pushing this is going to lead only to your lynch and my death.

Fine. You claimed PR. Making sure this is in my ISO if I get NK'ed tonight and not the supposed PR. You might as well do a full claim so we can confirm you and move on.

Not a fucking chance am I going to claim right now. What benefit does this give to the town right now? The only thing that me full claiming would do is give the scum team knowledge of who else might be in the game for us, and where they should shoot tonight. With the shitty push on me, and this right here is enough for you to see rope imo.

[Formerfish]

Toto what's up with that complacent tone? Why are you acting like this?

Toto, I'll put this here too since I don't remember seeing a reply to it. Guess that means that Tier is my partner, right? Cause they aren't pressuring you to answer that question.

I don't know what a complacent tone is

In our previous game you seemed like you wanted to work with everyone. In this game, you act like you know it all without interacting a whole lot.

What was his alignment in the previous game? Do you think his behavior this game is alignment indicative?

[Formerfish]

Fish, what is your read on toto?

Probable scum, excellent day 1 lynch prospect.

VOTE: Toto