Mini Normal 1874: Camping Trip Mafia (Game Over)

[I Am Innocent]

EBWOP Nowhere between those VOTES does he renounce his read of TwoFace.*

[I Am Innocent]

Ok so after having a read through again, I noticed in #251 Shannon sticks up for Twoface re: the tunneling thing but then in #301 she starts lightly putting some pressure on him again. Its not much to go on, but it could potentially be the signs of a scum team here. Apologies for not knowing how to link post numbers properly (youll have to go back through manually if you want to take a look).

VOTE: Shannon

Quick Control F on your ISO shows this is the first time you mention Shannon. I find it interesting that it is an L-2 vote when you just got your third vote yourself. Self preservation much?

[I Am Innocent]

@Innocent: You realise you're voting Fykus *with* me, right?

Don't get me wrong, I support everyone jumping on Fykus, but it does make your attempts to push me look kind of fake.

Yeah what does that have to do with anything? I think one of you are scum. I like that they are competing wagons right now. Why would I move to you causing the votes to be 5-1 in ur favor and essentially kill the counter wagons I like right now. With 4 players not voting right now I want them to take a stance.

If it makes you feel any better the speed of ur wagon (like massive, sickofit, two face before you) while resistance to a fykus wagon points better in ur favor.

If you think one of us is scum, maybe you shouldn't risk voting *with* one of us? What if I'm scum and you've helped me lynch Fykus? (Note: not a real world scenario, but I feel like you should be more careful)

Because more important than lynching scum early in games is gathering information. Guess what, if town is lynched Day 1, town can still win. I just finished a game with massive where my only votes the first two days were on four town players, and they were in succession, the D1 mislynch, N1 kill, D2 mislynch, N2 kill. Pretty crappy, I know. You know what happened next. Town, including myself, pulled our crap together, and reeled on 3 straight scum lynches and won.

So that's the long answer to your question, the short answer is no, the risk of voting "with scum" on town D1 does not scare me.

[I Am Innocent]

shannon is town

I'm slowly starting to feel better about that slot. Not sure I'd say town yet, but I agree that her wagon is not good.

[I Am Innocent]

So fake claims = sh*t to me, and town should never make them.

But that redacted word does not mean scum. Once again we are talking mafia theory. Outside of RadiantCowbells, whose fakeclaims as town for some reason seem to pay off more than they hurt, I agree with you. But bad play, or joking play on page 1, is not necessarily scummy. You simply said you voted Sick for the fake claim. I like to see people vote people for scummy reasons, not poor play reasons. Otherwise, we policy lynch every bad player on the player list until they are gone, and see if we have any mislynches left to hunt scum.

[I Am Innocent]

VOTE COUNT 1.09

shannon (5): massive, lucca261, Soulmil07, Sickofit1138, Fykus
Fykus (4): shannon, I Am Innocent, mattblackguy, ssbm_Kyouko
Sickofit1138 (1): TwoFace
lucca261 (1): Lil Uzi Vert

Not Voting (2): Nadpool, SensFan

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Day 3 ends in (expired on 2017-02-09 16:49:02)

Marshmallow fun fact: The modern method of marshmallow production can be traced back to 1954, invented by Greek American confectioner Alex Doumak.

Yeah that is some real crap on the Shannon wagon. How about most of you on the Shannon wagon move over to Soulmil? I would feel better about Soulmil and Fykus as the top 2 wagons instead.

[mattblackguy]

I'm just being open and honest with my thought process, does that make me scummy? Sorry, I just assumed that honesty is the best policy here but I guess not.

If you think TwoFace is scum, and only think Shannon is scum because of interactions with TwoFace then why aren't you voting TwoFace instead of Shannon? You're not being clear with your thought process.

[massive]

Hey IamI, why do you want a competing wagon with Fykus, instead of trying to convince us to vote for Fykus along with you?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hey IamI, why do you want a competing wagon with Fykus, instead of trying to convince us to vote for Fykus along with you?

OOOOOH

[Nadpool]

Fykus pops in throwing out accusations that Two Face's play screamed scum to him. (Yet doesn't vote TwoFace)
Fykus later votes TwoFace. When called out about this delay in voting, he said it was because he wanted to see how TwoFace reacted first. So one could deduce that TwoFace failed the reaction test, meaning he only screamed more scum to Fykus.
Fykus later votes Nadpool for "offering nothing". Nowhere between those quotes does he renounce his read of TwoFace.*

* Sorry, but if someone screamed scum to me, I would not move my vote to someone whose play was just "offering nothing" unless it was near deadline and it was to avoid a no lynch. I'd be pushing that read hard the whole day if he really screamed scum to me.

Then again, maybe the "scream scum" was only shade from someone who drew a red card this game...

^^

[Nadpool]

VOTE: Fykus

[mattblackguy]

^^

[mattblackguy]

Looks like Fykus just gave up. He's still posting on the site, but not here.

[shannon]

Ooh goody I'm still alive. Wedding was epic but OMG I'm completely buggered.

Have only read this page, but looks like Nadpool just hammered Fykus. YAY. Bye Scum!

[mattblackguy]

Nah it's L-2

[mattblackguy]

wait why is sick on the shannon wagon. He said me and fykus were his top scumreads

[TwoFace]

He said he wanted Shannon to play better.

[Fykus]

Ok so after having a read through again, I noticed in #251 Shannon sticks up for Twoface re: the tunneling thing but then in #301 she starts lightly putting some pressure on him again. Its not much to go on, but it could potentially be the signs of a scum team here. Apologies for not knowing how to link post numbers properly (youll have to go back through manually if you want to take a look).

Three things about this:

1. Shannon doesn't even stick up for TwoFace in 251. She just confirmed what he said was true.
2. Your whole read on Shannon is based on the fact that you say TwoFace is scum. TwoFace hasn't even flipped yet. Voting Shannon based on this doesn't make sense.
3. Even if TwoFace was scum this still doesn't make Shannon scum. The association is really weak, and doesn't mean much.

Am I not entitled to have more than scum read at one time? Is it not normal to juggle votes between your scum reads based upon how many votes are on each?

yes I am of the opinion you are giving honest thought process lately but early I am of the opinion you did something weird with your thoughts regarding TwoFace

Can you explain what was weird about my thought process re: twoface? I thought I explained it reasonably well but I haven't had time to go back and double check that though.

No my problem is you said a player was screaming scum (Player A). Then you vote a player who has offered nothing (Player B) without ever changing a read on the player screaming scum.

Player B is a lurker, waste of space, call it whatever. Could be scum could be town from my experience. I personally agree that Nadpool might be scum albeit for additional reasons than "offering nothing."

So if Player A is screaming scum, and you never reliquinish that screaming scum read, one you specifically state later was only strengthened by a lack of a reasonable response:

"I thought id call him out on what I considered him to be doing to see if he'd offer a reasonable response. A page later he hadnt offered one, so I put my vote on him."

and then all of a sudden vote a lurker who is doing nothing, yeah that catches my eye.

LUV, what do you think about this?

I don't even know what's that about or even understand it to be honest.

TwoFace wagon became all the rage
Fykus pops in throwing out accusations that Two Face's play screamed scum to him. (Yet doesn't vote TwoFace)
Fykus later votes TwoFace. When called out about this delay in voting, he said it was because he wanted to see how TwoFace reacted first. So one could deduce that TwoFace failed the reaction test, meaning he only screamed more scum to Fykus.
Fykus later votes Nadpool for "offering nothing". Nowhere between those quotes does he renounce his read of TwoFace.*

* Sorry, but if someone screamed scum to me, I would not move my vote to someone whose play was just "offering nothing" unless it was near deadline and it was to avoid a no lynch. I'd be pushing that read hard the whole day if he really screamed scum to me.

Then again, maybe the "scream scum" was only shade from someone who drew a red card this game...

I've explained my reasons for not voting twoface straight away and in retrospect I should have so as to have avoided all of this drama. I'll take it on board next time I make an accusation like that. As for shifting my vote I was hoping to put some pressure on Nadpool to get him to contribute some more rather than one word/icon responses but it seems that's just how his account plays the game so it was pointless (that and the fact that nobody else seemed to agree with me regarding his playstyle seeming scummy at first glance so my vote was basically worthless).

This is my second game, but it seems to be that a vote can be a very powerful tool, thus I switch it around alot to hopefully help to solve the game via pressure or actually succeeding in getting scum lynched. (If this assumption is wrong I'd appreciate someone to point it out for me so that I can improve my play in the future)

Looks like Fykus just gave up. He's still posting on the site, but not here.

No, haven't given up, just short on time and the other game I'm currently in is potentially coming to a close so I thought it'd be best to focus on it at that time rather than try and do a big post for this game to catch up with.

[mattblackguy]

Am I not entitled to have more than scum read at one time? Is it not normal to juggle votes between your scum reads based upon how many votes are on each?

Sure, but can you tell me why you think Shannon is scum that doesn't involve TwoFace?

[lucca261]

I'm here guys. will read.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Blaze it

[Fykus]

Blaze it

top kek

[Fykus]

Am I not entitled to have more than scum read at one time? Is it not normal to juggle votes between your scum reads based upon how many votes are on each?

Sure, but can you tell me why you think Shannon is scum that doesn't involve TwoFace?

Give me a little bit and I'll go through and bring up all the relevant posts and whatnot. About to leave my pc atm.

[shannon]

So fake claims = sh*t to me, and town should never make them.

But that redacted word does not mean scum. Once again we are talking mafia theory. Outside of RadiantCowbells, whose fakeclaims as town for some reason seem to pay off more than they hurt, I agree with you. But bad play, or joking play on page 1, is not necessarily scummy. You simply said you voted Sick for the fake claim. I like to see people vote people for scummy reasons, not poor play reasons. Otherwise, we policy lynch every bad player on the player list until they are gone, and see if we have any mislynches left to hunt scum.

I understand what you're saying and how I've conflated scummy and poor play. I'll accept that criticism and you've made a good point.

[shannon]

He said he wanted Shannon to play better.

How is being at L-1 magically supposed to improve my skills at mafia?