Open 670: Near Vanilla (Over)

[Sesq]

It's called "I made a bullshit claim and changed my mind".

It isn't uncommon for me.

[Creature]

Votecount 1.5

Votecount 1.5

[0] Lil Uzi Vert
[1] BlueBloodedToffee - Elena Fisher
[0] nydushermain
[0] MagnaofIllusion
[0] KainTepes
[0] Lowell
[0] Hiraki
[0] Riley Cake
[0] Toto
[4] Sesq - nebula, BlueBloodedToffee, Lowell, Lil Uzi Vert
[6] nebula - Sesq, KainTepes, MagnaofIllusion, Toto, Hawk, Riley Cake

[L-2]

[0] Music Box
[0] Elena Fisher
[0] Hawk

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: nydushermain, Hiraki, Music Box

14 players are alive, therefore 8 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-02-13 13:10:00)

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Mod: I'm voting for Sesq.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Of course it was deceptive. I pointed that out. The playstyle I was trying go for required the deception. I make no apologies for that. For you to try and read alignment based on that is just bad.

Just because you were playing as a secret alt doesn’t require you to lie about your alit status. And trying to handwave it as “required deception” is ludicrous.

It was towny. I don't see why scum would start locking themselves into stances that early on. Of course, I had been drinking at the time, and now that I look back on it - there are no stances, more of a regurgitation of actions. So, probably not towny in retrospect.

If anyone can’t see the self-contradiction in this post (“Here’s a reason it was Townie … but I was drinking at the time so now it is not so Town”) I can’t help them.

Your scenario requires that I hardclaim and get CC'd. Then I would 1v1, the real PR would end up getting lynched, and I would get lynched the next day. You are missing the most salient point - I would have to hardclaim - and the softclaim becomes effectively useless. So, again, I ask, what town motivation do you have for putting the spotlight on something you view as a softclaim?

Look I don’t think you were soft-claiming (you are scum for other reasons) but this is a bizarrely dumb line of attack. Keep in mind the whole point of Toto’s logic is that down the line when you hardclaimed in your 1v1 battle with the actual PR you could point back to your soft-claims as evidence to support yourself. Exactly what you conclude with the line “the real PR would end up getting lynched”. Every point he is making you agree with but somehow you are peddling “You are wrong”.

--

if only one scum is left jailer is almost a cop.

Proper JK play in the set-up is to operate as a protective role (enabling possibly two Town players to be protected from the Nightkill) until two scum are lynched. Each JK after that becomes a quasi-Cop as the JK should be targeting the scummiest remaining players who are unlikely to be Nightkill targets.

Nebula softclaimed twice now. It only makes sense if he is a jailkeeper. Doctor would not softclaim this early.

Realistically you aren’t gaining traction on your “Nebula scum-slipped” angle. If you didn’t think that would you still be voting Nebula?

--

Go wagon, go.

VOTE: sesq

Just dropping this here for my own review if Nebula flips scum.

[Elena Fisher]

Ah there's already 2 wagons interesting alright I'll focus on BBT tomorrow I'll read the others

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Toto: I just reread and I don't understand why you felt the need to point out crumbs and claim nebula claimed jailkeeper. The Sesq wagon started picking up and you were explaining yourself to BBT. Why did nebula suddenly come to mind? Why is his explanation for wanting to be lynched scummy? You're calling him dumb for claiming he soft claimed but isn't it more idiotic to out a potential PR? You're also generalizing a bit here.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I want to see where Nydush and Elaine’s reads fall once they are fully caught up with the thread.

Outside of Nebula I think my biggest reads as possible scum right now are LUV and Kain Tepes. LUV has basically been skating by being active and posting fluff (290 and 317 being the most recent examples). I still think the whole accusation of a misrep back on Page 2 is scummy. I also think relationally his hop onto Sesq and the timing of said hop is telling if Nebula is indeed Mafia.

Kain on the other hand didn’t even blink at my declaration that I was digging into his completed games looking for instances of “claiming of scum” to see they were potential alignment indicators. It didn’t but what I did notice is that Town Kain tends to be more OMGUSy and self-aware than scum Kain. The fact that he didn’t make any comment at all about my threat to potentially push through a lynch on him (even to say “You will not find anything”) has me leaning scum.

@LUV

– So regarding 289 I find it hard to believe you are floating “Town don’t misrepresent and prefer clarity” after Questionable Content Mafia …

Riley I think may be Town just for 310. Although our posting styles and reasoning are way different she’s onto two of my three scum suspect independently. Although for the record I am reading Riley as “Alt with a gimic”.

Riley

– are you an Alt?

--

@hawk, riley has a newbtown vibe he just can't hide.

toto looks good in his latest push on nebula.

nydush's posts are an absolute nonfactor. congrats if that's what you were going for. even while reading them I forget what they're about. posts like 252 feel entirely contrived.

fos nydush
fos nebula

So Lowell … talk to me. You are FOSing Nebula right here while voting for Sesq (the other competing wagon). Do you realistically think Sesq and Nebula are scum partners? If so why are you supporting the smaller wagon. If not why FOS Nebula?

--

He seemed to be the only person who was really fitting that role at the time. Would be glad to hear who you think also qualifies.

I think Riley and BBT both would have easily fit that profile at the time you originally posted that. Both have been posting more effectively since then but at that point I was curious why neither twigged you.

[Toto]

Nebula came to mind when he softclaimed again. I dismissed the RVS one because it wasnt so strong. But when he did it again I had to bring it up.

Mafia has a lot to gain breadcumbing a fake claims. It draws the real doctor and makes them waste their protection. It helps mafia in case they are forced to hardclaim we could end up lynching the jk first. There may be scenarios where trading with a jk in this setup is beneficial for mafia.

Also I dont believe penguin is a dumb player. Either he didnt softclaim or he is scum.

Where did I generalize?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Nebula came to mind when he softclaimed again. I dismissed the RVS one because it wasnt so strong. But when he did it again I had to bring it up.

Mafia has a lot to gain breadcumbing a fake claims. It draws the real doctor and makes them waste their protection. It helps mafia in case they are forced to hardclaim we could end up lynching the jk first. There may be scenarios where trading with a jk in this setup is beneficial for mafia.

Also I dont believe penguin is a dumb player. Either he didnt softclaim or he is scum.

Where did I generalize?

You aren't answering my question - do you have other reasons besides what you see as the scummy softclaim to think he is scum? If so please point me to where in your ISO I can see them.

[Toto]

Also, even if I was wrong and he was jk it would be better this way.

Let me ask you a question, luv. What is the town motivation for softclaiming in this set up?

The only person that has some motivation to softclaim is the jk that wants to let the doc know who he is. If he softclaims and mafia picks it up and the doc misses it then jk is dead. Thats why softclaiming is a dumb play here. Either hardclaim or stfu.

P-edit i did not like his forced tone and also the fact he lied about being a alt.

[Toto]

Also his reaction to my push is screaming scum to me.

[Elena Fisher]

Also, even if I was wrong and he was jk it would be better this way.

Let me ask you a question, luv. What is the town motivation for softclaiming in this set up?

The only person that has some motivation to softclaim is the jk that wants to let the doc know who he is. If he softclaims and mafia picks it up and the doc misses it then jk is dead. Thats why softclaiming is a dumb play here. Either hardclaim or stfu.

this isn't actually half bad

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Nebula came to mind when he softclaimed again. I dismissed the RVS one because it wasnt so strong. But when he did it again I had to bring it up.

Mafia has a lot to gain breadcumbing a fake claims. It draws the real doctor and makes them waste their protection. It helps mafia in case they are forced to hardclaim we could end up lynching the jk first. There may be scenarios where trading with a jk in this setup is beneficial for mafia.

Also I dont believe penguin is a dumb player. Either he didnt softclaim or he is scum.

Where did I generalize?

Why though? The only explanation I can think of based on what you're saying is that you thought he was scum at the time.

You're generalizing because you're basically saying that when a person says don't lynch me or calls themselves a bad lynch, it's a PR soft. Why can't he be calling himself a bad lynch and/or saying not to lynch him because he's enjoying the game?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Also, even if I was wrong and he was jk it would be better this way.

Let me ask you a question, luv. What is the town motivation for softclaiming in this set up?

The only person that has some motivation to softclaim is the jk that wants to let the doc know who he is. If he softclaims and mafia picks it up and the doc misses it then jk is dead. Thats why softclaiming is a dumb play here. Either hardclaim or stfu.

P-edit i did not like his forced tone and also the fact he lied about being a alt.

Why would it be better this way? A PR out in the open is never good for town, even with a known doctor in the setup.

It seems like you answered your own question. If that is what you thought nebula was trying to do, I don't see a reason to bring attention to that.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Also, even if I was wrong and he was jk it would be better this way.

Let me ask you a question, luv. What is the town motivation for softclaiming in this set up?

The only person that has some motivation to softclaim is the jk that wants to let the doc know who he is. If he softclaims and mafia picks it up and the doc misses it then jk is dead. Thats why softclaiming is a dumb play here. Either hardclaim or stfu.

P-edit

i did not like his forced tone and also the fact he lied about being a alt.

Also his reaction to my push is screaming scum to me.

The bolded seems to be the real reasons for why you're voting for nebula. If so, I'd like to talk about them with you.

[Toto]

I thought that softclaim didnt make sense so early from town so I brought it up so we could discuss it. And you didnt answer my question. What town motivation is there to softclaim?

[Toto]

Yes, his reaction is scummy. Discuss it away.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I thought that softclaim didnt make sense so early from town so I brought it up so we could discuss it. And you didnt answer my question. What town motivation is there to softclaim?

Drawing night kills.

[Toto]

Sure. Do you think thats what he was trying to do though?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yes, his reaction is scummy. Discuss it away.

You can't see why town would call you dumb there? Do you think he was attempting to shutdown discussion?

Sure. Do you think thats what he was trying to do though?

No, because I don't believe he was softing.

[Toto]

Yes. But town believing I was dumb would have reacted more aggresively. He just wanted the conversation to go away

[nebula]

Meh. I cbd'f to respond to all this nonsense. Magna is prob!scum because he should know better than to argue NAI points and he's twisting things to make them scummy instead of addressing them on face value.

Toto is probs just bad town. I think he thinks he caught scum and now he's in a death tunnel.

VOTE: Magna

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yes. But town believing I was dumb would have reacted more aggresively. He just wanted the conversation to go away

I have a feeling this comes from knowing that nebula is an alt. I could see PP reacting that way but I think we have all forgotten this is supposed to be a different side to PP.

What's wrong with wanting it to go away? I can see him easily wanting it forgotten and even buried so scum would forget it was even brought up.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Regardless, there was no reason to bring it up as a talking point because of the risk. I could understand if you had a guilty on him, but you don't.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Meh. I cbd'f to respond to all this nonsense. Magna is prob!scum because he should know better than to argue NAI points and he's twisting things to make them scummy instead of addressing them on face value.

Toto is probs just bad town. I think he thinks he caught scum and now he's in a death tunnel.

VOTE: Magna

Yeah I thought Magna was trolling at one point but he might actually be serious.