Open 670: Near Vanilla (Over)

[Creature]

Votecount 1.1

Votecount 1.1

[0] Lil Uzi Vert
[0] BlueBloodedToffee
[0] Pepchoninga
[1] MagnaofIllusion - Toto
[0] KainTepes
[0] Lowell
[0] VeeGee
[0] Riley Cake
[1] Toto - Hawk
[0] Sesq
[3] nebula - MagnaofIllusion, Lowell, BlueBloodedToffee
[1] Music Box - nebula
[0] Fredrick E Campbell
[0] Hawk

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: Lil Uzi Vert, Pepchoninga, KainTepes, VeeGee, Riley Cake, Sesq, Music Box, Fredrick E Campbell

14 players are alive, therefore 8 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-02-13 13:10:00)

[Music Box]

VOTE: Hawk

He asked for a wagon on him so I'm obliging.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Music Box

[Music Box]

You spelt Hawk wrong.

[nebula]

VOTE: Music Box

Everyone seems to be making votes for silly reasons; however, you are the only one who made a vote with no other context provided. Why is that?

Also.

UNVOTE:

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why hasn't the wagon on Nebula grown?

[nebula]

Why hasn't the wagon on Nebula grown?

Why do you want it to grow when the premise of your argument was shown to be invalid?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because I think it's a fantastic wagon regardless of Hellfire's replace out. That was just an added bonus.

[nebula]

Because I think it's a fantastic wagon regardless of Hellfire's replace out. That was just an added bonus.

Why do you believe that it is a fantastic wagon?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Any starting wagon is fantastic. It just happens to be you this game.

[Hawk]

VOTE: Hawk

He asked for a wagon on him so I'm obliging.

I did what now?

[nebula]

Any starting wagon is fantastic. It just happens to be you this game.

Why do you believe that any starting wagon is fantastic?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Information.

Why are you trying to look busy?

[nebula]

Information.

Why are you trying to look busy?

How else would you suggest that I attempt to understand the rationale behind an action? I most likely would not have to keep asking questions if you were simply forthcoming with your reasoning. Your one worded response would lead me to ask "What information are you hoping to derive from a starting wagon"; however, you do not need to answer since I do not expect a helpful response.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I have been forthcoming with what I am doing.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Nebula

– Couple of questions

1. Why did you unvote Music Box but not vote LUV when you were pointing out LUV for something tha t looks like you are calling suspect behavior?
2. Do you think there is isn’t a potential to get information from an early game (basically RVS) wagon?

[Hawk]

Information.

Why are you trying to look busy?

How else would you suggest that I attempt to understand the rationale behind an action? I most likely would not have to keep asking questions if you were simply forthcoming with your reasoning. Your one worded response would lead me to ask "What information are you hoping to derive from a starting wagon"; however, you do not need to answer since I do not expect a helpful response.

Hey didn't ask you why you're inquiring into his thoughts but why you are trying to look busy. Isn't it obvious that a an early wagon can draw out information? Whether it's helpful or not it's still information.

Do you think early wagons are detrimental to town?

[MagnaofIllusion]

And now that Hellfire's ban has been retroactively reversed I'm not moving my vote as that replace-out is scummy.

[nebula]

@Nebula

– Couple of questions

1. Why did you unvote Music Box but not vote LUV when you were pointing out LUV for something tha t looks like you are calling suspect behavior?
2. Do you think there is isn’t a potential to get information from an early game (basically RVS) wagon?

Hi.

1.) I unvoted Music Box because I had no reason to have a vote on her. That was done by my predecessor. I haven't voted for Lil Uzi Vert because:
a.) He has yet to respond to my question.
b.) I do not really have a basis at this point to believe that I should be voting for him.
2.) I do not see what information can be gained simply from starting a wagon on anyone without basis.

Note: I looked up RVS in the MafiaWiki, and the third paragraph mentions "a wagon on someone may cause them to panic." So, perhaps there is some utility to a random wagon, but why not simply start questioning other players?

[nebula]

Hey didn't ask you why you're inquiring into his thoughts but why you are trying to look busy.

Hi.

Did my response not address this? Apologies if I was not clear, but I was inferring that I was not trying to look busy; rather, I was asking questions to gain a better understanding of his thoughts on why my wagon was "fantastic." If asking questions comes across as me attempting to look busy, than how else would you suggest I proceed?

Isn't it obvious that a an early wagon can draw out information? Whether it's helpful or not it's still information.

It is apparently not obvious to me. Was this meant to be rhetorical?

Do you think early wagons are detrimental to town?

Aside from the fact that they are statistically more likely to be on someone who is town, I cannot think of why they would be.

[nebula]

And now that Hellfire's ban has been retroactively reversed I'm not moving my vote as that replace-out is scummy.

I am not sure how this makes sense if the replace-out was not voluntary.

[MagnaofIllusion]

1.) I unvoted Music Box because I had no reason to have a vote on her. That was done by my predecessor. I haven't voted for Lil Uzi Vert because:
a.) He has yet to respond to my question.
b.) I do not really have a basis at this point to believe that I should be voting for him.

So you don’t believe in voting early is a benefit to the game and Town’s ability to form reads? What is your Mafia experience (aka are you an Alt)?

2.) I do not see what information can be gained simply from starting a wagon on anyone without basis.

Potentially tons. Especially info that can be mined down the line when players (especially the wagonee) have flipped.

Aside from the fact that they are statistically more likely to be on someone who is town, I cannot think of why they would be.

Statistically any wagon in the game is more likely to be on scum than Town. That’s how an informed Minority works. But the fact that you can’t think of any real reason why they are detrimental makes me wonder why you are so opposed to early voting.

I am not sure how this makes sense if the replace-out was not voluntary.

How exactly do you know that replace-out was not voluntary? I had assumed so given the Ban but the quick reversal (which is a first to my knowledge) puts that assumption in serious doubt.

[Hawk]

Hey didn't ask you why you're inquiring into his thoughts but why you are trying to look busy.

Hi.

Did my response not address this? Apologies if I was not clear, but I was inferring that I was not trying to look busy; rather, I was asking questions to gain a better understanding of his thoughts on why my wagon was "fantastic." If asking questions comes across as me attempting to look busy, than how else would you suggest I proceed?

Isn't it obvious that a an early wagon can draw out information? Whether it's helpful or not it's still information.

It is apparently not obvious to me. Was this meant to be rhetorical?

Do you think early wagons are detrimental to town?

Aside from the fact that they are statistically more likely to be on someone who is town, I cannot think of why they would be.

It's not that asking questions nesscarily looks busy it's that asking questions which might be fairly obviously answered look busy.

You saying it's not obvious to you and then not seeing why it would be detrimental tells me you clearly understand that they draw out information.

Questions are fine but they should lead somewhere.

What did you hope to understand or learn from asking the questions you did? Does BBT's explanation give you a better read on BBT or anyone else?

Pedit: Magna outlines some of what I'm trying to say here much better than I can from mobile.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Statistically any wagon in the game is more likely to be on scum than Town.

Errr ... this was supposed to say "Statistically any wagon in the game is more likely to be on

Town

than

scum

".

[nebula]

So you don’t believe in voting early is a benefit to the game and Town’s ability to form reads? What is your Mafia experience (aka are you an Alt)?

This is my first game of this style of Mafia. I have read the MafiaWiki, and I have played many games with other people in real life.

Potentially tons. Especially info that can be mined down the line when players (especially the wagonee) have flipped.

Okay. There may be a potential ton of information to be gained. I stated that I do not see it; which I do not.

Statistically any wagon in the game is more likely to be on scum than Town. That’s how an informed Minority works. But the fact that you can’t think of any real reason why they are detrimental makes me wonder why you are so opposed to early voting.

I assume you mean the inverse are there are fewer scum players than Town players. I also have not expressed opposition to early voting.

How exactly do you know that replace-out was not voluntary? I had assumed so given the Ban but the quick reversal (which is a first to my knowledge) puts that assumption in serious doubt.

The replacement statement from Creature came 31 minutes after Hellfire Missile's last post and 17 minutes after the original ban announcement. One should logically conclude that, due to the temporal proximity of the ban announcement to the replacement statement, and Hellfire Missile's recent participation, that his replace-out was not voluntary.