Mini 1877: Spyro the Dragon (Game Over)

[Infinity 324]

Gin's 1501 explains why this would be a bad reason to scumread someone, but my issue with your post is that it feels like a premature backtrack. You're townreading him and said that he'd have to be "god scum" this game, yet you felt the need to state conditions under which you would change your read. There's no reason for town to foreshadow how their reads might change, since town play is inherently reactive, but I can see why scum might feel the need to have a backdoor in their ISO, just in case. Commenting on LYLO reads D1 just seems too forward-thinking for town.

Having recently finished a game in which 2 scum I had strong townreads on both lived to endgame, I may be thinking about things a little differently than you expect.

[Leonshade]

@rc, because I townread Gin, and my gut says you're scum. Our last two games you were scum, one I was blown away you didn't get lynched after 2 fake claims, the other I was pretty confident you were scum, but I couldn't explain it clearly. Here I'm getting that feeling because I know you've played the "people just want to lynch me to say they lynched me incase I'm scum" and you play "id never play shitty as town to make my scum game better" cards. Also I totally agree that you AtE incessantly until it works and people go from "this is scum rc, look what he's doing" to "wow he's doing it SO MUCH he can't be scum" like infinity has done.

Leon is a town read.

@moi I've changed my mind on Leon, so my scum reads are still raging, because I see the fake claim the opposite of everyone else except Leon.

That she tested the waters, realized how it could fuck her over, and came clean. She wasn't thinking clearly, thinking she could maybe get the vig lynched, but realized how bad of an idea it was.

I'm glad that someone can see it the same way, especially a conftown player. I was starting to doubt my read when it looked like nobody else agreed with me, but this proves that I'm not crazy. I was going to ask about your read change on me the first time I saw this post, but that's unnecessary now.

[Leonshade]

Gin's 1501 explains why this would be a bad reason to scumread someone, but my issue with your post is that it feels like a premature backtrack. You're townreading him and said that he'd have to be "god scum" this game, yet you felt the need to state conditions under which you would change your read. There's no reason for town to foreshadow how their reads might change, since town play is inherently reactive, but I can see why scum might feel the need to have a backdoor in their ISO, just in case. Commenting on LYLO reads D1 just seems too forward-thinking for town.

Having recently finished a game in which 2 scum I had strong townreads on both lived to endgame, I may be thinking about things a little differently than you expect.

Which game was this?

[SirCakez]

I don't like that gin vote from cakez

Why tho?

[Infinity 324]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=70181

PEdit: it seems opportunistic and out of nowhere. But now that you ask, let's talk about it. Why does scum!gin who's so confident in his scum game, replace out under pressure? Why can't town!gin be frustrated and not thinking clearly?

[SirCakez]

I've been scumreading Gin for a while though.
Because he's frustrated with toxicity? I've felt super frustrated as scum before (although I've never replaced out).

[Infinity 324]

It could be "this guy so bad and he's going to catch me? fuck that" as scum but I find it more likely that it's "this idiot is going to shoot me? fuck that" or "this guy is so bad and I have to work with him? fuck that" from town

And I didn't realize you were scumreading gin before, fair

[Leonshade]

@leon: Can you explain this more? Why not a town reaction test? And why would scum expect to get a lynch from that?

My initial reaction was that it made no sense for a town reaction test. It wasn't something most people would even notice, so how would you expect to get reactions from it? And the justification that Gin isn't scum because he didn't notice it makes zero sense. That's why I think that RS did it to test the waters for a CC, but gave himself plausible deniability and quickly backed out. Outing it himself allowed him to get ahead of the story and spin it into a reaction test.

A Spyro CC would lead to a 1v1. Bad trade for scum, but then that's probably why RS backed out.

I've mellowed out on the possibility of it being a reaction test, but attempted CC was my first instinct and I still think it's more likely. It wasn't a smart play for either alignment, but some people seem to think that only town can play dumb, when that's not the case.

[Infinity 324]

Occam's razor says it's a silly town play rather than a weird scum gambit. There's a lot more on the line for scum if they do a play like that.

Also it would take more thinking through as scum...don't you think they would be more likely think through that it's a dumb play?

Also I don't think scum would even out it if no one noticed anyway.

[Leonshade]

While you're here Cakez: Explain your RS townread and Aella scumread.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=70181

PEdit: it seems opportunistic and out of nowhere. But now that you ask, let's talk about it. Why does scum!gin who's so confident in his scum game, replace out under pressure? Why can't town!gin be frustrated and not thinking clearly?

Ok. I still think that your reasoning is wrong, and the statement is still premature. I could see PTSD playing a factor in it, though.

Occam's razor says it's a silly town play rather than a weird scum gambit. There's a lot more on the line for scum if they do a play like that.

Also it would take more thinking through as scum...don't you think they would be more likely think through that it's a dumb play?

Also I don't think scum would even out it if no one noticed anyway.

Scum are generally more cautious, sure. Doesn't mean that RS is. But I do generally agree that reckless plays are more likely town than scum.

RS could've just outed it so no one could use it against them, later.

[Infinity 324]

Fair on both

[lane0168]

VOTE: ragingspamers

Deadline is in 5 hours. Let's vote here

[Infinity 324]

Deadline: (expired on 2017-02-20 01:23:53).[/color][/font][/size]

[lane0168]

It had a lot of pressure for good reasons earlier in the day. And it's now non existent, dropping in to say they aren't doing anything the rest of the day. Convenient after the pressure is relieved.

Infinity, of course scum would out it. Once they realized how idiotic it was. None of it makes sense coming from town. None of it. You can make a case for why scum would counter claim someone, even if it's a bad idea

[lane0168]

Deadline: (expired on 2017-02-20 01:23:53).[/color][/font][/size]

Wrong. It's in 4 hours

[Infinity 324]

Deadline: (expired on 2017-02-20 01:23:53).[/color][/font][/size]

Wrong. It's in 4 hours

wtf? That's a countdown

[lane0168]

Come to a consensus people! 3 HOURS TO DEADLINE!

[Leonshade]

VOTE: RagingSpammers

2 HOURS TO DEADLINE TIME TO PANIC

[lane0168]

How legitimate do you think the argument is of "day 2 double voter is basically VT for balance" Leon?

[Infinity 324]

Infinity, of course scum would out it. Once they realized how idiotic it was. None of it makes sense coming from town. None of it. You can make a case for why scum would counter claim someone, even if it's a bad idea

And what's that case exactly?

Just like scum can do dumb stuff, town can do dumb stuff too. But I think I explained why it's more likely for it to be dumb town than dumb scum.

I guess it makes sense for scum to out it so no one catches them with it later. But if scum wanted the counterclaim to be noticed it would be noticed. Waiting until d2 to backtrack is just too dumb for anyone to attempt imo.

Again, there's a lot more incentive for scum to think things through carefully in this case than town.

[Infinity 324]

lol, the 9 day deadline is a countdown so it's still accurate. we got time

[lane0168]

Everything rc says, is something scum!rc would say. Id probably bet even money theyre scum

[lane0168]

lol, the 9 day deadline is a countdown so it's still accurate. we got time

I'm not ic jk. I'm ic deadline controller...

And I'm trying not to have a 150 page day 1

[Leonshade]

How legitimate do you think the argument is of "day 2 double voter is basically VT for balance" Leon?

If the claim is real, then the statement is true. I don't like to do setup spec, especially D1, so the claim doesn't affect my reads right now. It is the weakest of the roles thus far, though, I think I know what you're getting at. It sounds like the fakest of the claims thus far.

[Leonshade]

lol, the 9 day deadline is a countdown so it's still accurate. we got time

...you actually don't get it, do you?