2017 NFL Football

[T-Bone]

No way Romo goes to KC. They are satisfied with Alex, and he just came off one of the best years of his career.

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I think we're getting slightly carried away with all the Romo love. "Romo makes THIS team a Superbowl contender". Romo hasn't completed a full season in 5 years. Temper yourselves.

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Superbowl contenders tend to already have quality QBs and won't need Romo. KC being one of them.

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Why did the Saints want to trade Cooks so badly?

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What makes someone more likely to things that break the rules in Vegas that they cannot do in any other city in the country? You're telling me a practice squad player can't gamble in Green Bay? Do you think a player can't hire a prostitute in Tallahassee?

[T-Bone]

Romo doesn't have the stats to back up a Hall of Fame bid. He could get in the Hall in a weak class, but I don't think he'll get there.

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Aikman also had Emmitt Smith in a run-first offense.

[T-Bone]

Let's do it, put your final mock draft here! If you have any comments, go for it. I originally intended only to comment on a few teams, but ended up commenting on most of the teams.

1. Browns - DE Myles Garrett

I know a lot of people are putting Trubisky here, but I think they ride with Kessler and Co. My bold prediction is that the Browns don't take a QB in the first 3 rounds.

2. 49ers - QB Mitch Trubisky

Unlike other QB needy teams in the draft, this is the only team without even a stop gap option on the roster, so they are taking a QB no matter what (even if Browns decide to throw away Garrett for one).

3. Bears - S Malik Hooker

I don't think any other QB is a 1st round pick, so Bears will take the best player at a position of need and not reach.

4. Jags - DL Jonathan Allen

Taking the best player available, and this is an RB rich draft, they can get one later.

5. Titans - CB Marshawn Lattimore

I think the Titans trade this pick, but whoever ends up with it has Lattimore as the best player on the board. Although leapfrogging the Jets to prevent their next pick is possible too.

6. Jets - QB DeShaun Watson

The Jets shouldn't take a QB...but they probably will take Watson if he's on the board. I think they should get some pieces and give Petty and Hackenburg a real shot with quality players around them, as opposed to drafting Watson so he can also fail in their offense.

7. Chargers - RB Christian McCaffery

He is more like the types of RBs the Chargers do well with, Darren Sproles and Danny Woodhead come to mind.

8. Panthers - RB Lenard Fournette

This is a good fit for the Panthers I think.

9. Bengals - DT Solomon Thomas

They need a big DT, so here they go.

10. Bills - S Jamal Adams

Best player on the board, they take him.

11. Saints - LB Rueben Foster

Best player blah blah blah.

12. Browns - DT Taco Charlton

Best player blah blah blah...still no QB pick.

13. Cardinals - CB Sidney Jones

Cards get the successor to Peterson.

14. Eagles - DE Haason Reddick

There are a couple of DE types on the board here, but I think Reddick being a local kid tips the scales in his favor.

15. Colts - OT Ryan Ramczyk

They need to take a (few) Tackle(s) or Luck is going to die this season.

16. Ravens - WR Mike Williams

I think with the focus on defense early in the draft it'll leave someone like Williams to go to the Ravens. We desperately need a #1 target, and Williams seems like that type of player. I could also see us trading down and collecting a late first and another 2nd. That would probably be best if Williams isn't on the board.

17. Redskins - LB Jabrill Peppers

Best player, blah blah blah.

18. Titans - WR Corey Davis

Mariota needs more weapons if the Titans are going to take a weak AFC South.

19. Bucs - DT Caleb Brantley

Best player blah blah blah

20. Broncos - OL Cam Robertson

I really like his versatility, so an OL needy Broncos will like it too.

21. Lions - DT Malik McDowell

Best player, blah blah blah

22. Dolphins - OT Forrest Lamp

Best player, blah blah blah

23. Giants - RB Dalvin Cook

The Gnats desperately need an RB to compete with the Cowgirls, so I think they take one here, despite needs at other positions, because the top players will be off the board at this point.

24. Raiders - DE Derek Barnett

Best player, blah blah blah

25. Texans - QB Patrick Mahomes

The Texans should not take Mahomes (and really, no one should) but I'm sure they've convinced themselves that they need to take him because he's a Texas guy, and he has the ability to throw a 70 yard 50-50 jump ball. My 2nd bold prediction is someone is getting fired because of this selection at the end of the season.

26. Seahawks - OT Garett Bolles

Although the Seahawks have a history of surprising everyone with a sleeper pick, I think this is the type of player the Seahawks would pick.

27. Chiefs - LB Zach Cunningham

Although I don't think Deshon Kizer (as he is my #2 QB overall) is out of the question as the heir to Alex Smith, but Cunningham is the best player on the board at this point.

28. Cowgirls - CB Marlon Humphrey

Cowgirls will take the best DB on the board.

29. Packers - DE Tim Williams

That defense needs help to balance out Rodgers, Pack needs to start working on it.

30. Steelers - LB Ryan Anderson

Steelers probably start trying to make their defense elite again.

31. Falcons - TE OJ Howard

A lot of people have Howard going really high, but I think most teams have more pressing needs elsewhere. Falcons already have a pretty scary team, why not try to win now by giving Ryan another weapon?

32. Saints - CB Tre'Davious White

A pick I imagine is traded away (maybe someone grabs Kizer here), but if not, Saints take the best DB available to them.

[T-Bone]

What part of best player, blah blah blah did you not understand lol?

I'm not really up and up on who's who in college prospects, but I think projections have Jones ready for pre-season.

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Wow, 5 skill position players in the Top 10. When was the last time that happened?

Wow, people are going to lose their jobs in KC over this trade and pick.

[T-Bone]

Chiefs traded up to take Mahomes, who is extremely over-rated because he can throw jump balls really, really far.

Ironically, in many ways, he is the exact opposite of Alex Smith, who can't throw beyond the line of scrimmage. Although Smith is smart, has great footwork, and great pocket awareness so...

[T-Bone]

CB was a position of need, but can't say I'm excited about Humphrey when Allen, Foster, and Robinson are still on the board. But, hey we need an elite CB, hopefully he becomes it.

[T-Bone]

Do you think Alex Smith had de ja vu nightmares last night?

[T-Bone]

I actually felt Kizer was the #2 QB in this class, so in a vacuum, the Browns did well to not use a 1st Rounder on him. But no QB from this class is going to be the type of QB that makes everyone else around them better, so really none of them are going into a good situation. Trubisky is going to crash and burn, and his career will be ruined because the Bear's offense is horrible. Mahomes is an awful QB to begin with, so I imagine he'll be getting someone fired in short order after he starts playing. Smith is getting flashbacks. Watson is going to an awful Texans offense. Although luckily it looks like their playbook actually favors his style of QB, so maybe he'll be mediocre. I guess David Webb is in the best situation out of all of them.

[T-Bone]

Well, I think the problems he has as a QB are fixable compared to Mahomes or Watson.

Mahomes is afraid of clean pockets, and that's instinctual at this point. It can't be fixed long term, because in order for him to fight the urge he'll have to be actively thinking about it. I think people fell in love with Mahomes because he could throw the ball really, really far. So what?

Watson has similar problems fearing clean pockets, but unlike Mahomes is able to set his feet some of the time when he throws. He sometimes throws better balls.

Kizer has pro footwork. He just doesn't have much else going for him (noodle arm, no ability to read defenses, no ability to progress through his receivers). But reading defenses and decision-making can be taught, which is why I rank him #2 in this class. He'll still need good players around him to make up for his shortcomings as a thrower, but he isn't going to make bad decisions because he can't plant his feet on the ground.

This isn't a very good draft class, it's Gabbert, Locker, Weeden all over again. So being #2 isn't all that special.

Basically, I think the problems Kizer has are fixable, and the problems Mahomes and Watson have aren't.

[T-Bone]

Gosh betting over football....

In 2015 I had a bet with a friend, who said the Skins would win the NFC East, and he was so confident he'd put money on it, so he took the Skins, and I took the field. Then Romo goes ahead and breaks his neck twice...Eli sets an interception record...and I don't even know what the Eagles were doing, and the Skins come from 4-12 season to winning the division.

Long story short...fuck the NFC East.

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How motivated would you be to play your best...when you were on the Browns?

He'll probably be motivated to play well on his new team.

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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... airy-queen

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It's weird that sports are just about the only industry where the majority of fans are on management's side.

Le'Veon wants to get paid what he feels he's worth. What's so bad about it?

As a Raven's fan, I am happy if he stays off the field. As a fellow human, I am behind his decision to hold out.

[T-Bone]

LOLOL

Let's flip this.

BEGIN SCENE

The Steeler's organization is already making tens of millions of dollars regardless

I value team and performance over money and I'm extremely poor, so when I see the rich quabbling over millions when there is more value in things like relationships with your emploees, peers, and teamwork and working towards a common goal (being a great team, winning a championship), it's utterly stupid

it's greedy and shows that they value money over football, and it doesn't matter that this is 'what every sports organization does'. It doesn't need to be that way, and a good executive can set an example. (there have been plenty of organizations willing to pay a luxury tax so they can make their team more competitive)

END SCENE

[T-Bone]

The problem where players play a sport that is killing them and make them (the team) billions of dollars?

You're right, I can't see it.

[T-Bone]

Are you anti-worker in general?

Let's roleplay.

"Dreal, you have brought immense value to our company over the last 3 years. I see that you would like a pay raise to reflect the value that you have brought us. However, I am only willing to give you a fraction of the pay raise you've requested. I hope that you take this insignificant pay raise and your continued chemistry with your fellow employees as compensation enough."

What do you do?

[T-Bone]

Let's say all those are true BUT you still have provided more monetary value to your company than what you are worth.

[T-Bone]

It is just super weird to me that we are so ANTI-WORKER when it comes to athletes.

If we were talking about teachers holding out for a pay raise that was completely within the realm of happening, would you also be singing the 'the job should be enough' tune?

Or if we were talking about police officers. Or nurses. Or firefighters. I promise you all those employers have salary limitations too. I doubt many people would be saying 'no, don't pay them what they are valued!'

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Oh...so we should make an EXCEPTION because football players make millions of dollars?

How much money do you think the owner makes? Or the GM? How many yards did they run for the Steelers last year?

Surely you object to them making money since they don't contribute to on field performance, right?

[T-Bone]

So there is a number where money shouldn't matter anymore?

Teacher, nurse, or police officer salary isn't your line. I'm curious as to where it is?

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Listen, I get the idea that at a certain point there isn't much of a difference between millions of dollars and more millions of dollars.

But, this is still a job for Bell. He should have the same rights as a worker that everyone else has. The average worker has the ability to negotiate for pay, and take their talents to another job if they are unhappy. For athletes...there is ONE pro league. The NFL has a monopoly on Football. Bell who's job is a professional football player, cannot go to another league to be a professional football player.

Yes, I know there are scrub leagues. But, would you expect a teacher to walk from her job to flip burgers at McDonald's? That would be the same as what Bell would have to do to play arena ball.

[T-Bone]

Ah. So the real issue is that Bell has the ability to do what most workers can't. He can be like other workers in most respects (denied a few rights), but this ability of his is what separates him in your mind, and thus, makes him worthy of anti-worker sentiment that you would never give any of the other professions I mentioned?

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Well like I said originally, I doubt you would be so pro-company if it were any other profession. It's just this one.

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I get that at a certain point that there isn't a difference between 14 and 15 million dollars, and it is easy to say 'this is greed'. Especially since the organization in question can afford it, and it isn't unreasonable based on his value.

But you wouldn't say that about 14 per hour vs. 15 per hour.

[T-Bone]

Anyway, I don't want to flood this thread with this anymore. I 100% recognize that people would feel like that once you're making millions of dollars, you shouldn't squabble about the amount. I know it's not the same as a teacher making 30K a year struggling to pay bills.

I just don't feel that I can be a person who is pro-worker...and side with management when it comes to athletes just because they make a lot of money. Athletes are still workers, and should still want to make money based on the value they bring to their company.

Let's go back to other football talk.

I really like Cian Fahey. He's (imo) a great Quarterback scout...and he released this.

http://presnapreads.com/2017/08/29/nfl- ... 17-season/

It's a long read but a good one.

The highlights for me.

I've always agreed with his Deshone Kizer evaluation, and I rated him my #2 quarterback out of the draft (a lot of my opinion did come from Cian, however)

I don't think you can argue with the stats, Colin Kaepernick is better than half the starters in the league. He's being blackballed.

I'm sad by how far Flacco has fallen off a cliff. (also damn them for not signing Kaep)

Some of the comments are hilarious. "Josh McCown has never met a sack he didn't try to run into" made laugh uncontrollably for a minute.

Good read overall. I know some people think Cian is over-rated as a scout, but I've always found his analysis to track well in my opinion.

[T-Bone]

I think repeated injuries has ruined him to be honest. We need to look for another QB.

[T-Bone]

Yeah well...none of that really holds up.

He's consistently improved as a quarterback since 2012, so his skill set isn't the issue.

You could maybe argue that he was unhappy on a terrible team and decided to try something different...

But there is no evidence to suggest that any team would lose out by having him on the team. Former players have said he wouldn't affect locker room chemistry. Ticket sales are pretty much set in stone, ad revenue is set in stone. Fans who would get upset about his presence are probably not the fans spending money anyway.

The only explanation is that he is being punished for his cause itself.

[T-Bone]

What does that have to do with blackballing a league average QB from the league?

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In my opinion it boils down to two things. The league doesn't want to ever talk about tough social issues....and they don't want players to start acting out of the norm. This is similar to how many organizations will fight tooth and nail if a player wants a significant raise. The league wants to stifle any sort of individualistic behavior.

[T-Bone]

I don't know that any credible source has reported that that's the reason.

And even so, certainly he could start on a team like the Jets.

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I was citing Cian Fahey's analysis of Kaep, which I trust, when I was saying he's gotten better.

But I can address one criticism easy. Of course, he needs a 'specific offense' to succeed! All Quarterback's do! Brady doesn't succeed in a read-option offense any more than Newton succeeds in a pocket-read offense.

[T-Bone]

They don't. He was the 4th ranked QB last season in throws under 5 yards, 18th under 10...and 2nd best in interceptable balls, throwing just 2.11 such balls per 200 attempts to name a few.

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I'd say read these which highlights some other stats.

http://presnapreads.com/2017/07/30/coli ... oe-flacco/

http://presnapreads.com/2017/06/27/coli ... o-winning/

Yeah, Cian is high on Colin, and that might turn people off. But the stats he cites tells the story of at the very least a league average QB who has shown the ability to get better.

Kaep lost more completions to receiver error than any other player in the league. He was 8th best at not running into sacks, league average on intermediate throws. These aren't stats of a bad quarterback.

Maybe you don't like Cian's visual scouting, but you can't argue with things like these.

[T-Bone]

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... epCo00.htm

all the stats are down bro. i get your boy loves him, but all the numbers are down.

Hold on...you're citing things like....yards and accuracy? Because I'm citing stats that break that down. No QB lost more completions to receiver error than Kaep, for example.

[T-Bone]

LOL "I'm not reading anything that might show me that I am wrong"

Okay, we're done here.

[T-Bone]

He's an NFL Analyst. He's not just some guy. He writes for Football Outsiders, ESPN, etc. I respect that as an independent writer he isn't well known, but those in the world of sports journalism trusts him. I believe Football Outsiders is where he sources his material.

I listen to ESPN radio all day, so I take for granted how well known some people are.

[T-Bone]

Actually, the Eagles have Alshon Jeffery, who, if healthy, is a very good WR, and probably good enough to be a clear WR1.

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I didn't realize metrics would be so controversial. I'll never cite them again. Sheesh.

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Silly me. You see, I figure people who appear on ESPN would have been called out by now had they been pulling metrics out of thin air. Silly me for doing a thing like trusting major sports journalism!

I should have been looking at YARDS the entire time! The end all be all of statistics!

Silly me for trusting experts and sports journalists...I should just be listening to my friends at forum.mafiascum.net exclusively! They post major stats like YARDS!

[T-Bone]

Anyway, let's talk about how Kirk Cousins is the #3 QB in the league after last year.

I'm not a fan of the NFC East, but I guess I am most okay with the Skins succeeding out of that division.

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That's disappointing.

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Jets losses. 14 of them. They split with Buffalo and beat a team late in the season who is injured to hell.

[T-Bone]

Did you copy over a 2016 pre-season prediction???

[T-Bone]

Patriots wins. Jets management is trying to get the #1 seed, so in typical Jets fashion, that kinda disrespect is going to fuel the players to like 4-12 or 5-11 and like the third QB off the board instead, while I have the over/under for the Patriots win total at 13.5.

Oh gosh you're right, they are gonna fuck this up.

[T-Bone]

The Patriots will be fine...people just like to pretend that Alex Smith isn't a good quarterback, and so when he does good things it is obviously the fault of the other team.

[T-Bone]

I picked the Browns to win, shame they had to have a punt blocked, or they would have. I'm really impressed with Kizer.

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My favorite part of the afternoon was the Colts foregoing a touchdown to let their pathetic run game get stuffed at the line of scrimmage for 3 plays.

[T-Bone]

The Colts literally gave up a touchdown in that game. The Rams aren't good, the Colts are just worse.

Really, the people responsible for wasting Luck's years with a shitty team need to be fired. How you can have THAT quarterback on a rookie deal and are completely unable to put a competent team around him is beyond me.

[T-Bone]

Now he is, but he was carrying the roster from the get-go.

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The Colt's O-Line is merely a suggestion to slow down on the way to Luck.

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Isn't it nice when your football organization refuses to address the flaws that are obvious to everyone outside of the organization? I don't think Rodgers could succeed in the Giants huddle, let along Eli.

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I feel the same way about the Ravens. For whatever reason, the GM is allergic to skill position players.

[T-Bone]

Bench Eli for who though? Eli is an average QB, if he had more than half a second to throw the ball he'd be fine.

[T-Bone]

Eli was an above average QB in his prime, but his skill set has always been based on reading coverages pre-snap and throwing balls where only his receivers can get it. Now, thanks to his own natural decline in skill, and the fact that his O-Line can't give him enough time to do what he is best at this is the result you get.

[T-Bone]

around the one minute mark

The best part of that is the Jets. "The Jets don't play football....football just sort of happens to them."

[T-Bone]

Also, how about the atrocious timeout management on that second to last drive? How about the first down that was taken away for a bad pass interference call? Hoyer was the least of the problems at the end. He's not very good, but he was set-up to fail in this one.

[T-Bone]

Guys, relax. LUV doesn't know what it's like for your favorite team to be bad. The Pats have been dominant literally his entire life lol.

[T-Bone]

The owner will sell the team because he has failed. If I recall correctly, he moved because San Diego refused to subsidize a new stadium (that he can easily afford I'm sure). The data is out there now. There is no reason for a sports stadium to be subsidized by tax dollars, and we're seeing the fallout play out in real time for the Chargers. LA doesn't want them. They barely want the Rams. Now what?

[T-Bone]

I believe there is a ton of support for the Golden Knights. Sports teams have been kept out of Vegas because CASINOS LOL...not because there isn't fan demand.

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An increase in incidents...just because they are in Vegas?

What makes Vegas this magical place of sin compared to other major US cities? What is the honest difference that when people talk about putting a team in Vegas, they are worried that players are going to be tempted to break league rules or US laws?

Is it gambling? Because gambling is legal in many states...including states which house professional sports team. And certainly with the internet, if you're going to cheat or point shave, you can do it just as easily in Rapid City as you could in Vegas.

Is it prostitution? Because I promise you that players have access to it in any city.

It looks like to me this is a criticism/concern of putting a sports team in Vegas that makes no sense once you stop to think about what that actually means.

[T-Bone]

So...will the Giants give Eli the Peyton treatment at the end of the season??

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I think the Jags really will have two choices, (three, but Kaep blacklisting) but ultimately they will stay with Bortles if the Jags prop him up enough. As far as options, I guess Brissett is the only starting QB who will be on the market next season? (plus Hoyer probably) Although for some reason Buffalo hates Tyrod Taylor, so I can see him on the move. But as far as teams, we're just talking about the 49ers and Jets who will be searching for QBs. Every other team has an answer to that question. The teams who have starters who they should move on from (Giants, Ravens) will most likely draft someone, but stick with their guys until they retire.

[T-Bone]

Wow jets have 14 points against the patriots

FTFY

[T-Bone]

Hundley should get the start in Green Bay. He's been on the team for three years. He knows the playbook and presumably has a little bit of chemistry with the skill players. Even if Kaep is a better QB (which he is), knowing the playbook and chemistry with players is a HUGE advantage Hundley has over every other potential QB in the league. If GB were to bring anyone else to start, all they would be able to do is run basic plays.

Now you have to have a truly desperate situation to need Kaep (both starter and backup injured), because Kaep didn't go through camp, spring training, or the first 6 weeks of the season. He should have been on a roster from the get-go of course, but now I'm not sure he could help a team without some massive injuries to the position.

[T-Bone]

Well, we don't know that Hundley isn't a good QB like we know Tolizen is. (also Toilzen is like a million years old)

Also, did Brissett really play that well initially, or is he just riding the hype of *not* being Tolizen? He's gotten better as he's gotten more familiar with things sure.

[T-Bone]

What the fuck Cleveland?

I thought Kessler wasn't the starter because he was hurt. Was he on the roster the whole time? What the fuck? He was a halfway decent QB last year before he got hurt. Why wouldn't he get the first crack at the starting gig?

[T-Bone]

But Kessler is competent!

I think the Browns just do this to themselves on purpose.

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Also, they have never believed in Benjamin for some reason.

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Really though the 49ers have 10 shit players on offense, why do they think getting Jimmy G murdered is going to solve their problems?

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Hyperbole.

[T-Bone]

Some easy schedules down the stretch produce some potentially interesting results. Notably, the Falcons and Lions miss out with 9-7 and 10-6 records...and the Chargers make it to 9-7.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/machine ... 00951759~1

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This is what happens when you don't have time to play your position.

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Most QBs can't be Aaron Rodgers and prop up an entire failing organization like he has.

Most quarterbacks need talent around them to be successful. It doesn't make them bad quarterbacks it makes them...like every other football player because this is a team sport. Rodgers and Brady are the exceptions, not what we should expect.

Look at what happened to Jared Goff and Case Keenum this year. Now that they both have a supporting cast and a coaching staff that isn't a dumpster fire they are able to do their jobs. I think a quarterback having a work environment where they can do their jobs is a good thing. Just because Aaron Rodgers could take the Browns to a Conference Championship doesn't mean we should put that expectation on all quarterbacks. Look at Matt Stafford. When he has a supporting cast he is an exceptional talent. When he doesn't, his team is a 4-12 mess.

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Probably just a rush of people to hate on the Cowboys.

Maybe he should kneel during the Anthem.

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How can you really know the actual talent of a QB when he plays for the Browns? Kizer could be down right league average on another team...

[T-Bone]

Not everyone can be Aaron Rodgers and prop up a dismal organization. You're holding him to an impossibly high standard for no reason. He has no run support and a banged up Oline. Those things matter, and those things aren't his fault.

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Not to poo-poo your theory...but when Brees had a bad team he couldn't prop up the Saints...neither could Peyton, Wilson remains to be seen (I don't think the current Seahawks count as bad), the bad team in Indy has literally ruined Luck's health and career, and Brady has never had to prop up a terrible team.

As for Alex Smith, he's always been a fine QB and gets a bad rap. That's not a bad standard to aspire to.

Also, you literally talked him up in #1254.

[T-Bone]

Fuck this uninspiring playcalling garbage. The defense handed you a game you could have won by four touchdowns and all you are doing is calling the same three fucking plays over and over again. Run up the middle, screen pass that goes nowhere, shallow cross that goes nowhere.

[T-Bone]

No, I didn't say Peyton or Brees were ever bad quarterbacks. I'm saying that when they had bad teams around them they couldn't carry the team, and thus, you shouldn't expect Dak to do so either.

I was complaining about the Ravens. I love Harbargh, but he isn't coaching to win games, he is coaching to not lose them, and that's leading to the uninspiring garbage on offense. If not for heroic plays by the defense and the best kicker in the game, things would be a lot worse.

[T-Bone]

I'm not an Eli fan, but he's getting done dirty being benched for Geno.

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Spoiler: Way Too Early Hot Take

Eli starts in Denver Week 1, and the media gets to gush over Eli trying to duplicate the end of Peyton's career.

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Raven's D is good for 16 points by themselves. Defensive touchdown and then short field Tucker field goals. (after they run up the middle twice for no gain and fail to convert 3rd and long with a short screen)

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It's the right call be the Steelers suck.

There, I have ended the controversy in this thread.

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Scot, I'm a Ravens fan and root for any and all failures for the Steelers. There is no reason you need to take it personally.

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That's sexist.

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It was a mild reaction from both of us, and the only way you get better at these things is when your peers point them out.

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lol Browns.

Josh Rosen is threatening to stay in school if the Browns think they are gonna draft him.

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Maybe Rodgers is tired of the Packers hanging him out to dry every season and sabotaged the team so he could be released.

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Jimmy G and Watson have started about 6 games each, calm yourselves. RG3 was once rookie of the year.

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No definitely. But, if we make snap judgments at 6 games you get...RG3 as a Hall of Fame quarterback, and Jared Goff as JaMarcus Russell 2.0.

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I didn't see the game, as a Ravens fan who should I be angry at for pissing away a playoff spot?

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Oh okay, the thing I've been angry about for 4 seasons lol

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I don't see the Steelers suddenly getting over their strategy of playing down to their opponents. They will go one and done.

[T-Bone]

AFC

KC over TENN
JAX over BUF

JAX over PITT
NE over KC

NFC

LAR over ATL
NO over CAR

MIN over LAR
NO over PHI

NO over MIN

Saints over Patriots

Although I think Kansas City can still come out of the AFC. Don't really believe in the other four teams. (and in the case of Pitt, also don't want to believe)

[T-Bone]

No, they play down to the likes of the Browns, where they were a dropped pass away (twice!)...the Bears (who they lost to!)...and games that should otherwise be blowouts are competitive affairs to the end.

[T-Bone]

Also I hate the Steelers so I will take any and all opportunities to trash them, rational or not.

[T-Bone]

Now you're starting to get it.

[T-Bone]

Considering the Bills play Jacksonville this week, I would like to argue the notion that they will lose to New England by 25 next week.

[T-Bone]

The Jags just have to run on every play and they will win by 30.

[T-Bone]

I think they can beat the Steelers again too (but of course I live for the Steelers to lose)

[T-Bone]

MARIOTA TOUCHDOWN TO MARIOTA

[T-Bone]

The refs would have been murdered had the TD been erased.

[T-Bone]

We didn't ask the most important question about the Mariota-Mariota Touchdown.

Was it a catch?

O.O

O.O

[T-Bone]

The weather might tilt the Eagles and Minnesota games into the home team's favors. Silly dome away teams...

[T-Bone]

Eagles are actually the underdogs.

[T-Bone]

Most likely two unrelated incidents...but hey they are happening at the same time so...conspiracy!

[T-Bone]

As someone who lives in PA, I can tell you with 100% certainty that a Philly win would be the worst thing in the world.

[T-Bone]

It was the correct call. You don't overturn the referee if the play is close.

[T-Bone]

It was the correct call. You don't overturn the referee if the play is close.

There's definitive video evidence that shows you it's not a catch., It's precisely the type of play that should be over turned. Ball still moving, no control, foot steps out of bounds. It's textbook no catch.

Except that's not how the rules work. You need clear indisputable evidence to overturn the call on the field. That play was borderline, and when that happens, you defer to the call on the field.

[T-Bone]

He was tucking the ball under his arm anyway.

[T-Bone]

This is a terrible outcome for me, the Eagles fan base is especially obnoxious.

[T-Bone]

Pats was definitely my preferred outcome.

[T-Bone]

I didn't want the Eagles to win bud. Just like half the country.

[T-Bone]

They threw snowballs and ice at Santa Claus.

[T-Bone]

He's tough and athletic....and the perception that he isn't a threat to run is precisely why the trick play almost worked. No one was within 10 yards of him. Like, you couldn't run that play with Cam on the field.

[T-Bone]

Stop crying Brady haters, he's the best QB of all time.

#dealwithit

[T-Bone]

Yeah "cheater" lol

I get it. It is much easier to hate greatness than embrace it. Peyton had similar problems for the longest time. People hated how smug he was, despite accomplishing very little (this was mid-career, when he was physically one of the best, but wasn't winning titles).

But sorry, he's the best. You don't have to like him. Just gotta live with it.

[T-Bone]

I'm claiming the guy with 5 Championships and a whole host of NFL records and accolades is the greatest...and I'm misguided and need to "accept the truth"? What? That doesn't make sense.

If you want to dispute his character, fine. You cannot dispute the awards, records, and accolades. Those are NOT open to interpretation or moral judgment.

[T-Bone]

If stats are meaningless...than why play the game in the first place? "Stats are meaningless" is code for "I don't have a sound football argument".

Make the argument that he is a bad person, fine. Don't embarrass yourself by arguing he's not a good football player.

[T-Bone]

There is no evidence that he has cheated...and thinking that any sort of cheating could lead to the career he has had is stupid. It shows me you really don't understand football. You just don't like him for whatever reason. And that's fine. Hate him off the field. On the field, he's the best QB to ever play.

[T-Bone]

I didn't like Peyton much when he played, but as the nationwide guy I find him hilarious.

[T-Bone]

Is he doing steroids? Because that is about the only form of cheating he could do that you could maybe explain anyway his success on the field, like people do with McGuire and Bonds in Baseball.

If you're gonna tell me he deflated his way to success GTFO of here.

[T-Bone]

lol

[T-Bone]

In the NFL Football thread...Tom Brady, one of the most decorated Quarterbacks of all time, if not the best all time, who was just in the Super Bowl....is worth talking about.

You know, cause this thread is about NFL Football.

[T-Bone]

[T-Bone]

This is why you all should have rooted for the Patriots. For shame.

[T-Bone]

Kizer was robbed

[T-Bone]

I still don't understand why the Browns gave up on Kesler either...he looked like the most competent draft pick the Browns have had in over a decade at that position before the injury bug nabbed him.

Drafting a rookie QB, even the best in the class, doesn't really do much for the Browns since they have a shitty team around him. They should build around Taylor/Kesler/another vet...because if they can't get the rest of the team in order, they will just ruin the career of Rosen or Allen or whoever they take. At least in the case of Taylor, he has a few years of competent play at the position.