Open 674: Duck Duck Goose [Game Over]

[Creature]

How many votes hapahauli is at?

[Rels]

There are two reasons Hapa is scum. They come down to the fact that Hapa is a wonderful town player and a lackluster scum player. A few years back on TL Hapa was considered one of the best own around, and it is because he KNOWS how to see motives behind post. He sees logic thought process and illogical one.

This game, he has not shown that. He has been bland. Asking questions. Defending himself. All of it is bland, nothing is smart. That is why he's scum.

Furthermore, but only rayn can assest to that; last game the same thing kinda happened. For 24 hours Hapa was bland, and I pressured him. He woke up and showed two things : smart posts on one end, and genuine frustration feelings on the other. He was feeling bad at the fact that he was playing bad and that he was being scumlread. THere, after rayn, I and others pressured him, nothing of that.

So he's scum. The plus side is that if he's not scum he will wake up like the town god he is.

[Rels]

How many votes hapahauli is at?

I'm the only one I think atm

[Rels]

Creature seems super town because he's posting all the time. When he's being townread by people with influence in the thread. He doesn't like being play, source : his wiki and his scum games. Here we have a mix of some I-dont-care-what-you-think posts and good activity.
MAYBE he's tryharding. We'll see if he drops off. But he seems super town.

[Creature]

VOTE: hapahauli

[Hawk]

I'm not usually convinced by Meta posts and reasonings mostly because I think Meta isn't Alignment indicative. But it might also be my inexperience on forum Mafia so I don't go digging super hard on past games.

Moogin are you gonna give your read on Rels especially since Rels came in with some very nice aggressive scumhunting here? Can you give a read on Hapa as well while your at it since you said you didn't understand why people thought Hapa was scummy?

Hapa's on VLA I guess still so I'll wait until he at least comes back before dropping a 3rd vote on his wagon.

[Rels]

Kops's filter is horrible too.

1. Most of it is useless stuff.

But not the townie kind of useless stuff. Not the "I-dont-care-about-others" posts. No, useless-but-still-trying-to-look-useful kind.

Hey Rels, when you're around, let me know what you think of the MooginSoosy post.

What do you think of that post?

Useless question that have no follow up.

This is MafiaScum. Vote away. If you're not voting, you'll likely be viewed as hesitant scum.

I don't care. I vote when i actually am fairly certain someone is scum. If people wanna paint it as hesitant scum then they do. ^^
I see votes as "i am trying to lynch this person i think is mafia", not as "i voted for random person" or "reaction test" or whatever... It just is confusing imo. Keep it simple, that's what i like to do regarding votes. I believe that way scum have no outs from their votes, as if you vote you only vote for one reason and one reason only and you can never say "well i actually didn't think that guy was scum after all at the time".

There are no certainties of who is scum unless we have guilty or a scum claim. Votes on a wagon of someone you suspect gets far more answers than just sitting on your hands until you find someone who's willing, to put there hands up and say "hey I'm scum." Or even starting up a voting process on one of your top suspects.

Look at that buddying.

I don't really like giant walls because scum sometimes use that to scare off potential suspects.

Not being able to read someone simply because they are hard to read doest make them scum.

2. His ONE scumread is bad, he's not voting him, he's not pressuring him.

This one:

Fitz looks townie to me. This scares me, because I townread him for playing exactly the same last game. He was scum.

Also, there's nobody here who isn't a plausible wagonee, so literally any vote could be seen that way.

If you're referring to my jumpy voting, I do that at the beginning of every game. I can provide references if you wish. I find it helpful to know how people respond when I vote for them.

Pedit: Okay, then. That's been the case in the past sometimes, now that I think about it. He'll need to get involved soon to avoid the prod anyway.

VOTE: havingfitz

Your vote doesn't make any sense. Why would you say he looks townie, but then vote for him a few posts after. I understand you said that he was like that in the previous game but turned out to be scum, so you have paranoia that it could be another turn out like that, but is that the only reason your suspecting him?

Because in reality, your vote doesn't have a case or is backed up with any questions towards fitz to answer too. It feels to me that you were questioned about your previous vote on a needless slot right now, to someone that could appear needing pressure. And that is backed up by you asking Aubrey for her thoughts on Fitz, as if your trying to push Aubrey into Fitz direction.

First, this reasonning doesn't make anyone scum. Town are way more likely to flip flop their read on someone than scum. The inquisitive tone in the last paragraph is also not in phase with Kop's actions: he's not voting doom, he's not talking to him even though he's STILL HERE when doom comes back.
This post is after he explained why he scumread doom; after he agreed with Aubrey that doom was scummy; and after doom came back to the thread. But he doesn't do anything with him and leave the thread.

--

Yeah. Probably scum.

[Rels]

I have a hard time deciding on Moongin. I see conflicting things

[Rels]

On the minus side she had a a pretty bad re-entrance to the thread. She even acknolodged it herself, but acknowledging it doesn't make it any less scummier. She declared three tentative townreads on OOO (rayn in the above posts, sorry, will try to call him OOO) Creature on I, all of 3 we townread each other, probably some easy reads to copy for a scum when reading the thread and thinking about how to blend in.
Then she has to be forced to give a scumread, and it's lackluster.

On the plus side, after that she shows some change on these townreads. Like she does'tn know what to do. it feels town.

On another minus side she's focusing a LOT of these 4 players: doom OOO creature and I. Like she's kinda ignoring what's happening on the side. And it's a scum trait usually.

[Rels]

I'm becoming tired quickly

[Rels]

I really dislike that fitz left after making a big catch up post. Even though I don't think the catch up is scummy in itself. But making a big post when being suspected then GTFOing is more likely coming from scum than town I think. But he has his IRL excuse.
I'm intersted to see what he brings when he coems back.
(BTW fitz I saw you had questions for me in this big post. Ask them again if they are still relevent when you coma back)

[Rels]

The posts are literally next to each other... You are saying you just randomly decided to stop reading further at that point? If i am completely honest, FECambell, i'd like to have you actually reach to some conclusions because you aren't really giving us anything right now.

I mean like:
You have already commented things that have happened way after those posts you just were concerned about. How does it make any sense that you didn't care about them the first time you read it or are you reading the thread backwards or something?

Within 24 hours there were 5 pages. The activity is good, but that means I could spend forever reading past posts.

Yeah OOO is 100% right. Fredrik asking that:

I've always wondered why people actually pick the people they do vote at the start of the game. I don't actually believe anyone ever goes to random.org or rolls a dice or something like that.

The illusion of non-randomness must be present for an RVS vote to be of any use. Also, how should I abbreviate your name? Does OOO work?

Hey Rels, when you're around, let me know what you think of the MooginSoosy post.

You know Rels, then, even though this is the first game you've posted in? Are you an alt?
The MooginSoosy post is pretty obviously not serious, so this post inclines me to think outoforder is overeager town if newbie. If alt, maybe not.

Hey Rels, when you're around, let me know what you think of the MooginSoosy post.

Why aren't you asking me about it?

VOTE: outoforder

So you know outoforder, too?

Aubrey's giving the most scum impression so far.

From my experience, that means she's probably town.

Hey Rels, when you're around, let me know what you think of the MooginSoosy post.

Why aren't you asking me about it?

VOTE: outoforder

Because i don't feel like i need to ask you about it. From what i remember playing with you you will make your alignment clear to me before D1 ends even if i didn't prod you in any way. There is also a Rels-specific reason i am not willing to discuss yet.

But while you're at it, care to elaborate on this; This is what i believe to be a fact. You don't tend to participate in RVS / pressure vote shennies at D1 start, especailly towards a player you MUST know to not respond to being "pressured" by giving away his alignment as mafia. I mean like if i was scum i couldn't care less that there are people voting for me over absolutely nothing. You know that aswell so the only conclusions i can come to are that either (1) you actually think i am mafia, or (2) you are mafia.

So why do you think i am mafia? You really couldn't think i could possibly have - at this point of the game - a specific question to a specific player that i would not feel the need to ask you aswell, just because i have played with both of you before? In case there is option (3) aswell, feel free to tell me what that is.

Yup, that's an alt.

VOTE: outoforder

Never mind, sorry. Aubrey's a guy. I assumed Aubrey was a girl because I've only heard the name as a girl's name.

UNVOTE:

What is your logic for unvoting?

When the answer is literally in the NEXT post after the last one he quoted. Not the next post in the ISO; the next post in the thread:

Wow. I didn't notice how close that was to lynch.

OOO is now at L-3.

Then he's replacing after being pressured on that point. Not saying mental stress is faked, BTW sorry bro hope you'll be OK. But playing scum is definitely more stresful than town. Especially when you make a blunder like that.
This slot is looking scum too.

[Rels]

BTW I love that in this forum the quoted posts have links you can click to go to the page they were posted.

[Rels]

OK I'm going to sleep. See you later boys and girls (=

[Hawk]

@Mod V/LA till Wednesday Sometime?

[Hawk]

@Mod V/LA till Wednesday Sometime?

Forgot to bold it the first time.

[outoforder]

Hapahauli is basically playing below his level. He is not being as smart as he is supposed to be and his scumgame is wel.... quite bad.

Does this look like his scum game from previous times you've played with him?

Not really because last time he tried to make a super bullshit case on me and has probably learned from it. The point that when he is town he looks super duper town and makes really smart posts and is not doing it here still stands.

[Aubrey]

From the general consensus, it seems we're narrowing down scum to likely being in the lower end of posting / activity. I seriously wouldn't be shocked if one (if not two) are fooling us by playing in an aggressive/active manner.

[Aubrey]

Personally, I'd just put Fred back to a null position and pretend he hasnt posted at all. Calling it scummy for him to replace out, due to not being in a good headspace, is something I find in bad taste and poor scum hunting. People can be going through a shit time, and make shitty posts. Be somewhat reasonable here, and fair, to the person coming into the slot.

[outoforder]

From the general consensus, it seems we're narrowing down scum to likely being in the lower end of posting / activity. I seriously wouldn't be shocked if one (if not two) are fooling us by playing in an aggressive/active manner.

At least i am narrowing scum down to who i think are scum. I don't care if they are lurkers or whatever. I don't care if people are V/LA or not, because that doesn't mean anything to their alignment and definitely is not a reason not to scumread anyone if you have a legitmate reason to do that. I find it super dumb to say you cannot scumread someone because they are not here (i know you're not really saying that, but i know that's what a lot of people seem to think here). I think scum are fitz, hapa, and Frederick. Everyone else looks more or less town to me. Fortunately fitz and hapa will be back in a day or so and Frederick will get replaced so they should be all posting soon.

Feel free to pressure doomfeathers or Kop though. I don't feel the need to defend them at this point even though i don't share people's scumreads on them. We've got more than a week left in the day phase so there is no hurry. Maybe i am wrong and you'll get something out of them. But i don't also feel the need to "pressure" my townreads over something i don't even believe in. That seems just dumb to me.

[Aubrey]

Can you specify why you think they are town? Because if you have read through you'd have at least a few scum reads along with your town. It shouldn't take someone to prod you to find out where you are in terms of who you suspect.

Actually, I changed my mind on this. I think OoO might be town but I need them to make more concise posts because holy crap that giant wall? Why. Just why. I feel like rels might be piggybacking off OoO and relying on the fact that they know each other on another forum. Creature is a mystery to me still

I can't get this post out of my mind. I've already alluded to it. I think Moogin is town here. To give a town-read on OOO, and then retract the town read to a maybe, signifies to me that they are in a funky headspace (a headspace town usually is in) while trying to decipher who is town and scum to them. Of course now that I've said this I won't consider this as much should anybody else do it.

Welcome to the town lean of Aubrey Moogin. WHOO WHOO! Please keep hands and feet in the lean at all times. Failure to comply to the rules written in invisible ink will cause immediately scrutiny, distrust, and whose case scenario banishment. Enjoy your stay!

[Aubrey]

From the general consensus, it seems we're narrowing down scum to likely being in the lower end of posting / activity. I seriously wouldn't be shocked if one (if not two) are fooling us by playing in an aggressive/active manner.

At least i am narrowing scum down to who i think are scum. I don't care if they are lurkers or whatever. I don't care if people are V/LA or not, because that doesn't mean anything to their alignment and definitely is not a reason not to scumread anyone if you have a legitmate reason to do that. I find it super dumb to say you cannot scumread someone because they are not here (i know you're not really saying that, but i know that's what a lot of people seem to think here). I think scum are fitz, hapa, and Frederick. Everyone else looks more or less town to me. Fortunately fitz and hapa will be back in a day or so and Frederick will get replaced so they should be all posting soon.

Feel free to pressure doomfeathers or Kop though. I don't feel the need to defend them at this point even though i don't share people's scumreads on them. We've got more than a week left in the day phase so there is no hurry. Maybe i am wrong and you'll get something out of them. But i don't also feel the need to "pressure" my townreads over something i don't even believe in. That seems just dumb to me.

I'm not saying one should not suspect low activity players. If anything I'm just imploring caution to creating too strong of a town block that could turn into becoming blind later on. Also I doubt all the scum are just hiding back at this point. In fact, I find it very unlikely. aka: look at your scum list, and keep your reads open. I wish I could go into detail about what I think you are missing, but by doing so I would only tip off scum more than likely.

Moving on

I know your going to complain when I ask this, but why are you scum reading Frederick again? Because if memory serves me correctly, it was due to him missing content or something before posting? If he is going through a shitty time, it is understandable to think that maybe he isn't putting his all into the game, or is heavily distracted due to the shit. Hence the replace out. He seriously should be put back to a null position in your reads vs. scum read if that is the case. For example: If he lost his job, going through a rough patch with family, has depression issues, school is kicking his ass, etc. it is understandable for lousy town or scum play.

[Rels]

I know your going to complain when I ask this, but why are you scum reading Frederick again? Because if memory serves me correctly, it was due to him missing content or something before posting? If he is going through a shitty time, it is understandable to think that maybe he isn't putting his all into the game, or is heavily distracted due to the shit. Hence the replace out. He seriously should be put back to a null position in your reads vs. scum read if that is the case. For example: If he lost his job, going through a rough patch with family, has depression issues, school is kicking his ass, etc. it is understandable for lousy town or scum play.

First, I disagree that we should null read Fred because he feels bad and is replacing out. It might be the best fair way to treat his slot, but the game is about finding scum, so I'll use any information available.
What Fred did was:
1. don't do anything for several days, excuse: he was busy preparing his Dad's birthday. No problem there.
2. his first meaningful post is asking about something that happens post 36. BUT the answer is in post 37.
3. OOO calls him out on that
4. he gives an excuse that don't mean anything, then replaces out

2 things.
First, step 2 is scummy. He looks like scum that KNOWS he needs to start becoming active to not get lynched at some point. And the best way to look active is to ask pointless question that looks good. The problem is that this question don't try to push the game forward. It's a indicator of him being scum. In addition, the answer was LITERALLY in the next post. It shows that Frederick cared more about appearing active than solving the game.

Second, step 4 is scummy. That might be not fair. But Frederick made a blunder; got pressured by OOO; and replaced out. He didn't replace out of nowhere; he replaced specifically after being pressured. More likely coming from scum than town.

--

Now it is not slam dunk scum. It's still D1. It's possible he's town and played badly. But it's more likely he's scum.

[havingfitz]

mod...I will be v/LA from now until Tuesday morning.

Back. Will catch up asap.

[Rels]

mod...I will be v/LA from now until Tuesday morning.

Back. Will catch up asap.

Dat hype