Mafia 73: NEGWLTWWWTKY - Abandoned!

[Setael]

Why do you play mafia, Quag, if you hate it so much?

[hasdgfas]

Who besides Peers?
MoS is the only one that I feel quite happy about saying is scum.

Besides him, the ones that I'm leaning scum on are Panzer, schis, and kscope. I thought Quag was town and the reasons for voting him were idiotic, but TS pointed out that Quag revealing that he hadn't read his role PM when he did was completely unnecessary, and I've been looking more closely at him. I'm not nearly as confident in him being town as I was before. I think he's possible, but slightly more unlikely than some of the others.

[Quagmire]

Why do you play mafia, Quag, if you hate it so much?

I don't. I hate this game.

[Albert B. Rampage]

lol then why are you staying ?

[Quagmire]

lol then why are you staying ?

Because I don't flake or do dumbass things, like you tend to do.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Oh wow. You think that it is more ethical to stay in a game than request replacement ?

[Yosarian2]

]
Interesting. No matter how Quagmire comes up, you'll be smelling like roses?

No, actually, no matter what Quagmire comes up, it'll end up being an excuse for people to attack me, I can almost guarentee it. That's what happens whenever anyone does anythng that could be vaugly interpreted as "changing their minds"; they end up getting attacked by someone because of it either way. But I don't really give a crap, I'm just going to do what I think is best for the town and not worry about how it looks.

(1) If Quagmire comes up town, you're hoping I'm going to look bad, because, in your scumpinion, you think that I'm pushing his lynch irrationally.

If Quagmire comes up town, then yes, you look bad. Deal with it.

(2) If Quagmire comes up scum, MoS and hasdagas are going to look bad because they opposed your pressure to get Quagmire to read his PM? Ain't that a blast... Because MoS, hasdagas, and YOU (which you conveniently forgot to mention) are the three players that defended Quagmire tooth and nail!

(shrug) If he is scum, I'm sure you'll try to make that case. Good luck with that. I'm just going to be over here, continuing to try to figure out who the scum are.

(1) If Quagmire comes up town, MoS and hasdagas and YOU are going to look bad because you three defended him irrationally, since he is, best case scenario, and I think we have a concensus on this, a totally worthless player. That means that you old scumbags all knew he was town.

I don't think anything I've said about Quagmire has been irrational, either when I've attacked him or when I defended him or if I end up lynching him at the end of the day.

(2) If Quagmire comes up scum, actually... it's going to look like I not only bus'ed him, but tied in up to railway sleepers in front of an oncoming train.

Actually, if Quagmire come up scum, you would come out looking pretty pro-town to me. Your attacks on Quagmire don't really look like bussing to me; they're a bit too convincingly angry for that, heh.

[Yosarian2]

I didn't say that you said "quagmire not reading his PM is a pro-town action"

Um...you didn't?

I don't see any reason why someone would regard not reading one's role PM as a pro-town action...

Yosarian did the same thing

Did I miss something here?

[Albert B. Rampage]

How many votes on me is that?

I'm counting 4 votes for you, and 4 votes for Quagmire.

Phew! I thought we were close to lynching someone... god forbid! It's too soon... only 43 pages!

Take another look at that other place you compared us to.

[IH]

Yos quoted it TS.

I'm finding it hard to get back into reading >.<; Semester started today.

[schismatized]

lets draw straws.

[Toaster Strudel]

Since you're in a mind to speculate, why do you think the name of the game is NEGWLTWWWTKY?

.... Mod fell asleep on his keyboard while naming the game?

Think harder.

(1) If Quagmire comes up town, you're hoping I'm going to look bad, because, in your scumpinion, you think that I'm pushing his lynch irrationally.

If Quagmire comes up town, then yes, you look bad. Deal with it.

That's a risk I'm willing to take.

Why do you play mafia, Quag, if you hate it so much?

I don't. I hate this game.

How about, instead of a lynch, we euthanize Quagmire? Let's be merciful and put him out of his misery.

Lethal Injection: Quagmire

[IH]

TS, please summarize a case on why quag is scum, including quotes or at least post numbers for evidence.

[Toaster Strudel]

TS, please summarize a case on why quag is scum, including quotes or at least post numbers for evidence.

Sure!

My experience in this game is that people that give the town a hard time about claiming are almost always scum.

[...]he was careful not to link himself to other players beyond policy-voting me, following MoS and trying to intimidate Bookitty a little [...]

Look at how he wasted 30+ pages policy voting, didn't claim earlier at lynch -1, refused to answer questions even from his friend Yosarian, stubbornly refused to cooperate, try to find scum, and actually play the game in a manner that HELPS the town. He only recently switched his vote from me to Bookitty to intimidate her, in my opinion, because Bookitty was using her brain, and Quagmire wets his bed every time he has to deal with a player that is able to think.

Nine excellent reasons to lynch Quagmire:

(1) Jerked town around about role PM business.
(2) Needed to be at lynch minus 1 to allegedly read it.
(3) Has done absolutely nothing pro-town.
(4) Sabotaged all attempts for us to evaluate his alignment.
(5) His current strategy is to make sure he cannot be linked to any other player but one.
(6) Stubbornly policy voting a single player while denying it.
(7) Categorically refuses to answer questions - even from Yosarian who defended him earlier.
(8) This lynch will be informative of the alignment of the players that defended him, ie Yosarian, MoS and hasdfas.

(9) To completely refuse to involve oneself in the game in any capacity beyond a wholly useless policy vote, is thoroughly scummy.

That's the kind of thing a mafiosi might do in order not to compromise his buddies and leave no hints leading to them.

unvote, vote: Quagmire

- not for pressure, but for lynching.

I submit this quote as evidence that Quagmire is continuing to policy lynch or is at the very least completely blindsided:

Although I would like to add that I'm glad you're leaving. I hope you leave the site for good.

I submit this quote as evidence that Quagmire continues to refuse to participate, after alledgedly reading his role PM:

I'm not going to claim anytime soon. This conversation is worthless. Stop trying to "lead discussion" somewhere, because it's not going to go anywhere. I'm not going to claim anytime soon. This conversation is worthless. Stop trying to "lead discussion" somewhere, because it's not going to go anywhere. [...] Lynching me would be stupid. I'm on the town's side. Toaster Strudel is mafia, from what I've gathered. That's all that I'm going to say.

I feel like I should be saying something right now because the discussion is on me. However, I'll refrain unless people have any specific questions into my behavior becaues this argument is between Yos2 and TS.

I refuse to do anything that you request me to do [...]

Nothing else is worth talking about at the moment. Nobody else has come up with a convincing argument to sway me and nothing's made me change my mind about what I think. So, until then, I have nothing additional to say.[...]Otherwise, you're just going to hear me say, "I don't have anything to say," if everyone continues trying to badger me about my thoughts on every single person in the game.

Paradoxically, Quagmire berates schismatized for non-contribution:

The burden of proof lies with the person making the assertion.

yeah but in a game with so little proof is this still relevant?

Start contributing please

[Toaster Strudel]

Why do you play mafia, Quag, if you hate it so much?

I don't

. I hate this game.

Bizarrely, he's admitting that he IS NOT PLAYING the game. When he says "I hate this game" I can't help but think he doesn't like to be caught scum.

This is his defense:

Neither of these two are evidence that I'm not playing the game. In fact,

the latter is evidence that I am playing the game

, because it says that I don't need to talk until I have something to say. Which, if you'll note, I do talk. I do have things to say.

So he's admitted he's not playing the game, but then he's saying his behavior is evidence that he's actually playing the game.

He's jerking us around.

[Toaster Strudel]

And... he has no defense. This is it, basically:

The problem is, I'm apathetic to mafia now more than ever so I find no desire to allocate my resources in actually playing the game. Some of you are the worst mafia players in the world. I hate this game. I'm not even going to respond to this one. It's just too retarded [...] I don't want to answer stupid questions that other people bring up just so they can "evaluate my alignment [...] This game is really frustrating me. I'm really tempted to pull a Shea and just flake out because I'm mad. Sorry, but...are you stupid?

hahahahahaha too bad i'm town!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

^^^^^
Quagmire quotes assembled for comedic effect.

[Quagmire]

Why do you play mafia, Quag, if you hate it so much?

I don't

. I hate this game.

Bizarrely, he's admitting that he IS NOT PLAYING the game. When he says "I hate this game" I can't help but think he doesn't like to be caught scum.

This is his defense:

Neither of these two are evidence that I'm not playing the game. In fact,

the latter is evidence that I am playing the game

, because it says that I don't need to talk until I have something to say. Which, if you'll note, I do talk. I do have things to say.

So he's admitted he's not playing the game, but then he's saying his behavior is evidence that he's actually playing the game.

He's jerking us around.

i just retaliated to your "evidence" you moron

[Quagmire]

Oh wow. You think that it is more ethical to stay in a game than request replacement ?

Yes. I'd be doing a disservice to the moderator if I decided to flake out of a game because it was frustrating me.

I will claim my role -- I don't want to at all, but I will -- no earlier than 5 days before the deadline. I highly suggest that we lynch Bookitty instead.

[Quagmire]

Still reading the thread (sorry I fell behind). I'm at p. 24 and if no one has requested this yet, I'd like Quagmire to link a game in which he did not look at his role pm on day 1 and ended up being town.

The only other time I've ever announced it in the thread, I've been scum. However, I will give you two finished games where I did not read my role PM until night one and have been town:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3927
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3737

[Setael]

Thanks for linking those. As I've said, I believe that you didn't read your role. I'm still not sure what you discovered when you finally read it, but I'm leaning town on you.

Do you have any other reasons to suspect Bookitty that you haven't shared? I for one, think your case that she should've accused you instead of hasdf is utter crap and I very much agree that hasdf looked scummy for defending your anti-town play the way he did. But it made it look like he KNOWS you're town, so it would make sense to accuse him and not you, see? So, setting that aside - any other reason to suspect Bookitty?

Yos, what do you think of the case on hasdfgas?

schismatized, why aren't you participating? Care to give a scum list?

[Toaster Strudel]

I'd just like to list the players that have defended Quagmire:

YagamiLight, MoS, Peers, Yosarian2, and hasdagas

[Quagmire]

Thanks for linking those. As I've said, I believe that you didn't read your role. I'm still not sure what you discovered when you finally read it, but I'm leaning town on you.

Do you have any other reasons to suspect Bookitty that you haven't shared? I for one, think your case that she should've accused you instead of hasdf is utter crap and I very much agree that hasdf looked scummy for defending your anti-town play the way he did. But it made it look like he KNOWS you're town, so it would make sense to accuse him and not you, see? So, setting that aside - any other reason to suspect Bookitty?

Think, for a minute, that you're Bookitty. You just replaced into a game where you replaced a lurker that nobody paid attention to. You see that there is a wagon on Quagmire, which has the town pretty much split in half in terms of who's on it and who's off.

Let's think now that you're Bookitty and you're scum. Again, just hypothetically -- I'm not assuming anything. What should you do? You might get persecuted if you're on one side and you end up being wrong -- especially if you just waltz into the game and bandwagon somebody and shut up. That's a risk that I know as scum I wouldn't be willing to take.

What should you do, now? Trying to pin myself into that scenario, I'd try and craft a case on somebody else so that I don't have to take a side and it still looks like I'm participating genuinely. I wouldn't be brainlessly on one side, where I could be totally off-base and persecuted for it and yet still not aloof. There was a murmur or two about ashdfahg before Bookitty posted, but let's be honest -- the discussion was focused on whether or not I'm scum or lying or not or whatever.

That could be reaching a bit. But when you consider that she should have persecuted me for everything -- because if you consider her logic and reasons, she should have attacked me for exactly what she attacked hasdfhag for (that's what my post was about). The fact that she went for someone who wasn't me in this case screams out to me that she's scum. That's my case, and sorry if I didn't state it well enough earlier.

[Quagmire]

Why do you play mafia, Quag, if you hate it so much?

I'm not joining any more games anymore. I'm taking a break for awhile once the games that I'm in finish.

[Bookitty]

Think, for a minute, that you're Bookitty. You just replaced into a game where you replaced a lurker that nobody paid attention to. You see that there is a wagon on Quagmire, which has the town pretty much split in half in terms of who's on it and who's off.

Let's think now that you're Bookitty and you're scum. Again, just hypothetically -- I'm not assuming anything. What should you do? You might get persecuted if you're on one side and you end up being wrong -- especially if you just waltz into the game and bandwagon somebody and shut up. That's a risk that I know as scum I wouldn't be willing to take.

What should you do, now? Trying to pin myself into that scenario, I'd try and craft a case on somebody else so that I don't have to take a side and it still looks like I'm participating genuinely. I wouldn't be brainlessly on one side, where I could be totally off-base and persecuted for it and yet still not aloof. There was a murmur or two about ashdfahg before Bookitty posted, but let's be honest -- the discussion was focused on whether or not I'm scum or lying or not or whatever.

That could be reaching a bit. But when you consider that she should have persecuted me for everything -- because if you consider her logic and reasons, she should have attacked me for exactly what she attacked hasdfhag for (that's what my post was about). The fact that she went for someone who wasn't me in this case screams out to me that she's scum. That's my case, and sorry if I didn't state it well enough earlier.

You've claimed, Quagmire, that you make a general practice of not reading your role PMs and apparently of announcing it (but only in one game where you turned out to be scum, which is an odd coincidence). You policy voted someone without reasons, you seemed surprised that people reacted badly to your announcement that you didn't read your role PM (though later you implied that you knew it would attract all sorts of attention to you), and you apparently ALWAYS play like this.

If you always play like this, it's a nulltell. If someone else supports your weird and anti-town behaviour, especially someone whom I feel is a good player, then I'm going to notice that, and wonder why he would make statements that are clearly counter to logic and reason. I'm going to vote him and try to figure out what his motives are.

Do you feel that Hasdgfas is certainly town? What are your reasons for that belief?

Lastly, just because you would do something, it does not follow that I would do the same thing. You didn't read your role PM and announced it to everyone and then acted surprised that this caused a big upset. I wouldn't do something so stupid and against the spirit of the game, so trying to judge my behaviours by yours is not going to get you very far.

[Peers]

I'd just like to list the players that have defended Quagmire:

YagamiLight, MoS, Peers, Yosarian2, and hasdagas

... wait... where the hell did I defend Quagmire? I'm the one who's been saying that we have no proof he actually read his PM, and even if he claims, we don't a reason to believe him... now you say I'm defending him?

You really oughtta work in politics. Reminds me of Karl Rove saying "Congress wanted to send troops into Iraq, the President didn't want to."