Mini Normal 1874: Camping Trip Mafia (Game Over)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Figh-cuss, darkMatthew, dubface = townbloc

I also don't get the idea that he'd take a buddy with him into a bloc so if this is scum those 3 are town

VOTE: Nadpool

[shannon]

RE-reading, at end of page 9. Apologies for the giant wall x

Why would you vote a pr claim so early out the gate? I find that highly suspicious

More importantly.

Why would you fake claim mason?

If it's not a fake claim, why the fuck would you actually claim mason and out your partner?

I can't speak for innocent but i certainly didn't believe your claim so for me, him voting you wasn't even mildly suspicious let alone highly suspicious

Damn we're gonna have problems I can tell already.

In answer to you question:

"I didn't choose the thug life. The thug life chose me"

In retrospect: This particular interaction looks a bit off, like perhaps these two are both scum, and distancing. Strategy could be to divide town between their two camps, so we eventually compromise on some other player.

All I need to know is that no townie should ever do something so stupid which means you are most likely scum.

Really? Do you really think no townie would troll day one and fake claim? I've seen both scum, and town fake claim on page 1. You say massive is scum because he voted for something that is NAI, but you are doing the same thing with Sick claiming mason day 1. Trolling page 1 ≠ Scum, just like not doing RVS ≠ scum.

VOTE: TwoFace

Town vibe from this ^^

Don't care what he did in another game.

>> Doesn't care what Sick has done in other games when judging his fake claim
>> Asks me for evidence from other games when I say I think fake claiming is scummy

You seriously going to tell me that it's playing against his wincondition to make an absurd page1 fakeclaim?

What about me coming into a game and 100% sheeping someone elses vote? What if I rolled a die to decide who I was voting for?

I seem to remember Two Face having a 'thing' once where he flipped a coin to decide whether or not to join a wagon.

[shannon]

Does this seem like a very well staged exchange to anyone else? Like something out of an informercial?

Also, I'm not *lying* about anything. I think it's scummy, as in bad, a dodgy thing to do, not a good look. I'm not trying to say that I've seen scum do it. I'm sure there are a million things scum have done that I've not witnessed. When the game is over we can put out a call for examples of scum fake claiming masons, if you like.

Good on you iAI. You are making points that make sense. I'll add fykus to my list of possible scum.

VOTE: Shannon

Why are you scum reading Shannon?

Shun the voter, shun, shuuuuuuuuuun.

(Seriously though: I hate fake claimers, especially mason fake claimers, no matter how silly or obv fake the claim is. My vote stays until we get something else from someone else).

Is mason fake claiming scummy?

YES

Can you provide some examples where you've seen scum do that?

@iai - why do you need examples?

Cause I think she's full of crap

Why would she lie about something so meaningless? Scum have the mirror their town play so most scum are going to say/do things they would as town.

But sure. Let's see her provide examples

[TwoFace]

I seem to remember Two Face having a 'thing' once where he flipped a coin to decide whether or not to join a wagon.

Yes I did. Why does it matter now?

[TwoFace]

>> Doesn't care what Sick has done in other games when judging his fake claim
>> Asks me for evidence from other games when I say I think fake claiming is scummy

The fact you can't tell why each of these are completely different is troubling

[Soumil07]

Ugh. What the hell is this game? I feel like there's so little of value despite having 12 pages.

Unvote

. TF and I don't agree, but at least he's engaging people now and looks like he's making an effort. That's more than I can say for like half of these people.

When you have nothing good to say....

Is there a post filter button? Because I kinda wanna tunnel on Shannon a little harder.

[TwoFace]

Yes choose shannon's name below to view just her posts. Display post by user.

[Nadpool]

Meta/gut feeling but this is scum I think

Nadpool = Loopdan = TTTT

[shannon]

^^ You can also click ISO in brackets next to the post number

[shannon]

>> Doesn't care what Sick has done in other games when judging his fake claim
>> Asks me for evidence from other games when I say I think fake claiming is scummy

The fact you can't tell why each of these are completely different is troubling

It troubles me that you think 'people in general do this' is useful but 'this specific player plays in this specific way' is not.

[TwoFace]

>> Doesn't care what Sick has done in other games when judging his fake claim
>> Asks me for evidence from other games when I say I think fake claiming is scummy

The fact you can't tell why each of these are completely different is troubling

It troubles me that you think 'people in general do this' is useful but 'this specific player plays in this specific way' is not.

No idea what you're talking about

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Gut read and meta read.

I can't argue with the second reason. Which posts are giving you that gut read?

Why can't you argue with the second reason?

Meta. I've never played with Lucca before and I don't have the time to meta dive at all.

Page 9

@fykus, 205: it's okay. not mad about you misreading my question. since others have commented at this post, I'll throw my two cents: don't see anything alignment indicative, but I can't blame people who sees a bit of LAMISN.

@sicko, 211: do you really believe that you just asked matt?

@sicko, 213: how do you seem to know how many scum there is?

@lil, 216: what didn't you like about my catchup? also, I wasn't the only one voting Fykus. shouldn't you be scumreading them too?

@loopdan, 223: is this game bastard or something?

Page 10

innocent's catchup:

I'm fine with the catchup for now, and he seems how to hunting scum. there are some bad posts, especially combining 233 with his current scumread on Loopdan. I don't think it's consistent. but I want to look elsewhere now.

@twoface, 245: town post. confortable putting TwoFace on a leaning town category. his posts are looking townier these days. I think that post is scummy, though. A good way of feigning activity.

VOTE: Shannon

let's go with that for now.

I didn't like your catch-up because I found it a bit try hard and because of the conclusions you reached at the end of it. Mainly your vote for Fykus. Also you were the only one voting Fykus at the time. Check the mods ISO.

[TwoFace]

I'm so glad we decided to not lynch scum right away. We've accomplished so much by waiting...

[I Am Innocent]

Page 6

@fykus, 138: I'll throw a question for you. What do you think of Matt saying that I'm pushing you both because you are the "weakest" players in the game.

I guess its plausible but probably unlikely. I'll withhold my judgement for now since you haven't posted much yet.

For now though, I'm going to put my vote on Nadpool since he has offered nothing but seemingly random votes so far this game.

VOTE: Nadpool

So offering nothing >>> screaming scum?

Offering something as to why you're voting for someone is alot better than just voting and saying nothing else at all for 10 pages wouldnt you agree? I assume you do agree in some sense because Nadpool is one of your scum reads. As to pointing out that I waited for a page before putting my vote onto twoface after i grilled him, I'm pretty sure that I offered an explanation already. For now though, I believe where my vote is currently is fine where it is until something else/someone else acting scummy pops up.

No my problem is you said a player was screaming scum (Player A). Then you vote a player who has offered nothing (Player B) without ever changing a read on the player screaming scum.

Player B is a lurker, waste of space, call it whatever. Could be scum could be town from my experience. I personally agree that Nadpool might be scum albeit for additional reasons than "offering nothing."

So if Player A is screaming scum, and you never reliquinish that screaming scum read, one you specifically state later was only strengthened by a lack of a reasonable response:

"I thought id call him out on what I considered him to be doing to see if he'd offer a reasonable response. A page later he hadnt offered one, so I put my vote on him."

and then all of a sudden vote a lurker who is doing nothing, yeah that catches my eye.

[I Am Innocent]

Still somewhat scum read to me, but not as much as it was before.

What changed that it's not as strong as before?

Mainly because he explained that he likes to tunnel people during his games, but still being new to the game I'm not sure whether or not to take tunneling as a scum thing or not. (is tunneling a scum thing or are town more likely to tunnel instead?)

But you moved your vote in 197, and his self declared tunnel was in 221. So why did you move your vote from screaming scum before your read changed on him?

Page 6

@fykus, 138: I'll throw a question for you. What do you think of Matt saying that I'm pushing you both because you are the "weakest" players in the game.

I guess its plausible but probably unlikely. I'll withhold my judgement for now since you haven't posted much yet.

For now though, I'm going to put my vote on Nadpool since he has offered nothing but seemingly random votes so far this game.

VOTE: Nadpool

To everyone.

I tunnel. I don't ever hide or deny that. I've done a good job summing myself in my sig. I've also given a way to get me out of a tunnel. You want me to stop tunneling, make a compelling case. Right now what I've see from people aren't good enough to ignore my own read.

Most games people don't take the time to do that, they instead just argue with me about my stubbornness. That's pointless.

One person has been able to convince me to change my vote. Interesting enough it was the guy I was voting which I thought would be impossible. He changed my vote and he was right.

Do better if you want me to listen to you over myself.

[I Am Innocent]

VOTE: Shannon

Why are you scum reading Shannon?

Shun the voter, shun, shuuuuuuuuuun.

(Seriously though: I hate fake claimers, especially mason fake claimers, no matter how silly or obv fake the claim is. My vote stays until we get something else from someone else).

Is mason fake claiming scummy?

YES

Can you provide some examples where you've seen scum do that?

I haven't seen it done by scum, with the exception of this game if it was a fake claim. (To be fair, I've played only a small number of games where masons are even possible in the setup).

The reasons I think that mason fake claims are scummy are:

1) Fake claims in general look scummy to me. Someone else here said town shouldn't lie, and I believe that
2) This particular type of claim is designed to completely remove the people in it from the lynch pool, for at least one day, so people stop trying to read them if the claim is believable
3) No one ever thinks that both people in the faux masonry might be scum. So if one flips town through whatever means, the other gets flipped because they *must be* the scummy one. If both faux masons are town, this is a bad outcome.
4) It's a good way to buddy or pocket someone - 'I think you're so town that I'll fake claim masons to save you'
5) It creates unnecessary diversion from town, who have to indulge in 'is it fake or not' speculation

How's that?

So faking mason claims is scummy, yet you never saw scum do it. Guess what, I have played a lot of games and I've never seen scum do it. Yeah, I'm not buying it.

As for 1 through 5, how many people do you think believed the claim? I sure didn't. TwoFace was sure it was fake too. It was an obv joke, so it doesn't hold the same weight as a fake claim to save one's own butt.

[I Am Innocent]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Shannon

Are you even in this game?

Yes I am. Just don't have a lot of time. I'll post an elaborate post about my reads tonight.

Quick filter shows this was a lie.

[I Am Innocent]

Still somewhat scum read to me, but not as much as it was before.

What changed that it's not as strong as before?

Mainly because he explained that he likes to tunnel people during his games, but still being new to the game I'm not sure whether or not to take tunneling as a scum thing or not. (is tunneling a scum thing or are town more likely to tunnel instead?)

. As to pointing out that I waited for a page before putting my vote onto twoface after i grilled him

To be fair you didn't "grill me" at all though. You asked me a question and voted for me for a stupid reason. You're still scum reading me for the stupid reason.

If you're town, please stop being stupid. You have literally no reason to be voting or scum reading me since you didn't even fully understand why I was/am voting for sick

I apologise, this is only my second game here, I'm still learning so I kind of view aggressiveness as associated as being scummy (though I am starting to realise that this is not always the case). For now I'll withdraw my vote and hold onto it until something reasonably scummy pops up or an argument worth voting for comes along.

VOTE: unvote

So what has Nadpool done that changed ur wanting to vote him? And you really have 0 scummy reads at this point?

[I Am Innocent]

Gut read and meta read.

I can't argue with the second reason. Which posts are giving you that gut read?

Why can't you argue with the second reason?

Meta. I've never played with Lucca before and I don't have the time to meta dive at all.

I'm with you, no time to meta dive other players. Doesn't stop me from asking for examples tho, and if you were so curious, I wonder why that didn't cross your mind to do that?

[I Am Innocent]

I'm so glad we decided to not lynch scum right away. We've accomplished so much by waiting...

Where are you at with Fykus and Shannon? I'm pretty sure at least one of them is scum, and I like that they are the competing wagons right now.

[TwoFace]

I think sick/massive are better votes but neither of them give me town vibes.

[massive]

Oh I'll give you vibes buddy.

IAI: What's the likelihood that they're BOTH scum? Neither of them are getting any real traction and there really isn't a counterwagon, unless you count Kyouko's random hop onto the Nadpool train.

[shannon]

@Innocent: You realise you're voting Fykus *with* me, right?

Don't get me wrong, I support everyone jumping on Fykus, but it does make your attempts to push me look kind of fake.

[shannon]

Oooh and PS I worked out how to use the site search

Here is Elyse saying that she has fake claimed masons as scum
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8322607

[lucca261]

catching up. here i go.