@Grey, so here are my responses to your main case post. Try to read this with an unbiased mind if you really want a response from me. You will understand it better if you remember one thing that I have repeatedly said. As town I many times second guess myself. I tend to think "Is this completely impossible to come from a townie?" At times I have burnt my hands due to this. But thats me. So whenever possible I will try to give benefit of doubt to others. But then there will be someone about whom I do get fixated as scumreads.
In post 843, -Grey- wrote:15 is slimy. bang accuses me of outing PR's then fishes for those same PR's to cc me. On top of that, he votes RC instead of me which makes absolutely no sense at all to me.
Read it at the face value. I can say this because in this game I absolutely dont have anything to hide. I have never played gretaer mafia before, and even in whatever games I have played I have never encountered a claim on page 1. Yes, that startled me. I accused you of outing the PRs because thats what you would have done had you been speaking truth. But I never FISHED for PRs. Read the post again. The only guys who would know you were lying would be the 2 you mentioned. So I appealed to them to expose you if you were lying. That would happen ONLY if they were NOT PRs. SO hows that fishing? It was RVS and I voted for RC because he gave a shitty reason to vote alban. Who votes someone for being V/LA?
In post 843, -Grey- wrote: His attempt at hairsplitting in
239 doesn't sit right with me. It's an overly defensive response to a simple deduction. Also, he seems to use lynching as a weapon to threaten those who suspect him.
There was no hairsplitting there. I just responded to your accusation of "So you scold me for roleclaiming on the grounds that it outs three (presumably town) power roles... in a role madness game, no less... then illustrate why my claim doesn't prove alignment at all in the same post."
Well, had I not responded to you, I am sure you would have used that too against me- See see he is evading my questions. He has to be scum!
There are some things which players learn. In my first game, I was a scum with Charl. Charl lied and people kept thinking he cant lie so blatantly. When I joined dead PT, someone said this is the best example- Lynch all liers. I remembered that when you said you lied. Hows that AI?
In post 843, -Grey- wrote: 269, he questions why Spade would claim his wincon, but he's not at all curious about Spade's antitown power?
Whats wrong with you? I thought its almost an unwritten rule on MS not to speculate too much about the roles- more so when you have 151 possibilities. As town, at that point, I didnt want another townie to even softclaim. I wasnt interested in Spade's role. Is that scummy or townie? As scum I would have rolefished at that time. But I was upset that by softclaiming a PR, someone might be giving scum ideas where to shoot at night. In hindsight, town!Spade might have done it deliberately as by his own admission he didnt know killing will NOT lead to cult conversion.
Take out your red glass and you will see possibilities of a town-scum interaction there.
In post 843, -Grey- wrote: 277, he butters Gamma a little unnecessarily (others had already brought up opinions and questions for others based on discards). Also, he admits my deduction from his initial post was correct.
In both the games I have played apart from this, Gamma was there. So I guess I was being what they call as being civilized and courteous. Others had opinions about discards, but Gamma for the first time put it in specific words. I liked it, so said it. I remember someone even saying this is scum!bang noting tips for his scumplay. Are you guys like serious?
In post 843, -Grey- wrote: 296, he continues trying to split hairs and ignoring the fact that the only PR's town needs to worry about outting are town PR's. That he was objecting to me possibly outing PR's implied that he was concerned that I was risking town power, which is why his immediate vote for RC in the same post he called me out made his entire post look scummy as hell.
Where is any hairsplitting in 296? I was responding to you. This is crazy. Responding to you is called hairsplitting, is it?
In post 843, -Grey- wrote: 341,
he had
he wanted to accomplish when he questioned me in
15. I'm sorry, but that's not town. Town asks questions to gamesolve and sort alignments. bang admitted he was doing neither. Also, putting the two players who are interacting with him the most as strong town, while simultaneously listing the player his strongtown read replaced as nullscum. Very scummy. No mention of davesaz in his reads.
Maybe a difference in our English. In my mind, "Accomplish" attributes motives. Gamma's question was- "bang - what were you trying to accomplish with your Grey interaction?" I meant to respond that, there was nothing specific in my mind. Grey claimed on page 1, I responded, he suspected me for my response, I answered. It was all a responsive behavior. That does not mean at the least that I am not trying to gamesolve. We all ask questions, respond, make reads list finally to gamesolve only, right? So why did you ignore all my efforts/reads list / interactions / participation and use only this one sentence to accuse of NOT gamesolving or sort alignments. Why was I listing my reads if I didnt want to sort alignments?
My mistake that I didnt notice Gamma was a replacement of culted. I townread Gamma coz of her interaction and null-to-scum read Culted because of lurking not realizing culted was already replaced out. Since I counted and there were already 11 names, I just forgot about Daves. Hows that scummy, dude? A scum would take lot of time and caution in preparing their responses and would never let such silly inconsistencies creep in. So for Christ's sake!
In post 843, -Grey- wrote: 386,
he hints at suspicion towards both of his strong town reads, but isn't actively trying to nail down those reads. His response to Spade's question about the self-vote was a deflection. Why didn't he just give his opinion on it right there instead of make an excuse to ignore it?
That may be because unlike many players on MS, I have a full fledged and extremely busy job in real life. Have you even noticed that I havent posted anything between Spade's vote in 346 and my post #386. So whenever I might have next come online, I might have taken time to read and then post. I dont sit around MS all the day waiting for each and every post to respond.
Think whatever you want. Its also called frustration with fellow townies who are not ready to listen to you. Even now, whats happening is the little time I get, gets spent answering to bullshit like this. Bullshit because I know I am a townie. Instead of OR ATLEAST in addition to making this case on me, why dont you respond to the observations I made about Spade and why I find him scummy, about my suggestion of a townie PR deliberately targetting Spade at night and then telling the town the outcome etc etc?
I am tired, Grey. Dont even want to answer non red flags. I found something scummy but want to vote for Charl at that moment. How do I put that on record for town in case I die night 1?
In post 843, -Grey- wrote: 559, he admits it's his style to push for the lynch of those who scumreads him as scum... and then votes for Spade... who is scumreading him!
Do you even realize a scum would not open their cards and strategies so easily and openly? Especially when there are other players who have seen me as scum and also as town?
In post 843, -Grey- wrote: 587 criticizes Spade for "buttering" me, and appeals to me in the same post. Meh feels.
ROFL! You putting me and spade in the same category? Spade did some major buttering. I just said, trust your instincts. Coz, only I would know whether your read on me is rightr or wrong, right? If I wanted to butter, I would not have majorly objected for your foul day 1 language.
No sir, I have seen this many times. Aggressive idiot townies are exploited by scum by buddying, sheeping etc to create a general mindset against lynchbaits.
In post 843, -Grey- wrote:629,
he goes from abrasiveness to appeasing, which feels like cogdiss. Either approach on its own might have been genuine, but they're two conflicting states of mind.
You just read too much into everything mate. I usually will give benefit of doubt to anyone who wants to further the game. So I pointed out that you have not given any reasons for voting me so that I can respond to them. And at the same time, since you asked me reads, I gave it. Dont go by your own rulebook. There are people who respond when posed with a question!
In post 843, -Grey- wrote: 691 - bang was so sold on Spade being scum, but completely buys an unverifiable claim that makes for an excellent fake claim. Why? Because he knew it would simply make it that much easier to lynch him for being negative utility.
When I said I thought he was scum, I did give reasons. When he came up with a claim, I have to consider some possibility of it being true, right? I openly said in #629, that I scumread Spade but also had my doubts originating from 589. And all this, much before he claimed. So yes, I did find some possibility of his claim being correct. Then as I started thinking, I felt its a negative utility so lynching him could be better. Then, again I realized that you are a better lynch for town than Spade.
In post 843, -Grey- wrote: 765,
there is no pro-town reason to massclaim. Doing so only gives scum a roadmap for their kills.
I didnt know how greater mafia works. in my first game 657, it was precisely the massclaim that gave a scum!me and my partner away. So was just asking people whether its a good idea for this setup. As soon as I realized that claimed roles can not prove or disprove unclaimed roles, I understood the mechanics and shut my mouth. Whats Red Flag in collectively thinking about an idea.
I even didnt know what a black goo is. As spade explained it was immune to all roles, I thought why it cant be scum. Now that its clear that its NOT immune to killers, I feel Spade may for all you know could be speaking truth. But since he was my no 1 scum read, I cant just write him off in my mind. So thought of another way to confirm his claim.
No! For heaven's sake! I was not painting anyone as malicious there. I was upset that a town!Spade could have easily clarified this technical part before openly claiming. It was town frustration of me, rather than throwing shade on anyone.
Now, I am sure there will be people who will scumread me for writing such a long reply. I am done with defending myself. The town can lynch me if they want. I dont think I am of any value anyway.
I feel we need to lynch Grey just for converting him to town ASAP. And someone with night actions could target Spade and tell us the next day if he is lying. I would also like each one of us to give a reads list with reason, just in case they die at night.
VOTE: Grey
