In post 222, Cerberus v666 wrote:FA, I'm talking about my position and actions here. Since the status quo is to let the players decide, and I think it should he different, not doing anything besides complaining here is ineffectual. What is actually effective is running games with those expectations, and running them well, so that way the prevailing standard changes.
I explained why giving them a period to architect and censor whatever they like is good
why its bad - sell the idea to me
I'm sure that I'm not biased about this and I like to mod my games in the best way
No, that's fine. I understand why you'd want to do it. But what do you do when every member of the pt says "I want everything I said censored from the pt".
I can understand a certain level of discretion, out of courtesy, but if they want you to remove game related things, I don't think that's okay. Even if those things are potentially hurtful, like "Let's leave x and x alive because they're fucking stupid".
I could see allowing editing of the previous statement to be couched in less offensive terms, but not the wholesale removal of the statement/the gist of the reason.
either I will convince the mafia - its fine to let others see that or I will tell town there is nothing there to be seen beside unnneccessory drama and toxicity and its not really - what you ant to see to understand the game.
why exactly do we care what the hell people are saying to their hydra mates
Routine day with a dirt cheap brush
Then a week goes by and it goes untouched
Then two, then three, then a month
Then the rest of your life, you beat yourself up
I pretty strongly believe hydras should not be mod-forced to use a provided "hydra PT" that the mod has control over; as a mod I will provide one if two people who are hydra'ing request one, but by no means do I force them to use it and by no means do I feel such PTs should be obligated to be released unless the members of the hydra say they want it released.
if you're hydra'ing with someone, you're in one slot and you two can control it however the hell you want, end of story.
Routine day with a dirt cheap brush
Then a week goes by and it goes untouched
Then two, then three, then a month
Then the rest of your life, you beat yourself up
Insisting on hydra conversations being public is like insisting someone write down their every thought while not playing as a hydra
Who gives a good god damn if a player shit talks another to their hydra partner? People have been shit talking other players in private since before there were hydras.
In post 230, pieguyn wrote:I pretty strongly believe hydras should not be mod-forced to use a provided "hydra PT" that the mod has control over; as a mod I will provide one if two people who are hydra'ing request one, but by no means do I force them to use it and by no means do I feel such PTs should be obligated to be released unless the members of the hydra say they want it released.
if you're hydra'ing with someone, you're in one slot and you two can control it however the hell you want, end of story.
If I'm the game mod, I can decide to let a hydra in or not and decide the parameters of that hydra. If you want to be a hydra in my game, play by my rules. End of story.
In post 230, pieguyn wrote:I pretty strongly believe hydras should not be mod-forced to use a provided "hydra PT" that the mod has control over; as a mod I will provide one if two people who are hydra'ing request one, but by no means do I force them to use it and by no means do I feel such PTs should be obligated to be released unless the members of the hydra say they want it released.
if you're hydra'ing with someone, you're in one slot and you two can control it however the hell you want, end of story.
If I'm the game mod, I can decide to let a hydra in or not and decide the parameters of that hydra. If you want to be a hydra in my game, play by my rules. End of story.
And as long as it's made clear at the start before the game, there shouldn't be an issue. A moderator can set the terms of his or her game, and the player is free to opt out of the game or comply.
The hydra pt thing is, well, a sideshow. A distraction. The IMPORTANT thing here is the discussion about scum pts. Hydra pts just came up because people want to pretend they're exactly the same, then use the reasons why hydra pts are different to defend not releasing scum pts.
I mean, obviously mods have the right over the implementation of hydras in their games, but that's my POV on it and I've never felt any need to be more strict over it in games I run.
p-edit: also, what kuribo said. as a player I do not mind it but I can easily empathize with those who would.
And honestly I'm on the side of releasing scum PTs. And the games I mod (at least the ones where I'm not a part of a modding hydra) come with the expectation that it will one day be public.
It's not like you're using some super secret strategy that no one will ever see: next time you play together, your scum buddy could just as easily say "oh the PT was closed but when we were scum together he said..."
If your scum strategy is so fragile that you can't have the PT publicized, then it's a shit strategy and you should evaluate it. If your scum PT involves you shit talking, then why are you so worried about it being publicized? Your scum buddy could just as easily say "oh yeah Kuribo said you're an ugly turd." If it's because you were arguing with your scum buddy and things got out of hand, hey I get it. I been there. But suck it up and man up to the shit you did to alienate your teammate. Or show the world what a dick they were. Whichever.
If you don't want the things you say in a scum PT publicized, you shouldn't be saying them to some rando that happens to share your alignment in this one game.
In post 228, TheButtonmen wrote:why exactly do we care what the hell people are saying to their
hydra
scum mates
Routine day with a dirt cheap brush
Then a week goes by and it goes untouched
Then two, then three, then a month
Then the rest of your life, you beat yourself up
In post 242, kuribo wrote:
If your scum strategy is so fragile that you can't have the PT publicized, then it's a shit strategy and you should evaluate it.
Routine day with a dirt cheap brush
Then a week goes by and it goes untouched
Then two, then three, then a month
Then the rest of your life, you beat yourself up
The argument in favor that I have is that it helps give context to the game as a whole. You can better understand exactly what happened and why. This is the same for say, why reveal what roles existed in the game. Or night actions.
In post 246, chamber wrote:The argument in favor that I have is that it helps give context to the game as a whole. You can better understand exactly what happened and why. This is the same for say, why reveal what roles existed in the game. Or night actions.
In post 230, pieguyn wrote:I pretty strongly believe hydras should not be mod-forced to use a provided "hydra PT" that the mod has control over; as a mod I will provide one if two people who are hydra'ing request one, but by no means do I force them to use it and by no means do I feel such PTs should be obligated to be released unless the members of the hydra say they want it released.
if you're hydra'ing with someone, you're in one slot and you two can control it however the hell you want, end of story.
If I'm the game mod, I can decide to let a hydra in or not and decide the parameters of that hydra. If you want to be a hydra in my game, play by my rules. End of story.
If I'm the game mod, I can theoretically also decide to only count votes that are italicized and not count votes in the vote tags. But it may not be a good idea to do so. We are discussing whether it's a good idea to release scum PTs/hydra PTs and/or force hydra/scum mates to use them.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
