Star Wars Rogue One [GAME OVER]

[Heartless]

there was never a point i came to in the post where i thought "these reads are legit"

that's what makes me think it was something cobbled together to sound good.

i don't know what "context" there's supposed to be for this.

[Titus]

in my official capacity as someone who knows mollie...

i still have no clue what that means

Given my slowness to learn, that's probably my fault. While I am all about relationships in group dynamics (this wagon is on scum bc town vote and stall), mollie is more about this guy will/won't get lynched bc thread interest and vote motion as it happens. She's never been big on explaining reads but just seeing and controlling the wave of people and what each person will/won't do.

It's hard for me to articulate how she does it or what she does. Yet, that hydra with her was probably the best thing ever for my town play. Since I hydraed with her, my accuracy has been way up and my persuasiveness to. It's not perfect but yeah zefiend seems to be that kind of player.

[Heartless]

Given my slowness to learn, that's probably my fault. While I am all about relationships in group dynamics (this wagon is on scum bc town vote and stall), mollie is more about this guy will/won't get lynched bc thread interest and vote motion as it happens. She's never been big on explaining reads but just seeing and controlling the wave of people and what each person will/won't do.

oh yeah... she calls that "the town herd"

...

i still don't know the relevance to this. sorry.

[Firebringer]

Vote Count 3.05

Titus [2] Nero Cain, Sircakez
Nero Cain [1] Titus
Aj the Epic [1] BBMolla
Mastina [1] PeregrineV
BBmolla [1] Mastina
Infinity 324 [1] zefiend
zefiend [2] Infinity 324, Heartless


Not Voting - [3] TheWayItEnds, Drunken Piper, Aj the Epic,

With 12 Alive, It Takes 7 To Lynch.

Rogue Leader Vote:

Infinity 324 (1) Aj The Epic
Drunken Piper (2) Infinity 324, Sircakez

Mod Notes - May the flavor be with you.

Day 3 ends in (expired on 2017-02-13 05:26:20)!

[Titus]

Given my slowness to learn, that's probably my fault. While I am all about relationships in group dynamics (this wagon is on scum bc town vote and stall), mollie is more about this guy will/won't get lynched bc thread interest and vote motion as it happens. She's never been big on explaining reads but just seeing and controlling the wave of people and what each person will/won't do.

oh yeah... she calls that "the town herd"

...

i still don't know the relevance to this. sorry.

Replace town herd for personal feel of the gamestate in zefiend's post see if it makes sense. If you still cannot see that, then maybe I am wrong in my interpretation.

[SirCakez]

Spoiler:

If you fuckers are going to lynch Molla, that will make this game unplayable for me in most regards. I am bet my life levels of confident Molla is town, and I lack the time or inclination to read through mountains of garbage when the truth is obvious.

No scum would fake being vanillaized before DP revealed his guilty.

So present me evidence of BBMolla knowing (which likely means scum in the hood) or this is just another distraction from Infinity scum or protecting Infinity scum.

DP, for BBMolla scum (which you leave open) you would nearly certain need someone to inform him of your cop check. You are not acting like that is a possibility. You are postulating that BBMolla scum and keeping the hood the same, which violates Occam's Razor.

Meanwhile, BBMolla is being a dumbass for claiming, so I cannot elect him Rogue Leader.

AJ is pants on head reading Molla today but right on Nero being a vindictive sack of shit, like he is regardless of alignment.

No one else is bothering with the spam those two put in the thread.


So tell me, who the fuck will take out the trash of Infinity and Nero along with them not playing Pants on Head level stupid? Yeah, I would vote that for Rogue Leader. Guess what, my townreads are also my dumb as fuck reads. So yeah, you are not getting my vote for Rogue Leader. No one is. I need to see intelligence and logical coherence, even if I disagree with it to vote Rogue Leader.

Right now, I just don't.

Scum AtE/flailing

I need to reevaluate townreads since I was wrong about Pine and Klingon. I feel safe with this vote though.
VOTE: AJ

"I swear I'm going to reevaluate my reads, but here have a vote which...is not me reevaluating my reads".

It was a day entrance, and I was (and still am) busy when I posted that.

In fact, half the game didn't even want you to claim your abilities.

is this a fact or an alternative fact?

I have been very busy in the afternoons recently so I haven't been able to reread yet. Titus looks like scum on hiding so ya not changing my vote.

zefiend - given that Pine is our only flipped scum, thought it would be worthwhile for you to pay extra attention there. There wasn't really a special motive for it.

This is scum too.

I am hiding? That's the lie you're going with.

Why the fuck are the legends damn stupid here?

Yeah, you're barely posting here and town Titus is usually uber active.

SirCake into the scumpile also.

Why tho?

I have been very busy in the afternoons recently so I haven't been able to reread yet. Titus looks like scum on hiding so ya not changing my vote. .

How does Titus looking like scum cause your vote to stay on AJ? I feel like I'm missing an important connection you've made or I'm misunderstanding this post.

I'm voting Titus atm.

As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.

This is so scum

Yeah looking at his recent posts agreed.

Whoops posting on mobile is hard sometimes.

You have stated that I'm scum three times now, with absolutely zero reasoning.

Consider this post me formally calling out your shade-tossing.

Walk me through this. Reading anything with people not completely caught up is a pain in the ass and I want to say Aeroslot is scum (from earlier, helps explain why no counterwagons early) but unless you're referring to generic waffling mastin!read then I'm blind to the issue.

It's that his paranoia isn't genuine. Of course not all of his reads are just going to be determined by what other people think, and it doesn't make much sense for town with no particular reasons to scumread someone to get paranoid just because other people think that person is scum. Especially since it's only a couple people who think mastin is scum. I think he's setting up for the possible opportunity to lynch a strong town player because he can't resist it.

What the fuck are you talking about?

I read the thread and gave my initial read on mastina. Since then, two people with more tenure have engaged me and I'm trying to walk through their perspective with them. Where did I ever say my read on mastina is now scum or I would consider lynching them?? I said that my position on town-reading mastina based on tone/unlikely to bus Pine was flexible with the proper input.

At this point your are being glaringly dense or scum grasping for straws. There is no way a town mindset concocts some sort of interpretation where my read of mastina flips 180 because of a brief conversation with two players.

I never said your mastin read flipped. I said you're setting up to flip it.

This reaction is beyond fake.

Attempting to solve the game and sort my reads is not a setup of anything.

VOTE: infinity

Literally everything you've said has been sh@allow shading or blatant invention about my gameplay.

These two posts are terribad.

[ɀefiend]

I made a catch-up post because I believe it beneficial for myself and others who want to productively engage with me in syncing with the game.

I did the exact same thing when I replaced at a similar point in the game in RC's League of Legends Mafia: gave my opinion on all the players, said who my top townreads were, and said who I was willing to lynch. I also talked about major talking points I would like to consider while moving forwards.

If you really think that's scummy I can't help you anymore.

[Titus]

Zefiend, you cannot help scum.

[Drunken Piper]

(DP is passed out in a work fueled, therapeutic booze frenzy, ie he is apparently very behind and hopes to join the conversation by Friday)

[Heartless]

I made a catch-up post because I believe it beneficial for myself and others who want to productively engage with me in syncing with the game.

I did the exact same thing when I replaced at a similar point in the game in RC's League of Legends Mafia: gave my opinion on all the players, said who my top townreads were, and said who I was willing to lynch. I also talked about major talking points I would like to consider while moving forwards.

If you really think that's scummy I can't help you anymore.

i mean.... you can help me by talking more about reads and why you have them

maybe start w/ infinity?

[Heartless]

I do believe he has been opportunistic (hell, he even admitted as much D1) with respect to wagoning.

ok, like this. here's a concrete assertion about infinity and what he's done.

when did this happen and where was it scummy?

[ɀefiend]

I made a catch-up post because I believe it beneficial for myself and others who want to productively engage with me in syncing with the game.

I did the exact same thing when I replaced at a similar point in the game in RC's League of Legends Mafia: gave my opinion on all the players, said who my top townreads were, and said who I was willing to lynch. I also talked about major talking points I would like to consider while moving forwards.

If you really think that's scummy I can't help you anymore.

i mean.... you can help me by talking more about reads and why you have them

maybe start w/ infinity?

On mobile so I can't make a really good case wall with quotes and such, but here's the rundown.

He shaded my catch-up, I ignored it because I was busy talking to others. Then while I was talking to Nero, he kept shading me, so I told him to stop it whilst bringing forward no reasoning. His reply was that his reasoning was that my analysis was bad and I was asking pointless questions. I told him that this wasn't saying much of anything and just casting more shade. (The difference between you and him is that you actually articulated what about my catch-up bothered you and hopefully trying to understand it. His motive was to simply discredit).

Then

in reply to Nero, he concocts a moonshine gasoline theory that my conversation with Nero was pre-emptively setting myself up to push for a mastina lynch later on. He acts like this is his gold standard of reasoning, even though it was derived after originally calling me scummy. Furthermore, the premise is completely illogical. What the hell are my motivations with progressing a fake read on mastina from town to scummy? If I wanted to portray mastina as scummy why wouldn't I just bring up a bunch of fake issues with her in my catch-up post? I obviously read the thread and know that some people scumread mastina, so why wouldn't I just latch on to that to begin with? He's asserting that my attempts to be transparent with my mastina read are somehow bogus... *because I'm suddenly asking others for their input on mastina*... it's a scum tactic to discredit and disparage legitimate conversations and I believe that is exactly what he's doing.

[ɀefiend]

I do believe he has been opportunistic (hell, he even admitted as much D1) with respect to wagoning.

ok, like this. here's a concrete assertion about infinity and what he's done.

when did this happen and where was it scummy?

Can't dig up to quote the exact posts b/c mobile, but

Towards the end of D1, with around 3 real-life days left, he is getting antsy about wagons and expresses discontent with trying to move the current wagon. Several people tell him his worries are unfounded. In reference to "admitting" something, I also recall him saying something along the lines of "I'd rather lynch town than no one." When push came to shove, though, he had no qualms about actually moving the wagons around. I may have to review the timings of those D1 wagons to get a better picture but overall, I don't think his voting nature was genuine and I would definitely describe it as opportunistic.

[ɀefiend]

Zefiend, you cannot help scum.

I don't even know who you're referring to at this point.

[Heartless]

Then in reply to Nero, he concocts a moonshine gasoline theory that my conversation with Nero was pre-emptively setting myself up to push for a mastina lynch later on.

errrrrk

ok so here's your reply to nero in question:

The only problem I have with your logic is when you say Pine "will eventually go down." I don't know if there's credence to that statement before the guilty result comes out.

As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.

i'm also wondering why you caved so easily when nero challenged you on the mastin townread. that was supposedly one of two confident townreads you said you had in your first post and that gets washed out by... what exactly? you didn't consider the possibility of mastin bussing, nero had to bring it up first?

i would think you'd stand up for the read more than you did.

What the hell are my motivations with progressing a fake read on mastina from town to scummy?

staying out of nero's way. bend the read without necessarily breaking.

i like moonshine gasoline as much as the next guy, but i don't think it's crazy.

[Titus]

You attempting to help SirCakez.

Why did you think I wouldn't care about reading your posts?
Why do you think the unhealthy spam argument hasn't been made about infinity besudes by me?

[Heartless]

I do believe he has been opportunistic (hell, he even admitted as much D1) with respect to wagoning.

ok, like this. here's a concrete assertion about infinity and what he's done.

when did this happen and where was it scummy?

Can't dig up to quote the exact posts b/c mobile, but

Towards the end of D1, with around 3 real-life days left, he is getting antsy about wagons and expresses discontent with trying to move the current wagon. Several people tell him his worries are unfounded. In reference to "admitting" something, I also recall him saying something along the lines of "I'd rather lynch town than no one." When push came to shove, though, he had no qualms about actually moving the wagons around. I may have to review the timings of those D1 wagons to get a better picture but overall, I don't think his voting nature was genuine and I would definitely describe it as opportunistic.

ok i guess i'll wait for the quote compilation because i'm not even following the basic structure of the argument

[Titus]

Heartless, have you formed a read on Mastina? Mastina feels different from any game I've had with her, both town and scum. Yet, I can't get a grip on why they aren't seeing the basic logic I am? I expect better from Mastina.

[Infinity 324]

zefiend, just because I didn't explain in a ton of detail right when you wanted me to what specifically bothered me about your catchup because I was tired doesn't make me scum. I even said you can ask me to elaborate if you wanted, but instead you just use it as a reason to call me scum.

I don't see how "scum townread player x but waffled on the read when other people disagreed to possibly set up to vote them" is as crazy as you make it sound. Scum!you probably couldn't even find any justifiable reasons of your own to scumread mastin, and sheeping or using obviously bad reasons would have issues of its own. I find it hard to believe that, as town, you would start to reconsider a confident townread after one person told you you should. There are a bunch of people saying mastin is town, why trust nero and pere over them?

Your reaction to all this is so overblown, and the fact that you think it's so obviously scummy that I didn't elaborate as much and you wanted me to and think it's so ridiculous that scum could set up to change their read is scummy in and of itself.

[Infinity 324]

I'll ISO cakez, go through my mastin and titus townreads, and talk about my issues with zefiend's catchup originally later today.

[ɀefiend]

Then in reply to Nero, he concocts a moonshine gasoline theory that my conversation with Nero was pre-emptively setting myself up to push for a mastina lynch later on.

errrrrk

ok so here's your reply to nero in question:

The only problem I have with your logic is when you say Pine "will eventually go down." I don't know if there's credence to that statement before the guilty result comes out.

As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.

i'm also wondering why you caved so easily when nero challenged you on the mastin townread. that was supposedly one of two confident townreads you said you had in your first post and that gets washed out by... what exactly? you didn't consider the possibility of mastin bussing, nero had to bring it up first?

i would think you'd stand up for the read more than you did.

What the hell are my motivations with progressing a fake read on mastina from town to scummy?

staying out of nero's way. bend the read without necessarily breaking.

i like moonshine gasoline as much as the next guy, but i don't think it's crazy.

Feel like I'm talking to a brick wall but here goes.

Of course I considered that mastina could have bussed. I felt strongly on my gut that her tone was not in line with someone who was bussing. I laid all of this out in the forefront. Then Peregrine and Nero both made statements that suggest their experience with mastina or her alts or hydras lead them to believe mastina's range this game could very well include bussing. I am glad that these two players ACTUALLY ENGAGED my catch-up post instead of just flat out attacking and sliding it, because I give deference to their opinion about mastina and I will use that going forward (when Nero and/or mastina comes back).

If you think I am the type of player to hold tightly to my town reads you are mistaken. I am primarily a scum hunter.

[ɀefiend]

You attempting to help SirCakez.

Why did you think I wouldn't care about reading your posts?
Why do you think the unhealthy spam argument hasn't been made about infinity besudes by me?

Help SieCakez how?? I feel like you are narrating something happening in an entirely different game or I'm eternally distracted.

Because when you tunnel you don't care why someone has your support as long as they do. Pretty sure you've said something like that before but I'm not in any rush to dig through all our games together to find it.

I am joining your cause to make that argument too. It's not just unhealthy, it's tactically scummy.

[Titus]

If you really think that's scummy I can't help you anymore.

SirCakez posted his spoiler before this heavily redacted post.

You cannot help SirCakez see scum because he is scum.

[Titus]

You attempting to help SirCakez.

Why did you think I wouldn't care about reading your posts?
Why do you think the unhealthy spam argument hasn't been made about infinity besudes by me?

Help SieCakez how?? I feel like you are narrating something happening in an entirely different game or I'm eternally distracted.

Because when you tunnel you don't care why someone has your support as long as they do. Pretty sure you've said something like that before but I'm not in any rush to dig through all our games together to find it.

I am joining your cause to make that argument too. It's not just unhealthy, it's tactically scummy.

That's a very oversimplistic view of my personality. I do actually scrutinize who joins when and what reason. That's why we're even talking rather than me saying yes.

What's unhealthy is refusing to listen to evidence and adjust, which is what most of the thread appears do be doing.

Let's lynch The Thinker. He flips town.
Let's lynch Klingon. She's town.
Let's lynch BBMolla, and he's damn near conftown.

So am I supposed to wait for more dumb errors and compromise when the majority is systemically wrong?

[ɀefiend]

zefiend, just because I didn't explain in a ton of detail right when you wanted me to what specifically bothered me about your catchup because I was tired doesn't make me scum. I even said you can ask me to elaborate if you wanted, but instead you just use it as a reason to call me scum.

Your "elaboration" was inventing a reason from my exchange with Nero -- which happened AFTER you originally called me out. You didn't have shit to begin with and you just reached for the first thing you could think of.

I don't see how "scum townread player x but waffled on the read when other people disagreed to possibly set up to vote them" is as crazy as you make it sound. Scum!you probably couldn't even find any justifiable reasons of your own to scumread mastin, and sheeping or using obviously bad reasons would have issues of its own. I find it hard to believe that, as town, you would start to reconsider a confident townread after one person told you you should. There are a bunch of people saying mastin is town, why trust nero and pere over them?

Pure misrepresentation. I like how you add in "possibly to set up to vote them" - this is blatant construction of a narrative that you have no idea about. Nero and Peregrine's disagreements simply caused me to reflect and reevaluate.

You are focusing on my dialogue with Nero and Peregrine for the wrong reasons. They were particularly influential to me because they ENGAGED me on the exact points I was thinking mastina couldn't have bussed. Why would I NOT consider their opinion when they are saying the exact opposite?

Your reaction to all this is so overblown, and the fact that you think it's so obviously scummy that I didn't elaborate as much and you wanted me to and think it's so ridiculous that scum could set up to change their read is scummy in and of itself.

Circular reasoning is circular reasoning is circular reason-...