Star Wars Rogue One [GAME OVER]

[Infinity 324]

Abilities:
2 Shot Vanillizer- At night you can select a player to vanilize and they will lose all their powers

including special abilities.

[Infinity 324]

cake plz vote zefiend
mastin plz vote zefiend

I'm predicting SirCakez will refuse (or maybe he'll join briefly, but leave for some bullshit reason), because they are in fact scumbuddies.

The problem is, I can help you lynch either of them, yet you won't give me anything in return. You won't help me lynch BBMolla when they flip scum, and that's the only thing which can make me switch. If you're going to be pursuing town after you lynch scum, it's not worth it. It's only if you pursue scum after lynching scum that it's worth a vote.

I KNOW that if I lynch BBMolla, you will continue to go after zefiend, maybe considering SirCakez.
I know that if I lynch zefiend, you'll be quick to pursue some moronic mislynch.

Am I wrong?

Tell me that, when zefiend flips scum, you'd consider going after BBMolla. Tell that to me with a straight face, absolute 100% sincerity. Do that, and you'll get my vote there. Otherwise, I'm sorry. No matter how much zefiend may be scum, I simply cannot in good faith vote there.

Ok, nero cain.

But yes, I'm considering the possibility of scum!molla now in fact. Not sure about heartless, but if you convince me molla is scum I will vote there. Good enough?

[Infinity 324]

I quite literally wrote the fucking book on NOT bussin

Oh yeah I remember that

[Infinity 324]

Also, I don't feel the need to establish myself as town by lynching yet another scum. That won't stop idiots from scumreading me, and it won't give people who aren't scumreading me any more proof than what they already have. In short, it won't change how people view me at all, because they'll make excuses or because they already knew and didn't need proof.

Ftr, I fall into neither of these categories.

[Drunken Piper]

I get the following results: No Result, X visited X,
or X visited no one, not complex.

I got that sir cakez visited no one.
so what am I missing here, but the fun?

you're missing the part where you say if pine targeted bbmolla or not

I hate to yell, I hate to shout,
but if I knew, would I have a problem?, FIGURE IT THE FUCK OUT.

Also, since I am sure scum knows by now, "aids"
rhymes with "trades". I am a fucking jack of all trades.

[Drunken Piper]

Titus had a really interesting vote change to me there... Like y'all have known my claim for a couple of days, what the hell was that delayed reaction?

DP sits on his bar stool. most of his gusto gone...

now

he just wonders why AJ chose to JK Cakez 2 nights in a row, and why he claimed for no reason

[Infinity 324]

But I think the game would benefit most from having more than one wagon on scum today.

Sure, but I don't really see that as likely rn. We barely have one wagon...

They start off questioning the guilty, trying to see where it comes from, what sort of validity it has, trying to see if it can be talked out of. And when they determine that it can't be, they vote the doomed scumbuddy.

That's a really crappy explanation of the concept, I need to go and explain exactly what I mean in more detail, but one of BBMolla's sins was that he did exactly that: he tried to argue against the Pine guilty, until he understood that it was not something which could be fought against. At that point, he sheepishly joined the wagon.

I think it depends. As scum if I saw a guilty on my partner, I sure as hell would be bussing right away. But you might be right on this point.

There's a reason I don't bus my scumbuddies.

It's because I can get away with being wrong on them.

^^ remember this guys

I think one of {molla, cakez, mastin} is scum. Zefiend is another scum.

Where you go wriong is assuming in only one scum. It's two. Is there anything in particular I can do (aside from casing Molla) which I can do to convince you it's BOTH of them, not just ONE of them?

That was another possibility I'm considering that I forgot to mention. I really do not want to go back and ISO cakez, so maybe I'll ISO you or you can give more reasons why he's scum too? That would be awesome.

I generally skim your posts because I hate your self applied restriction with a passion

Given molla;s apparent issue with people not talking to him, this is acout as close to a flat-out scumclaim as you're ever getting.

Don't really see it. I mean piper is the only person not talking in a post restriction, so if he's reading everyone else's posts then that makes sense...

You're funny when you're tired I think I

just

missed you since your last post was previewed in my first one. Hopefully we'll be on at the same time sometimes in the future. I'll go find the other reasons I was townreading molla.

[Drunken Piper]

VOTE: titus

[Infinity 324]

@mastin

like fuck man I really think you're town, mastina maybe not (?), but I really believe you are. can we talk about your worries about me and figure this shit out so we don't need to waste a lynch

I find this genuine btw.

Either scum had to risk a broken situation occurring by holding one of their vanillaize shots, or whenever Pine flipped we'd get 3 vanillaized claims for two shots.

This is a good point actually. What do you think mastin?

Another issue I have with the molla!scum narrative is why pine would risk dying before using all his shots given the day1 wagon thing and him joining the rogue crew.

Plus anti's issue of scum having too much power.

[Infinity 324]

Will say that my townread on cakez is fading. The reasons I was townreading him before seem weak now. But I don't see any huge reasons to scumread him either. He is different from order of the stick, a recent scumgame of his. But I don't feel like going through his ISO, so uh, yeah.

[Infinity 324]

I guess if anyone wants to talk to me about cakez and give their read+reasons, that'd be helpful.

[SirCakez]

it is my understanding the a JK, makes the "target" untargetable.
"no result" was not my result label.

Like others have said, that's not how JK usually works. AJ is still scum, but not for that reason.

DP sits on his bar stool. most of his gusto gone...

now he just wonders why AJ chose to JK Cakez 2 nights in a row, and why he claimed for no reason

Because it's a scum fakeclaim and he was desperate to get it out.

cake plz vote zefiend
mastin plz vote zefiend

I'm predicting SirCakez will refuse (or maybe he'll join briefly, but leave for some bullshit reason), because they are in fact scumbuddies.

lol rekt (sorry I had to)

[Infinity 324]

Because it's a scum fakeclaim and he was desperate to get it out.

Wait, explain this. Why does scum claim jk out of the blue which makes him potentially look suspicious (for reasons I can't understand, but nonetheless) when molla flips?

[Infinity 324]

And why did you not care about me and heartless both calling the claim town? And what's your read on molla/how is it affected by your read on aj?

[Infinity 324]

Being suspicious early d1, towning it up, then coasting/semi-coasting afterwards is definitely a scum narrative.

That's what happens when I get lazy, I forget about players...

[SirCakez]

Because it's a scum fakeclaim and he was desperate to get it out.

Wait, explain this. Why does scum claim jk out of the blue which makes him potentially look suspicious (for reasons I can't understand, but nonetheless) when molla flips?

Because of what you just said afterward!

And why did you not care about

me and heartless both calling the claim town

? And what's your read on molla/how is it affected by your read on aj?

I didn't care about it because I disagree.
I scumread Molla but it's unrelated to my AJ read.

[Infinity 324]

Because of what you just said afterward!

Just because it's WIFOM doesn't mean it's wrong.

How often do you see scum claim roles out of the blue?

And why did you not care about

me and heartless both calling the claim town

? And what's your read on molla/how is it affected by your read on aj?

I didn't care about it because I disagree.
I scumread Molla but it's unrelated to my AJ read.[/quote]

Are you concerned that you may have too many scumreads?

[Infinity 324]

Also, "I didn't care because I disagree" is not good play if you're town.

[SirCakez]

Because of what you just said afterward!

Just because it's WIFOM doesn't mean it's wrong.

How often do you see scum claim roles out of the blue?

And why did you not care about

me and heartless both calling the claim town

? And what's your read on molla/how is it affected by your read on aj?

I didn't care about it because I disagree.
I scumread Molla but it's unrelated to my AJ read.

Are you concerned that you may have too many scumreads?

What WIFOM?
When they're being pressured, a good amount.

No, I have 4: Titus, Molla, AJ, Zefiend. Since there's probably 3 scum left that seems about right to me, one is likely town.
P-edit: What makes it bad play? I'm curious.

[Infinity 324]

AJ had, what, 3 votes on him? That's not a lot of pressure. What do you think about the whole thing where he was trying to figure out if he could jk heartless and still have them gives out roles?

Who do you think is the most likely to be wrong of the scumreads?

It's bad play because it doesn't help the town work together. Especially when it's a relatively important event, you should weigh in. People not engaging the people they disagree with is a lot of the reason why the game is stagnating imo. (though a little bit less in the past day)

[Infinity 324]

Now you're going to talk about how I didn't give a case on you d1...but the game was a lot more active then, and directly addressing the person you scumread can often be unproductive.

[Heartless]

That in combination with Nero's points heavily challenged my one-dimensjonal read on mastina

what were these points?

This is the bulk of the conversation with Pere and Nero about mastin

Spoiler:

I feel that mastina's defense against his concerns (re: the timeline of game events, and the motivations behind Pine and mastina's actions) was legitimate.

I think Mastina's timeline jazz is just fucking strongly worded bullshit but if you actually read it then it makes no sense. For all intents and purposes we'll assume Mastina is scum in this post. Like Pine had a role that publicly outs his action. Both him and Mastina would know this. Her main argument here is that scum wouldn't know who was getting into the crew, however, this totally ignores that Heartless

DID

state who she wanted in the crew. Why does she gloss over that? Also, from what I understand, Pine joined late so its possible that scum used their action once it was confirmed there was no scum in the crew.

So explain to me why I should just accept that Mastina is town and their history let her scum read Pine. When A.) it makes sense to bus a player that will eventually go down. B.) She was strong arming said lynch with little to no reason. Why couldn't she have just said "oh this post and this post and this post gives me bad vibes." As long winded as she is she could have done so and I don't think she ever did wich I think is sketchy as fuck.

mastin not giving specifics is NAI

maybe maybe not. Sure I've seen town not give reasons but that's bad town play. I'd like to think that Mastin is not bad.

I think scum are plenty capable of doing so. Infact you keep going on about how you've played with Titus scum. She hard defends/town reads her buddies all the time.

Yeah I'm not really buying into the whole "no way would I bus Pine since we are besties from way back." I think you'd bus him/he'd want to be bussed if it gave scum a tactical advantage. As soon as he used his ability he was very likely to get lynched and scum would have known this day 1.

I'm no where near having read the whole game, but I started with a Pine ISO and jumped into points there.

@Mastin-

My biggest issue with your claim is the point in time you came up with your Pine scumread (post 512).
You then "read", and confirm it with your vote 520.

this is followed by "Molla might be scum" (521). Based on progression, this read comes from:
[...long ass spoiler...] Which looks like a bunch of /Gin posting

But, by 584, you have sloidifdied that Pine-a-tronics is scum.

At least she's Town this game.

Yes I am! You, however, are your usual scumfuck self!

And this:

Pine is also scum. I prefer to vote Pine, in spite of SirCakez being scum, because lynching scum is lynching scum. The who or the why isn't as important as the act itself. Obviously I'll vote SirCakez if I can't lynch Pine. That goes without saying. But Pine is the scum I would prefer to lynch, because my scumread there is not only stronger, it is also on a firmer basis (I know Pine better), with better reasons, and also on someone who WILL slip away if you let him go.

Meanwhile, neither head of the hydra tries really hard to break you from your read, nor do they try to engage you that I can see. If your sure Pine is scum based on his 5 posts, yet the Gin side does nothign to affect your read?

Sounds kind of fake.

Triple ISO of Pine-Mastin-Molla

Code: Select all

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=69912&f=3&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select%5B%5D=28641&user_select%5B%5D=29138&user_select%5B%5D=16026&user_sort=Go

I feel that mastina's defense against his concerns (re: the timeline of game events, and the motivations behind Pine and mastina's actions) was legitimate.

I think Mastina's timeline jazz is just fucking strongly worded bullshit but if you actually read it then it makes no sense. For all intents and purposes we'll assume Mastina is scum in this post. Like Pine had a role that publicly outs his action. Both him and Mastina would know this. Her main argument here is that scum wouldn't know who was getting into the crew, however, this totally ignores that Heartless

DID

state who she wanted in the crew. Why does she gloss over that? Also, from what I understand, Pine joined late so its possible that scum used their action once it was confirmed there was no scum in the crew.

So explain to me why I should just accept that Mastina is town and their history let her scum read Pine. When A.) it makes sense to bus a player that will eventually go down. B.) She was strong arming said lynch with little to no reason. Why couldn't she have just said "oh this post and this post and this post gives me bad vibes." As long winded as she is she could have done so and I don't think she ever did wich I think is sketchy as fuck.

The only problem I have with your logic is when you say Pine "will eventually go down." I don't know if there's credence to that statement before the guilty result comes out.

As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.

Pine & Mastin interaction was zero. And most of the "Pine" was the other hydra head.
Mastina did not "sort" PineTornics, she already knew he was scum.
And he didn't fight it, no matter how often she repeated it over and over again, because no way did they want a 1v1 with each other.

yeah... no, you have now formally surrendered the right to bitch about "engagement" with me because the point of me asking was for you to state the reasoning IN YOUR OWN WORDS not to just glibly quote posts, which i can already see.

[Heartless]

Aeronaut's interpretation of Jailkeeper in that game goes against what some of y'all are saying is normal/standard on MS.

i have seen this variation of jk used before on this site, but only by mods not from this site (i believe aero is one of these iirc)

the only precedence i can find of fire's is that he used the MS definition of jailkeeper in mass effect http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8174705

[Heartless]

Am I wrong?

not about where i stand on bbmolla

you do what you feel like you have to, mastin. if you don't trust my reads beyond zefiend, i can respect that. and i can see how you have a scumread on molla bc frankly his posting sucks. but i have a very hard time bringing myself to think that fire thought molla's role (as a scum role) would be acceptable w/ ari's role AND that rc would let that through, not to mention i think they would have a hard time balancing molla+pine's powers.

[Firebringer]

nope.