Open 671: Greater Idea - OVER

[-Grey-]

You'll have to add the ) at the end of the URL, phpbb sucks.

[-Grey-]

Sure. Suit yourself. I said I hav no experience of cult games. Voicing any opinions that contradict yours is scummy or now culty, right???

Look man,

I don't have much patience for people that argue simply for the sake of arguing.

You take anything I say and turn it into a point of contention and that shit is tedious.

I don't care.

[bangthemafia]

@ Mod, I will be V/LA till Monday. Will try to keep checking in between though.

[bangthemafia]

Sure. Suit yourself. I said I hav no experience of cult games. Voicing any opinions that contradict yours is scummy or now culty, right???

Look man,

I don't have much patience for people that argue simply for the sake of arguing.

You take anything I say and turn it into a point of contention and that shit is tedious.

I don't care.

Just forget it.

Just think carefully and tell me, if both u and spade are claiming correctly, which lynch u feel is better for town today.

[bangthemafia]

I mean which one of you or Spade

[-Grey-]

I think I'm the better lynch.

Mafia loses a member. If I'm NK'ed, whatever. It's still a net gain for town because a 1:1 scum:town trade always benefits town.

[-Grey-]

On the flip side of the coin, I'm functionally a mafia traitor. This means I don't have access to the NK and thus am not an immediate threat to PR's.

Spade risks costing town PR's by virtue of his existence.

There's a case to be made for either of us, tbh.

[-Grey-]

I think you should be asking someone that doesn't have a dog in the race because Spade and I are both biased, albeit for entirely different reasons.

[Kop]

I'm also worried about Kop lurking. He was pretty silent (with the exception of his vote) after the RC flip too, and with a massive 6 posts, I cant get a read.

He's my second guess for bussing scum.

I've played enough of these games to know that a day shot vigilante always 9 times out of 10 flips scum, I've very rarely seen a town day vigilante chosen in these setups.

I got offered it once with another role, I chose the other role simply because the day shot does not prove my alignment, and if I shoot incorrectly, I will be high up on the chopping board.

And all of that to go with Charloux behaviour, it only led to that being a scum claim that needed lynching.

[-Grey-]

Your lack of presence has a lot to do with my uneasiness regarding your slot.

I know, r/l, etc... but it would be nice to see more from you.

[Kop]

Maybe. But why and how would scum presume that Lowell was an investigative role. He just said Dave was his guy for day 2. That could just mean he wanted keep Dave for lynching on day 2 and focus on Charl day 1. Thats exactly what I thought about Spade. I found him scummy but wanted to lynch Charl first.

It's scum's job to find investigative roles. "My guy for d2" raised all kinds of PR flags for me because it implies acting on results, and I'm town. So I know scum had him pegged.

It does seem a obvious frame job, but Lowell saying what he did, does give a strong impression that he has something that could harm scum a great deal. This would would mean that scum regardless if it frames them or not, need him out of the game and WIFOM there way out of it.

It doesn't specifically imply investigative, as such, but it does come across as him having something that would harm them.

[Kop]

My reads so far. More for myself so that I don't have to re-read:
Town
Vax (reasonable, logical), NM (looks like in a tvt with RC)

Null
Bang (mixed reactions on his posts), Dave, Kop & Gamma (no clear reads on them), Grey (illogical, selective blindness towards Spade's scumtells. scumleaning)

Scum
Spade (very opportunistic. especially with buddying and jumping the votes wherever the wagon is going)

VOTE: Spade

Will elaborate in 24 hours.

Pedit: You are an idiot, Grey.

Why is he a idiot? That doesn't tell me anything.

I think grey has been making some decent points, might be wayward but decent points considering.

[Spade_Ace]

@grey I don't mind being lynched if it is for the the town's benefit. But I want to be convinced that it is beneficial first. Not arguments like a person who wanted to play scum might target me at night sort of.

Assuming I am not lynched, there are 8 alive. I am assuming there won't be more than two scum in each faction right now. Excluding me, they have 5 players to choose from. It is not like there are just 1or 2 players left and my existence is hurting their survival chances. Even if am lynched, scum could still end up killing a power role. So you end up losing one confimed Townie and a PR.

[Kop]

589 is not that surprising by itself, but just 10 posts after 579, it's definitely surprising. He puts you and me in the same category as scums. And then something happens, and he appeals to you, but not to me. I am wondering what was it? Was it coz you were posting and I was absent since day 2. Dunno. He should explain that though.

I am confused about Spade coz the more I think, the more I think this is not at all how he plays. My overall impression of Spade is this (and this is not necessarily negative): I think he has researched a lot about how to play on mafiascum and his style is also shaped a lot by the games he has played here. I also think he is playing a lot by the book, trying to play more as is expected of a player and less as himself, and has generated a style for himself that is markedly different from the way he used to play with us (which I think was way too effective than the way he is playing now). That means I (and you too I am guessing) have no handle on him. It's possible that that's the reason I am finding him scummy.

On the other hand, there are still many points about him this game that have nothing to do with style, and more to do with the content and intent of his posts. For example, starting with his initial vote on RC (for his self-vote) in 346, trying to implicate me in 353 for suggesting RC could be frustrated, the language of denial of self-voting in 359, and blatantly sheeping Grey throughout. He finding me scummy coz of the reasons he mentions in the earlier posts as well as in 393 and 394 are too simplistic for him. Just as I know him, he knows my game.

This is why I am confused about him. But I am still voting for him coz I would expect more from a player of his level, regardless of whether he is scum or town. For someone to playing a markedly different (and simplistic) game, there's more possibility of him being a scum than town.

Ok you've expanded on the grey point, I have seen that, but that could be his playstyle, he does make decent points that prevents me from scum reading him at this point. Think there is more issues out there than someone is virtually entering a tunnel.

As for your points about Spade, I disagree with this. People tend to get stuck in the mentality of scum reading someone purely on meta, or playstyle. This isn't how he normally plays, blah blah blah, if that's the main reason you scum read him then I can't agree. (I'm aware at this point he didn't claim that he was a black goo). People develop there games and evolve, and as they evolve, they come different to what your accustomed too, how can you specifically scum read him based on this?

Even if it's gone down being generic to playing like a text book, it's NAI.

[-Grey-]

So you end up losing one confimed Townie

If you were anywhere near confirmed town, I wouldn't care about your claimed negative utility.

The reality of the situation is that your claim is an excellent scum fake claim.

[Spade_Ace]

That is true. It is an excellent scum fake claim. There is nothing that I can do to help verify this role. It is not like a culted player is going to support me. Well if ppl are that suspicious and if my role could still be in doubt during the final stages, town should lynch me today.

[-Grey-]

With already 2 claims out, does anybody think a mass claim is good? Anyway, if not now, i think we must go for claims on day 3.

This game is guaranteed not to be balanced.

All that mass claim will achieve is to tell scum where to shoot. Knowing who has what roles will not aid in process of elimination because we are not working with an open setup or even a designed role distribution.

[Kop]

VOTE: Grey

Ideas good but this vote stinks. Plenty of talking before, no comments on anything, waltz in with a vote that is leaning towards.

[-Grey-]

Mebbe he's annoyed at getting culted.

[-Grey-]

Actually that wouldn't be a bad idea.

I find it hard to believe that scum would even passively entertain the thought of being voted immediately after putting on the show Spade did d1.

His claim today is lining up with his play yesterday on an organic level that I don't really see with scum fake claims.

[Kop]

The claim on page 1, it's a joke and should be taken as that. I don't think anyone in a town frame of mind, especially with partners would out themselves in that manner. Unless it was pre-organized before hand, which I very highly doubt anyone would do. Even if that role exist (I was unaware of such a role) it has to be taken not gospel.

Anyone jumping on that claim and berating it, is more likely to come from scum rather than town, as scum always look for a easy route to push without hindering much resistance. Especially when the 2 names mentioned in that claim, didn't back it up, gives scum more impetus to push further into it.

I might be grasping at straws here. This was Kop's first comment. He was defending your fake claim. Maybe cos he doesn't want you lynched as he knows you are a Salaus??

That wasn't defending it, it was clearly saying the claim was a joke. To come out right at the start, made it more of a joke to me in my eyes. Especially when lovers all die together, so from a town POV it wouldn't have happened like it did.

[-Grey-]

If the rest of town can see what I'm seeing, Spade can actually become a powerful townie precisely because of his negative utility.

[Kop]

if I had to lynch someone right now, it would be either Grey or Alban.

Grey for confirmations, alban he's been setting himself up nicely and posturing that doesn't tell me that he's town.

[Kop]

Bang wouldn't be a bad shout.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also we need to be careful now. Coz if anyone wants to be a cult, they would target u. These would be players who wanted to be scum but got both town roles. So those with town discards.

I don't think anyone will want to be a cult in between the game. Getting a wincon as a cult is quite difficult. So I doubt anyone would willing target me at night.

Cult doesn't have a nightkill, so they have to rely on mislynches, dodging death, and recruiting to win.

Nobody WANTS to be in a cult.

I agree i hav zero experience with cult. But I dont completely agred. Think of a player who wanted to play some anti town role but got both town cards. Black goo is like an angel to them.

Lack of night kill doesnt take away their fun of having anti town role, especially with a continuously increading chance of expanding faction

Black goo doesn't win with cult here