Newbie 1770: Water Game Over

[Pepchoninga]

Toto who do you think is scum.

Also who do YOU think are the scum on your wagon.

[Toto]

I don't follow. It would only reveal the potential set up we are playing. Say you claim doctor.

That means there can not be any Jailkeeper or Bulletproof. So if anyone else is a Doctor, Jailkeeper or Bulletproof they would counter claim. If they are cop or tracker they would just say 'No counter claim', same as everyone else. If everyone says 'No counter-claim' you are confirmed. If someone counter claims we lynch you.

And now he is talking about setup props. Why would a power role ever reveal itself day one like that. Especially people like the doctor that don't really have any benefit from revealing until late game if they end up living for that long. If they do claim:
1) Scum can easily counterclaim and either get the player lynched or kill them at night.
2) scum can do nothing and laugh as they kill the player without anybody noticing.

Your thinking is comming from scum perspective.

Scum like to fly under the radar. I had already seen the PR softclaim. I had 0 reasons as scum to even bring it up.

[Toto]

My scum read claimed he is a PR. All I want to know if he is telling the truth or not.

Anyway, if you lynch me, and fish is alive tomorrow make him claim

[Formerfish]

I am town and I'll claim at the time of my choosing and in the manner I decide.

See that's the beauty of being a PR. There is no ambiguity about my play because eventually I will be shuffled off this mortal coil. Then is when the fun starts because if you don't get lynched today, Toto, you probably will tomorrow when I flip green as fuck.

[Toto]

Im ok trading 1:1 with scum. You wont die. Because you're scum.

[Toto]

If you are a PR prove it now. Get me lynched.

[Toto]

If I was scum I would already know if you are a PR or not based on your claim. I don't know and Im asking you to claim your actual role to confirm yourself. Your denial to do so is a scumclaim.

[Pepchoninga]

I am town and I'll claim at the time of my choosing and in the manner I decide.

See that's the beauty of being a PR. There is no ambiguity about my play because eventually I will be shuffled off this mortal coil. Then is when the fun starts because if you don't get lynched today, Toto, you probably will tomorrow when I flip green as fuck.

So you saying that you belive that you will be killed.

[Pepchoninga]

My scum read claimed he is a PR. All I want to know if he is telling the truth or not.

Anyway, if you lynch me, and fish is alive tomorrow make him claim

Is Fish your only SR?

[Pepchoninga]

I don't follow. It would only reveal the potential set up we are playing. Say you claim doctor.

That means there can not be any Jailkeeper or Bulletproof. So if anyone else is a Doctor, Jailkeeper or Bulletproof they would counter claim. If they are cop or tracker they would just say 'No counter claim', same as everyone else. If everyone says 'No counter-claim' you are confirmed. If someone counter claims we lynch you.

And now he is talking about setup props. Why would a power role ever reveal itself day one like that. Especially people like the doctor that don't really have any benefit from revealing until late game if they end up living for that long. If they do claim:
1) Scum can easily counterclaim and either get the player lynched or kill them at night.
2) scum can do nothing and laugh as they kill the player without anybody noticing.

Your thinking is comming from scum perspective.

Scum like to fly under the radar. I had already seen the PR softclaim. I had 0 reasons as scum to even bring it up.

This ain't completely true. In newbies, yes, probably.

[Toto]

Tier please tell us if fish claiming his role would confirm if he is lying or not. You are the IC and can not lie about game theory.

Fish, if you are town scum already know you are a PR. You don't lose anything by claiming your actual role.

[Toto]

My scum read claimed he is a PR. All I want to know if he is telling the truth or not.

Anyway, if you lynch me, and fish is alive tomorrow make him claim

Is Fish your only SR?

Fish and fykus. Already explained this.

[Toto]

I woukd carefully review the wagon tomorrow though. Could be you or nydush

[Pepchoninga]

Tier please tell us if fish claiming his role would confirm if he is lying or not. You are the IC and can not lie about game theory.

Fish, if you are town scum already know you are a PR. You don't lose anything by claiming your actual role.

This isn't really game theory.

[Pepchoninga]

My scum read claimed he is a PR. All I want to know if he is telling the truth or not.

Anyway, if you lynch me, and fish is alive tomorrow make him claim

Is Fish your only SR?

Fish and fykus. Already explained this.

I woukd carefully review the wagon tomorrow though. Could be you or nydush

Fair enough.

[Toto]

Tier please tell us if fish claiming his role would confirm if he is lying or not. You are the IC and can not lie about game theory.

Fish, if you are town scum already know you are a PR. You don't lose anything by claiming your actual role.

This isn't really game theory.

It is. It is also bare logic.

[nydushermain]

Tier please tell us if fish claiming his role would confirm if he is lying or not. You are the IC and can not lie about game theory.

Fish, if you are town scum already know you are a PR. You don't lose anything by claiming your actual role.

The only thing that confirms whether or not he's lying is if he dies in the night or day... Him claiming what role he is does nothing. If he's PR, he claims whatever he is. If he's scum, he just lies. What does him claiming his exact role have anything to do with anything? You're just scum trying to see if he really is a PR or not, or which one he is. Your push makes zero sense.

[Toto]

It does god dammit. I already explained this. Tier please confirm this. You can not lie.

Look at the set up table in post 1. He can not claim anything without the other prs knowing if he is lying or not.

[MooginSoosy]

Ok, I'm starting to see where it makes sense. I still am completely missing where fish soft claimed PR. was it in a private message or something? Can you quote it if it's in the public forum?

[nydushermain]

It does god dammit. I already explained this. Tier please confirm this. You can not lie.

Look at the set up table in post 1. He can not claim anything without the other prs knowing if he is lying or not.

Fair point... ish... so let's look at the setup.

Either scum have a roleblocker or just vanilla mafia.

if they have:

A) ROLEBLOCKER:
1) Jailkeeper + Bulletproof
2) Cop + Doctor

B) VANILLA MAFIA:
1) Cop
2) Jailkeeper
3) Doctor + Tracker

[nydushermain]

I think I'm missing a setup somewhere.

[nydushermain]

Ah. Tracker + Bulletproof for scenario B.

[nydushermain]

I don't get why you're still pushing on him though... You already showed that you were going to wait by voting on fykus no? And now you're back on him?

[Toto]

Because he is not backing down. He really wants to get rid of me.

Moogin. He said again he is a PR in post 303

[nydushermain]

Your theory falls apart slightly toto on the offchance that scenarios B) 1) and 2) are the case. If he knows that there is no roleblocker and he's scum (obv), then 50% of the role setups have no second. That means that if he claims doctor or bulletproof, he can land in the scenario where he gets the right claim in B)1) and B)2).