Open 670: Near Vanilla (Over)

[Music Box]

I did what now?

Your vote seemed too considered. Which could mean that you wanted either to avoid being on a town wagon or to switch attention away from a scum wagon. Or it could mean that you wanted to see who reacted to your vote. Your comment suggests it probably wasn't the second one.

[Toto]

I'm waiting for scum to post, any minute now.

[Sesq]

Well, I don't want to place an RVS vote, as it feels like people are starting to hunt, but I also really don't know who to go for. Readlist so far (even though it's only page 3):

BlueBloodedToffee - Really wanted a starting wagon to get forward for information. Seemed like he liked the wagon a *bit* too much early on, but otherwise seems to really just want to reveal everyone's cards.

Hawk - Questioning nebula pretty well, but I must ask him where the logic is in this paragraph, as I don't see the links.

You saying it's not obvious to you and then not seeing why it would be detrimental tells me you clearly understand that they draw out information.

Lil Uzi Vert - Randomly voted Music Box. I've played with him before, and this is far out of character for him. Hasn't done anything else substantial.

Lowell - Early on voted for nebula (then Hellfire, some real early stuff there). I don't think it's scum bandwagoning considering that it was early on and it was RVS shit.

Magna - Pointed out Hellfire's ban - and subsequent unban. I'll say here that I don't think this was some sort of plot, that would be way too elaborate to try and pull off, or maybe not, I haven't been in any troubles with mods here before. Besides that, nothing stands out to me.

Music Box - Voted on Hawk because his earlier vote seemed "considered", which is a really weak explanation without some backup, ESPECIALLY whilst in RVS.

nebula - This guy is interesting, to say the least. At first he looked pretty suspicious but after looking over his responses they're fairly solid. The one thing that sticks out is his inconsistencies about early wagons, which I would partially attribute to him being at the butt of it.

Toto - RVS vote, then "I'm waiting for scum to post", assuming that they think one of the inactive ones is scum. Given our current pool, I'm inclined to agree.

[Hawk]

I did what now?

Your vote seemed too considered. Which could mean that you wanted either to avoid being on a town wagon or to switch attention away from a scum wagon. Or it could mean that you wanted to see who reacted to your vote. Your comment suggests it probably wasn't the second one.

Are you drawing all of this from my post on p1? Cause damn that's some serious WIFOM right there... my motivations for my vote are purely RVS. I didn't want to be on that wagon cause I didn't want to play this game apart of an early wagon? If you think you can find something alignment indicative from that go for it cause you won't lol.

[Hawk]

@Sesq This is where the logic is. I snipped out all of the non important stuff.

Isn't it obvious that a an early wagon can draw out information? Whether it's helpful or not it's still information.

It is apparently not obvious to me.

Was this meant to be rhetorical?

Do you think early wagons are detrimental to town?

Aside from the fact that they are statistically more likely to be on someone who is town,

I cannot think of why they would be.

I bolded the contradiction. This is why I say he knows exactly why early wagons wold draw out information.

One second he says it's not obvious. Next he's saying he doesn't see or cannot think of why they would be detrimental.

So if they're not detrimental how is it not obvious that they could bring about something useful for town?

[Toto]

The hawk is town. Hawk get your vote off me so I can sheep you.

[Toto]

VOTE: Hawk

He asked for a wagon on him so I'm obliging.

This vote must be changed. Or I'll consider this a scumclaim.

[Toto]

FU MUSIC BOX, I gave you enough time!

VOTE: Music BOX

[Hawk]

UNVOTE: Toto
VOTE: Music Box
I don't mind Sheeping your vote Toto. If Music was able to draw that much from my RVS vote I'll like to hear what else he has to say.

At music box. What do you think about LUV's naked vote? What about Nebula?

[nebula]

@Sesq This is where the logic is. I snipped out all of the non important stuff.

Isn't it obvious that a an early wagon can draw out information? Whether it's helpful or not it's still information.

It is apparently not obvious to me.

Was this meant to be rhetorical?

Do you think early wagons are detrimental to town?

Aside from the fact that they are statistically more likely to be on someone who is town,

I cannot think of why they would be.

I bolded the contradiction. This is why I say he knows exactly why early wagons wold draw out information.

One second he says it's not obvious. Next he's saying he doesn't see or cannot think of why they would be detrimental.

So if they're not detrimental how is it not obvious that they could bring about something useful for town?

Hawk. If something is not detrimental to a party does that automatically imply that it provides some sort of utility? I am confused as to the link between the two.

For example, though in no way directly related, for most people - those with allergies aside - domestic dust provides no detriment, though maybe nuisance. However, what benefit do those people derive from domestic dust? The answer, of course, is nothing.

[nebula]

nebula - This guy is interesting, to say the least. At first he looked pretty suspicious but after looking over his responses they're fairly solid. The one thing that sticks out is his inconsistencies about early wagons, which I would partially attribute to him being at the butt of it.

Oh, hi, Sesk. Could you point out the inconsistencies, and I can try to explain them?

I think you are town.

[nebula]

Apologies, Sesq. My computer's autocorrect does not like the spelling of your name. I have added it to the dictionary.

[Hawk]

Note: I looked up RVS in the MafiaWiki, and the third paragraph mentions "a wagon on someone may cause them to panic." So, perhaps there is some utility to a random wagon, but why not simply start questioning other players?

@Nebula you are correct that some things that aren't nesscarily detrimental aren't nesscarily positive however don't ask redundant questions when you know that there is Utility to early wagons.

Also to answer your question, The psychological component from someone being questioned versus someone being pressured and possibly lynched creates a different dynamic and reaction. That's why starting and wagon versus simply starting questioning are different and produce different results

[Sesq]

nebula - This guy is interesting, to say the least. At first he looked pretty suspicious but after looking over his responses they're fairly solid. The one thing that sticks out is his inconsistencies about early wagons, which I would partially attribute to him being at the butt of it.

Oh, hi, Sesk. Could you point out the inconsistencies, and I can try to explain them?

I think you are town.

It's in Hawk's above post. As for them, your logic seems to be more solid but I just really have a gut feel towards you. Toto's sheep play is sort of alarming to me. I don't see why MB is scum beyond using bad logic.

[nebula]

@Nebula you are correct that some things that aren't nesscarily detrimental aren't nesscarily positive however don't ask redundant questions when you know that there is Utility to early wagons.

Fair point, and I will concede. I should have used past tense in that statement.

Also to answer your question, The psychological component from someone being questioned versus someone being pressured and possibly lynched creates a different dynamic and reaction. That's why starting and wagon versus simply starting questioning are different and produce different results

To question this - though perhaps this may not be the place and time - I can understand the intent of the psychological component, and the potential results from reaction. However, does not the fact that the majority of the player base understanding that we are in RVS, and thus votes amounting to almost nil in terms of sincerity, negate the intended outcome?

[nebula]

So far, I believe that Sesq and Hawk are town. I would like to see a response from MagnaofIllusion before I decide as to his alignment.

[Sesq]

@Nebula you are correct that some things that aren't nesscarily detrimental aren't nesscarily positive however don't ask redundant questions when you know that there is Utility to early wagons.

Fair point, and I will concede. I should have used past tense in that statement.

Also to answer your question, The psychological component from someone being questioned versus someone being pressured and possibly lynched creates a different dynamic and reaction. That's why starting and wagon versus simply starting questioning are different and produce different results

To question this - though perhaps this may not be the place and time - I can understand the intent of the psychological component, and the potential results from reaction. However, does not the fact that the majority of the player base understanding that we are in RVS, and thus votes amounting to almost nil in terms of sincerity, negate the intended outcome?

It doesn't negate the intended outcome at all. It's different than a wagon formed via people having consistent reads but the results are still as legitimate.

[Hawk]

@Nebula you are correct that some things that aren't nesscarily detrimental aren't nesscarily positive however don't ask redundant questions when you know that there is Utility to early wagons.

Fair point, and I will concede. I should have used past tense in that statement.

Also to answer your question, The psychological component from someone being questioned versus someone being pressured and possibly lynched creates a different dynamic and reaction. That's why starting and wagon versus simply starting questioning are different and produce different results

To question this - though perhaps this may not be the place and time - I can understand the intent of the psychological component, and the potential results from reaction. However, does not the fact that the majority of the player base understanding that we are in RVS, and thus votes amounting to almost nil in terms of sincerity, negate the intended outcome?

I don't mind talking theory.

Not always. Each game is different. Some players don't react well under pressure. As well as players develop they generally develop subconscious tells when under pressure in a situation that is familiar (being town under pressure versus being scum under pressure) And even in RVS it's important to note these and look for them. Sometimes you randomly get lucky and snipe a scum d1 because they're very uncomfortable under pressure and can't handle it d1 and make slip ups. It's just a variable. Also after a few flips revisiting RVS and quick gut and early reads can draw associative tells fairly easily.

Note I chose not to place a vote on the wagon because I didn't feel like a wagon off of a P1 would result in anything. Because while early wagons are fine it can make players firm up a read or do some scum/town hunting in response to pressure if it's page 1 there's literally almost nothing a player can draw from to do any of that and the pressure stagnated most of the time IME.

Let's try and not get sidetracked talking mafia Theory.

[Toto]

nebula - This guy is interesting, to say the least. At first he looked pretty suspicious but after looking over his responses they're fairly solid. The one thing that sticks out is his inconsistencies about early wagons, which I would partially attribute to him being at the butt of it.

Oh, hi, Sesk. Could you point out the inconsistencies, and I can try to explain them?

I think you are town.

It's in Hawk's above post. As for them, your logic seems to be more solid but I just really have a gut feel towards you. Toto's sheep play is sort of alarming to me. I don't see why MB is scum beyond using bad logic.

Anyone voting my townreads is getting murdered in this game. Fuck logic.

[nebula]

Anyone voting my townreads is getting murdered in this game. Fuck logic.

Hi, Toto. What are your townreads at this point? I'm also curious as to how you have arrived at them.

[Toto]

Hawk is a townread. He is asking good questions.

[Hawk]

Any starting wagon is fantastic. It just happens to be you this game.

Hey BBT would you perchance forgo your Nebula wagon and partake in my Music Box wagon???

@LUV I have a feeling I know why you naked voted Music Box and I'm fairly certain it isn't RVS but would you enlighten me a bit? Do you like his explanation for why he voted me?

@ the four people who haven't posted.

LURKERS ARE SCUM AND WILL BE ELIMINATED IF YOU DO NOT CONTRIBUTE QUALITY CONTRIBUTIONS TO THIS GAME!!!! I mean... uhhhh please get in here and post. I know some may not have gotten an message like for some reason I just got the email letting me know I had the message for this game lol

[Sesq]

nebula - This guy is interesting, to say the least. At first he looked pretty suspicious but after looking over his responses they're fairly solid. The one thing that sticks out is his inconsistencies about early wagons, which I would partially attribute to him being at the butt of it.

Oh, hi, Sesk. Could you point out the inconsistencies, and I can try to explain them?

I think you are town.

It's in Hawk's above post. As for them, your logic seems to be more solid but I just really have a gut feel towards you. Toto's sheep play is sort of alarming to me. I don't see why MB is scum beyond using bad logic.

Anyone voting my townreads is getting murdered in this game. Fuck logic.

You said murdered instead of lynched.

Oops. Better fix that.

[Hawk]

nebula - This guy is interesting, to say the least. At first he looked pretty suspicious but after looking over his responses they're fairly solid. The one thing that sticks out is his inconsistencies about early wagons, which I would partially attribute to him being at the butt of it.

Oh, hi, Sesk. Could you point out the inconsistencies, and I can try to explain them?

I think you are town.

It's in Hawk's above post. As for them, your logic seems to be more solid but I just really have a gut feel towards you. Toto's sheep play is sort of alarming to me. I don't see why MB is scum beyond using bad logic.

Anyone voting my townreads is getting murdered in this game. Fuck logic.

You said murdered instead of lynched.

Oops. Better fix that.

Maybe it was a Vigi slip

[Hawk]

nebula - This guy is interesting, to say the least. At first he looked pretty suspicious but after looking over his responses they're fairly solid. The one thing that sticks out is his inconsistencies about early wagons, which I would partially attribute to him being at the butt of it.

Oh, hi, Sesk. Could you point out the inconsistencies, and I can try to explain them?

I think you are town.

It's in Hawk's above post. As for them, your logic seems to be more solid but I just really have a gut feel towards you. Toto's sheep play is sort of alarming to me. I don't see why MB is scum beyond using bad logic.

Anyone voting my townreads is getting murdered in this game. Fuck logic.

You said murdered instead of lynched.

Oops. Better fix that.

Maybe it was a Vigi slip